Are you on the list? Get Backstage!
June 25, 2022

Interview with The Hics

We had the pleasure of interviewing The Hics over Zoom video.

After rousing fans both old and new with their comeback last year, London-based multi-hyphenate duo The Hics return with their eagerly anticipated new EP HARMINE, out now on EMPIRE.


We had the pleasure of interviewing The Hics over Zoom video.

After rousing fans both old and new with their comeback last year, London-based multi-hyphenate duo The Hics return with their eagerly anticipated new EP HARMINE, out now on EMPIRE.

A five track release conceived during the last 5 years and pieced together during the global pandemic, HARMINE opens with ‘Caught In A Lie’, a deeply personal track first released as a single back in October 2021. The pair describe it as “not knowing what you’ve got until it’s gone.” A similar ethos permeates tracks like ‘Tell Me’, a sombre ballad delivered from the heart; ‘On You’, an ode to overcoming life’s challenges; and ‘Float’, an unmistakably wistful vibe of a song. ‘Reprise’ is the project’s closer, and it’s an intricate piece of nu-soul that ensures things finish on a poignant note.

“The EP is like diary extracts,” The Hics explain. “Tales, reflections and experiences of early-to-mid-20s heartbreak, loss and interpersonal relationships.”

The full EP release follows on from the duo’s official return last year, which came in the form of two staggered single releases in October and November; ‘Caught In A Lie’ and ‘Reprise’. Surrendering to their newfound creativity and channeling this energy through more than one outlet, the duo partnered with fellow creative and friend Spike Silverton to create respective DIY music visuals for both singles, filmed on a mini DV camera that they purchased.

The Hics recently released the music video for the single, “On You”.

A long awaited follow-up to their 2013 debut EP TANGLE, HARMINE is The Hics’ first release since they took an extended hiatus over the last few years. With their artistic journey at a crossroads, The Hics’ musical destiny changed with an unlikely direct message on Twitter. After hearing ‘Cold Air’ while playing a marathon session of Grand Theft Auto V, Dreamville’s Bas instantly fell in love with the duo and reached out in hopes of connecting and creating music. A week of collaboration in London would yield two classic songs on Bas’ critically-acclaimed album Too High To Riot.

These records laid the groundwork for The Hics to enter a new creative space as a duo, as they toured the world with the Dreamville family as a supporting act on the Too High To Riot tour. As The Hics explored and developed their musical passion, they developed a close bond with NYC creative collective The FIENDS.

After years away from music, The Hics have reclaimed their art and have found their voice and crafted a cohesive, timeless piece of work with HARMINE, which kicks off the beginning of their new chapter.

We want to hear from you! Please email

#podcast #interview #bringinbackpod #TheHics #Harmine #NewMusic #zoom

Listen & Subscribe to BiB

Follow our podcast on Instagram and Twitter!

We'd love to see you join our BiB Facebook Group


Hello! It's Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Sam and rocks of the band. The Hicks over zoom video, Sam was born and raised in north London and grew up in a very musical household. His dad is the drummer of a seventies prog rock band from London that did very, very well. He talked about the first time he remembered seeing his dad play. I guess the band went on a hiatus around the time he was born. So his older siblings remembered seeing him play and tour, but he didn't. But then he, you know, he's going down the street in London and he sees this massive sign with his dad's face on it is really, really cool stories about watching his dad who was a drummer, and then taught him how to play drums. 3 (2m 15s): That was his first instrument rocks grew up in Southwest London. She says more central London, but did not come from a musical household, but she did begin singing and writing songs around 11 years old, both salmon rocks attended the same school. That was like from 11 to 18 middle school, ish years. It wasn't technically a arts music school, but they had a very, very successful arts drama and music program out of the school. And that's where Sam and Rox met. They talked about forming the Hicks, the success of the first song they ever released lines having their second song in GTA five. What that was like putting out their first EAP in 2013, they just released their second EAP. 3 (3m 1s): Nine years later, they talk about the tragedy that kind of happened in the midst of those, those past nine years, losing a band member, losing family members, eventually deciding to continue the band in 2017 and recently putting out their new EAP, which is called Hermione. You can watch our interview with rocks and Sam on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK, add bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcast, it would be amazing if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five-star review. 4 (3m 44s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 3 (3m 50s): We're bringing it backwards with the Hicks. Amazing. Again, thank you for doing this I'm Adam, and this is about you, you and your journey and music. And we'll talk about the new EAP as well. 5 (4m 5s): Also, 3 (4m 6s): Of course. So I guess we always start with born and raised and then I'll, I want to find out where the two of you met. So Sam, where were you born and raised? 5 (4m 14s): I was born in north, flooded in Camden and raised in London. 6 (4m 19s): I was born in Southwest London and Pimlico and yeah. 3 (4m 24s): Okay. Right on. Well, okay. Sam, tell me about where, I mean, telling me about growing up in north London and was it like, 5 (4m 31s): I was beautiful, you know, it's like, it's really green up. There's lots of, lots of big parks, square culture, great friends, Austin football club, you know, small passion. Okay. Down the road, come to market as well. It was such a vibrant area to go up in the music and everything 3 (4m 51s): And music and art is big. They're like, how far are we from the city? Are you 5 (4m 54s): Oh, probably like 20 minutes down if the traffic's good too. So, you know. 3 (5m 3s): Okay. And what about music? How did you get into music? 5 (5m 7s): My dad's a trauma and he got a grown up at a young age. He kind of got me into jobs and percussion and yeah. Just always expose me to music and set of my mom actually she's so create a family creative background. 3 (5m 21s): Okay. And was, do you do it professionally or that was just a hobby of his, 5 (5m 25s): Yeah, no, he he's a drummer in a band called Vandergriff generator, delicate old Prague band from the seventies. They just been touring before us actually. So they'd be asked to go down there, like 75, you know? So 3 (5m 38s): That's amazing. So you grew up like literally around music, your whole life. 5 (5m 43s): Yeah. But yeah, it's like the, it was always around who is. 3 (5m 47s): And did you go on tour with them at all? Or do you remember seeing them all the time or like live or anything like that? 5 (5m 52s): Yeah, like, so they they'd split up when I was born, but my older siblings had had that experience, but I never really knew her by it as a kid. So I remember he was like, yo, we're having a reunion. And about 2005, I just thought they were like going to be abandoned a pub somewhere. And they were playing like the Royal festival hall and on the south bank. And that was like his face on a Banno. And I was at people with that much on movies. I was like, what's going on? Like, where's the post that I had no idea. Honestly, man, it was weird. 3 (6m 27s): So you didn't even like care to like look into that records out or Google the band or anything? 5 (6m 32s): Well, I, there was a few images from, you know, like long hair baited face. He's just like a bookies and loves to swim. Like he, you know, he doesn't wear the leather jackets and have the crazy beds anymore. Yeah. I had no idea, honestly, man. 3 (6m 47s): Wow. So you, you started off on drums then? 5 (6m 50s): Yeah. John Johnson. Johnson percussion is my background and that's yeah, that's my primary instrument actually. 3 (6m 57s): Okay. And then when did you like, cause in the, in the band you've played keys, right? 5 (7m 4s): Yeah. So the Hicks is named after the word Hickory for drumsticks originally made by me and my mate, Jay could be able two dramas. So it kind of like the fun element to it. Cause we used to like combine two beats ideas or two trombones perspective to, to attract. But yeah, in the Hicks I sing accompany works on and I'll play keys or guitar wherever. 3 (7m 25s): Oh, okay, cool. So when did you start learning those instruments? Is that something you just picked up along the way? 5 (7m 30s): Yeah, like I think me and Roxanne we'll get into this later, but me and Roxanne went to the same school was that Pimlico he had a music course. And it was a requirement that you had to pick up that free instruments. So everyone had to learn keys to a good level. You were to have to sing in the choir and then you could pick like a solo instrument. Like I have a wind brass woodwind, like strings and I think I did a bit of bass of, 3 (8m 5s): Well, it was that a college or elementary. W what year were you going to that school? I quit 6 (8m 12s): That's ages 11 to 18. 3 (8m 15s): Wow. 5 (8m 18s): Yay. 3 (8m 18s): Like high school. That's incredible. Okay. So you obviously met there in school then. So Roxanne, where were you born and raised in south? South London. Is that what you said? 6 (8m 28s): Well, really it's like central London because it's the river, but it's considered Southwest. Although people that are actually from south would find that offensive consist, basically not 3 (8m 39s): The 5 (8m 39s): Tool. 6 (8m 39s): It's just not cool. Like it's not really, it's very quiet. It doesn't really have much of an identity, but it's where we went to school. So I grew up like right around the corner. 3 (8m 49s): Oh, interesting. Was this a school that you both had to like apply to get in was like an art school? 6 (8m 55s): No, but no, it wasn't. It was just, there was a speciality. If there was a speciality in music that you had to audition for the sound audition for, to get in, 3 (9m 8s): You didn't have to audition 6 (9m 9s): And I didn't have to, 5 (9m 10s): No. Sam was in the catchment area. So this was like the regular 6 (9m 14s): School. I didn't have to audition for the special. Oh 5 (9m 16s): Yeah. Nice. She was so good that they were like, yeah, come through. 3 (9m 19s): Oh really? 5 (9m 20s): Yeah. I had to, like, I had to like tie it up with a back in track and all this shit 6 (9m 23s): 'cause I was patched to fire, to audition. And my mum was like, they've already said that they do it. Like they'd say yes, just audition because you have to. And I was like, no, they might say no. And say it, they would just offer for fuck sake. Just like, just let her do it. So I was only 11, so like, I wasn't like 18 being perfect. 3 (9m 44s): What did you, what did you play? Like what was the first instrument you learned 6 (9m 48s): Piano and then moved on to guitar and then kind of just stayed on guitar. 3 (9m 53s): Is that what you were, you know, put into the program for? Was it guitar? 6 (9m 57s): No, it was singing, but I did outside lessons on instruments as well. 3 (10m 1s): Okay. So they just knew that you're a great singer. The school did 6 (10m 7s): Writing and singing basically. I've been Sam. Great. 5 (10m 12s): We have an example. Yeah. So that was a fee. I was abused young girl. And so we'd have this Christmas concert in the local church on the corner every year. Like family, friends who come down and every like eight each department in the music course would perform a piece. Like the percussion department would do signing like the jazz band multi-site and then Roxanne would have her own slot to like perform a few of her songs. And everyone was at all sounds going to sing a song. You're like, I don't know if you clocked out at the time. But from our perspective, everyone was like, oh, this person's wavier vocals. So like, by the time that me and Jacob, well who's producing the drama that we started picks with when we were like, yeah, let's get Roxanne by when she was like, yes, we were like, yes, we've got the premier league vocalist to come on board. 5 (10m 60s): You know? I mean, she was, she was legendary. I think so. 3 (11m 3s): Wow. So you, 6 (11m 7s): You 3 (11m 9s): Were writing your own songs, obviously I'm performing them. Yeah. When did you start doing that? 6 (11m 14s): I started writing when I was 11. And just kind of the performance at school all the time. 3 (11m 22s): Yeah. Did you come from a musical household as well? 6 (11m 25s): No, not really. No. I grew up being like a dancer, so I dance ballet from the age of like two to 14 and was around music all the time. So I think that being in studios, like dance studios, my mom's a city teacher. Like I had loads of different genres around me were very young age. And so I kind of picked up a lot, but I never really thought of myself as a musician. I always wanted to be like an actor or a dancer. 3 (11m 53s): Interesting. But what, what drew you to writing songs? 6 (11m 57s): I think it's just a way of journaling. It was kind of just a different way of expressing myself like that. 3 (12m 9s): Well, you said that you were like kind of a shy kid wouldn't you didn't want to audition. You thought you weren't going to get in. Was it must have been difficult then to show your songs to people and then obviously you were playing them in these like Christmas recital things. 6 (12m 22s): Yeah, definitely. I mean the first three years of writing music, I never showed it, but once I got to 16, like Christmas concert, so Sam said I would be up there singing what I think now is quite explicit concert. Like content for like young people. 3 (12m 40s): Yeah. 5 (12m 41s): Oh my God. 3 (12m 43s): Oh, wow. And especially at a Christmas concert, they just let it roll. Oh, that's awesome. So it wasn't like you're going out there singing jingle bells or like something like that. It was like deep songs. Oh man. Do you have, have you, do you have any recordings of those or any, 6 (13m 3s): I think you might be able to find 5 (13m 5s): Someone on YouTube 3 (13m 7s): A man. Not because I just want to hear the song lyrics. That's it? That's so funny. Okay. Well then obviously you guys have known each other for a while. Sam, you said you're two years younger than, than Roxanne. And so when did your guys' musical like relationships start? Like, did you start playing with each other pretty quickly? Or 5 (13m 29s): I think like me and Roxanne always knew each other freedom music course, the music course, our school was combined everyone across all years. So it wasn't separated by it. So if you were in a certain department, you had to play that part with someone that was, might be five or six years older than you, you just have to catch up basically. And so we would go and he's like socials and we'd go on these like little tours around the, in Europe. Like we went to Prague for one of them and I was hilarious. Like, 3 (14m 1s): Tell me about that. Why was it funny? 5 (14m 3s): <inaudible> and her age group were considered to be the oldest. They were like, given the what'd you call them prefects acid, the snitches. So in Prague, the drinking age is really young. So we were like 40. I was at 14 at that time. And you know, our mission was to go out and find they could take back to the hotel room. And so my, my friendship really fast on drinks, you know, use that on oyster color bus pass thing to convince the shopkeeper that it was ID. So we've got like tons of beers and stuff to get back to the hotel. Then the prefect year Roxanne and her lot came knocking on the door or you can't be black. 5 (14m 48s): They're having too much fun. Basically. They went and told the teachers, Jack Tula booze, and then boozed up on it the whole night downstairs in the lobby Jaimee, like what? It was amazing. And we performing some, we played the, like all the cathedrals and sang there. And it was such a mad experience because just to give you a bit of context, this school that we went to, it was like, is it's it's a combo. It was a comprehensive school. So it wasn't private. You don't pay any tuition fees. It was open to anyone like Mo the majority of the school was for like some of the roughest kids across north and south west and east London. And yet they had this small department for music and drama where it was like a government funded program where they had some of the best tuition ship coming through. 5 (15m 38s): And some of the people that have come out of that department, I mean, roots maneuver was one of the original ones to come up. You've had LaRue Jackson. She came up him. Nilofer janya Thomas sang star. Who's in game of Thrones. I think he's the kid that says into the Raven. Sure. He was like my people. So there was always, there was always a, such a, is that you'd go in, learn some like classical music, and then you go out for a punch up to, I mean, try not to get stabbed or somebody, you know, it's the essence of life basically. 3 (16m 18s): Sure. Wow. Well, that's, that's, I mean, that's an interesting school. It sounds like. I mean, to have that diverse of a, of a class. Sure. So then from, from there, what did you guys start playing together as like a band? Or when did you, was the Hicks the first band you had or, or no, 5 (16m 41s): I I've been me and Roxanne at work in different areas of the industry is at a session workers, Roxanna Dunback and vocals. I'd done sessions drumming. And then I wanted to start writing music and performing it at like, kind of, I'd been a John mine. I wanted to try to compose in. So me and Jacob was asked Roxanne to John Poland and was like, look, Sam's interested in singing and expanding his somewhere and ideas. And Roxanne was like, yeah, I'll come through. And I think if you want to say, you're a bit about like electronic music at the time and 6 (17m 18s): Oh yeah. Well, I was in the band at the time and I kind of wanted to move on to like a more synthetic sound, make more electronic drums and stuff like that. And the reaction I got from that, wasn't a positive one. And then basically like three weeks later, Jacob called me asking me if I wanted to join the hex. And I was just like, absolutely because me and Jacob have very similar tastes in music. And at the time we'd been listening to like a lot of flying Lotus and like, 7 (17m 50s): Yeah, 5 (17m 51s): It was an exciting, it was an exciting time in, in, in London for sure, with electronic music. 3 (17m 57s): Right. 5 (17m 58s): So, so what's came around. Hello? Hello. It was demo that I'd written on guitar. And I remember being in Jacob's living room and I was like, I'd never really sung before. And I've written like an eight bar phrase and Roxanne immediately harmonized on it. And Jacob was like, oh, like, he's like, you sound out of tune is how Sam rock sounds fire, but the way in which you guys sit with each other weirdly works really well. And like, and we may, once we kind of had that kind of light bulb moment too, where would I ask you? It sounds quite interesting. So that was it from there, you know, we, we brought the other members in and we did, we wrote Alliance together, which was our first song. 5 (18m 43s): And then from there, I was, it was very quick into, into that atmosphere to, and it's suddenly like, you know, existing in some kind of official band or something. Cause that originally Lyons was a 30 day free download on SoundCloud. And then it just had a bit of a moment on sound card and blew up a little bit. 3 (19m 2s): Oh, okay. So that's how it all really started with just the first song you guys had ever put out. 5 (19m 8s): Yeah. 3 (19m 9s): Wow. Wow. So you did like a free download on, on SoundCloud and then how do people find it? I mean, SoundCloud's obviously a massive website. 5 (19m 19s): Yeah. I think the, I think there was a link with Josh Peterson, radio six and he played it a few times and it was obviously like six and a half minutes or something long. It's not radio friendly at all. He played like the whole thing. And I remember being like, we got there in the end and he included that on Browns with bubble is nine, which was a compilation album that he, that he put out. And I think at the time, highest co he just dropped Nakamura. And there was a few other tracks on there, like from, from, oh, it's not a massive, like, you know, at the time we're just bumbling around in our universe. 5 (20m 4s): And I think that was a key moment for us because his reach into, into that audience internationally is in his area. So respected. So it was because of jaws as well that our music was put on grand theft auto five. 3 (20m 20s): Oh really? 5 (20m 21s): Yeah. Yeah. 3 (20m 23s): That's funny. My son knows you, you guys just through that because of that game and he's, he's 14. So he's like, I mean, that game came out. What like 2013 or something? 2012 or 2013. I mean, I remember when it came out, he wasn't even, I mean, he was such an infant at this point in time. And then like now he, him and his friends are like in high school or about to be in high school. So they play it. Cause that's the, that game is still relevant to this day. It's insane. And then I play with him, but I don't really like, I'll just grab the controller and play it. Like if he's like playing, but I don't, I know like game it hard. Like he does, like, he goes online and plays with his friends and they do the heist and all that. 5 (21m 5s): But it's 3 (21m 5s): Yeah, it's crazy the fact that they've, they update it. Right. So the graphics look awesome. And just the world is so huge in that game. It blows my mind. 5 (21m 17s): Yeah. It's not something like, I grew up playing, you know, the original ones, the one same hair, but so like YC, that GTA was always like, do you know the game started? 3 (21m 32s): I, yeah, like when vice city came out, I'm like, oh, like this, it was like a game changer. And that, cause then it was more like, you know, three D ish, Hey buddy. San Andreas was sick. And from there, I mean to see the fact that that game is still one of the most popular games on the planet. And it came out nearly 10 years ago. 5 (21m 54s): Yeah. It's not so much. It's like Roxanne's younger cousin. Ben was, he recently got it. And he's like, yo, like your son, he was like, come on Lima, let's play this. Let's do some highest together. Like during the lockdown. And it was so jokes, he's like, show me this mad car that he's made. And, and he's like, let's try and find your song on a radio. 3 (22m 18s): That's so cool. Like that must've been, I mean, with the hyperlight that game and the success of that game was that is that still has to be something that just so crazy for you guys to think about like your, that your song is like literally in that game. 6 (22m 32s): Yeah, definitely. Especially for me, the only ever really played that game. 3 (22m 37s): Okay. So that was really the only video game you ever got into. 6 (22m 41s): Yeah. So it's really special for me to have the only game that I've liked on. Sorry, not the, yeah. My song on the only game I've liked. There we go. I got it. 3 (22m 50s): What was that moment, like getting told that you're on grand and Nevada, where they were interested in putting your song in that? 6 (22m 56s): I think we all probably just like screamed and stuff like that. Sick. Like, yeah. 5 (23m 5s): I remember like originally I think he got like post to us that it was going to be part of a playlist that Jarvis was putting together. And I think he thought that too, because I think flying Lotus was in charge of like putting together a lot of music for that game. 3 (23m 23s): Really 5 (23m 25s): Giles obviously would worldwide FM, he's got tons of ice as well on Brownswood himself. And I don't even think that he realized the impact that, that, that playlist, 6 (23m 36s): He said, like if I had known I would have put my own art. 5 (23m 39s): Yeah, yeah. Did as a solid cause that sure. That was a mad moment. 3 (23m 48s): That's so funny. He didn't realize that. I mean, I guess it's, I mean, the fact that that game is still so huge. There's no, there's no like real, I get it. The comparison doesn't even matter. But like now if an artist got on like on fortnight or one of those games, it's like, that's kind of like a similar situation where it's like, oh my gosh. And like my songs on like the Fortnite radio station or whatever in the car, but like GTA is not only is it a cooler flax, but like the fact that that was so long ago and it's still like relevant to this day is crazy. 5 (24m 18s): I think the interesting thing as well about GTA is that you can actually spend quite a long time listening to music in that game. Like I've, I've played that game, like lean up, just driving around for hours, just not concentrating. And it's more just of like a chill experience. Whereas like there's not many other games where you get to listen to music for start to finish. You know, like if you're in FIFO, it's in the title menu, if you're in Fortnite, it's for 10 seconds before you get like RPG or site right. 3 (24m 47s): Or jump out of the thing or yeah, 5 (24m 49s): Exactly. It's like people could actually had a moment to absorb your tune right. In that, and that radio station that even now listening back to it, there's some fantastic stuff on it. 6 (24m 59s): It will still like say it in comments on like YouTube videos saying stuff like, oh, I'm driving down like PCH 5 (25m 7s): GTA 6 (25m 9s): Seem to call that there's a sunset stuff like that. 5 (25m 12s): But it's like, someone's made like a music video on YouTube of like their character from the cinematic mode in the game, like to this song as well. 3 (25m 20s): That's cool. That's really cool. 5 (25m 22s): The main culture around it was hilarious. 3 (25m 26s): Well, once that kind of happens is that when people, I mean, that was your second single right. That made it on to cold air was the second record. It wasn't lines that's on, on the game. So like, so lines does really well. And then what you put out your next song to kind of follow that up. And then it also does really well. Like they pick it up for, for, for radio six and everything as well. Like how does it go from lines to the next song? 5 (25m 51s): I think we had lines out with jaws. Jaws really liked it. And he really liked what we were doing. I think we said to radio six and he says the jobs that we would love to give you, like first play on air, you know, on the kind of his contribution to the first release that we had. So we went and sat down with him. We did an interview with him and, and he spanked called again. And I think it was just like a fluke really, but was mad. Yeah. 8 (26m 21s): Here's to the great American settlers, the millions of you who settled for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills. Of course there is something else you could do. If you got something to say, start a podcast, which recur from iHeart and unleash your creative freedom, maybe even earn enough money to one day. Tell your old boss a I'm no settler. I'm an Explorer. S P R E K E R a salon over today. 3 (26m 52s): Wow. And then you guys put out your first EAP in the same year. 2013. 5 (26m 57s): Yeah. 3 (26m 58s): Okay. Tell me about tangle and real quick on that too. I mean, having the hype of those two songs, did you get signed to a, like we're we're managers and labels and, and people are coming to you at this point prior to releasing the EAP? 6 (27m 13s): Yeah. Yeah. Loads, loads of managers, loads of Ana, lots of labels. And we went with ATC, which I think he used to manage Radiohead and a few others. I can't really remember. 3 (27m 31s): Yeah. That must've been a wild time too though, to not only have your songs, two songs doing so well, but now you have all these industry folk coming out and being like, Hey, like what are you? You know, what do you guys got going on? 6 (27m 42s): Yeah. It was very overwhelming and not expected at all, but 5 (27m 50s): I mean, it was a lot of like, it's like speed dating. I mean, like, you're not sure if you're interviewing them or they're interviewing you and it's like, you know, 3 (27m 59s): Right. Yeah. Like, am I answering these questions in hopes that they offered me a deal? Or are they asking questions and hopes that we accept deal that they already have kind of on the table? 5 (28m 10s): Yeah, exactly. And interesting. In the end, we, we, we were co managed by these guys called Joslin, Johnny that did our first CP run with us and they were, they were really cool actually. Like they, I think they, they knew the pocket that we could exist in. I think the other thing though, areas that we disagreed on in terms of direction and sound, but they help keep that mysticism around us at the time, I think, which helped our gain momentum in a way that maybe we didn't know, because I say that a lot now. And in interviews, like we were able to just exist as a logo for like four years and you know what I mean? 5 (28m 52s): And a lot of people like that, we weren't necessarily interested in being like the face of anything. You know what I mean? 3 (28m 59s): Sure. And where are you not doing like live shows? Was it all just kind of recorded? 5 (29m 4s): No, we were, but like sometimes I remember people would sign up and be like, art didn't even know what you guys looked like or no press pose. Yeah. It would just all be like some 3 (29m 18s): There's like mystery behind you guys. 5 (29m 20s): Yeah. I don't think I helped. 3 (29m 24s): Wow. Okay. So then you put your first EPO and you weren't, but you were touring and playing live and, and doing that, like, you know, you were participating in that as well. And as far as like the bandwidth. 5 (29m 36s): Yeah. I think we, we did, we had one headline show. No, we had one support show in east London. I felt really bad for that headline band. Cause like everybody. Yeah. Like it was it's one of them school of rock moments, but it was a great gig. Well, I think they were called plant plants from, from what I remember, because it was as if you look so new to you, I think it's on the back. I don't remember much, but I remember stuff like that. 3 (30m 9s): They're they're banners behind you. Cause they're going to 5 (30m 13s): Someone else, a man. And we were a nightmare because we had like no sound engineer and we had like five laptops. Yeah. You had your own table. We used to run your, you had two mikes each. And we used the one, one of them for a guitar pedal. And we didn't, we didn't bring our own engineer at all. Like, you know, we all still had regular jobs. So we turn up to these little venues and it'd be like some pissed off dude. And they're like, yo man, we work with, there's like six of us. We've all got a laptop. Like what, where do you want to start? And you'd be like, mate, I've only got four channels and there'll be like 20 minutes. 5 (30m 54s): Would you want to do? Oh man, it was chaos. Well, no now everyone's got their little able to sell her looks so clean and well presented. But if you look off first it's on YouTube things like headline or so I think gold dust, I think was the name of the night. It just looks chaos 3 (31m 18s): Years ago. Like people like having a laptop and showing up to a venue, wasn't like all I'm sure. Obviously it wasn't as what is now, but even then I'm sure it wasn't a whole like people weren't doing a lot of that. 5 (31m 33s): No, I think it was a weird, I hate the aesthetic of a laptop on stage personally. Like I think it's something that I've, we've always bowed with. Like where do you put it? Do you decorate it? Do you put like a sticker on it that says like the Hicks? Or like, because for like, you know, I think people audiences get it now more like what someone's actually doing, but for that time, right. You just open the laptop, you could just be spinning a backing track and pretending to twist shit Jeremy, but, 3 (32m 6s): Right, right. And I think that people would always assume that when the, when the laptop thing first started, it was like, oh, he's probably just pushing, play and standing there. And it's like, well, no, there's like a million things happening at that moment. So that's funny that you had a desk like that. That's the way to do it though. Right? Like show up, like you're at work. You just have some desk 5 (32m 29s): <inaudible>, you know, those that you see, like granny's carrying their groceries. 3 (32m 43s): Oh yeah. 5 (32m 44s): I would have, I still have one of those. So my mom would let me one and I'll put like a keyboard to key either two TEDS in a beanbag. So I didn't get rained on and we jump on the train. It was beautiful, man. 3 (32m 58s): Well, it's been a handful of year up the years, obviously since that, that first EAP came out now we're like nine years in later. And you have your second EAP, like tell me about this. Why did the band, was the band always still together within these nine years? Like what did you guys have going on? 5 (33m 25s): It's weird. Like, so we started, we started me, Jacob works and then we had Jordan, let me have Matt David. We sadly lost David in 2014. And after that personally in the group, we lost family members as well to illness, 3 (33m 45s): Society 5 (33m 46s): Through such a quick timeframe as well. It was a space of about a year and it, I think we will so young at the time. And I think it was such a traumatic experience for us, all that we all paralyzed by it in a way. And, and, and didn't know how to process what, you know, losing Obama and then losing family members. And it was, it was probably the toughest, toughest period of my life. To be honest, 3 (34m 15s): I can't even imagine, especially somebody that you, you know, a band member, like probably like a brother to you all. 5 (34m 21s): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's beautiful that you can, Dave is sax solo that you heard the underlines still lives on today and everyone could still be a part of that and his family. We can still have connection to that and see that that song stops. That's the biggest stream song that we have on, on Spotify. And that's a beautiful moment for them. And I think during that period, it was unclear where, what we were going to do or where we were going to like how we were going to function or whatever. And we just did it. We didn't function in order to sleep. And 6 (35m 0s): Yeah, I don't think any of us really processed the grief that we were so young that we, and there were like four people. So it's very difficult to even acknowledge how you feel when you're that young, especially when you don't really know how to communicate your grief to people yet, if you haven't experienced those before. So we're all kind of existing in this bubble and not really being honest about the fact that we weren't doing so well. So it kind of broke apart, I think, because of that, because we didn't have the words to communicate properly. 3 (35m 40s): Yeah. I, I couldn't even imagine. I mean, that has to be, not only do you lose your band member, you're saying utilize lost family members in the same time period. It's like, yeah, it sounds like a lot, a lot to process and yeah. And everyone deals with grief and loss differently and in a band dynamic that would be very, very hard to, to handle. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm very sorry about that. 5 (36m 4s): No, I mean, you know, I think it's part of, it's part of explaining to people like where the hell have you been kind of thing? And it's like, there's genuine reason for it. 3 (36m 15s): Right, right, 5 (36m 15s): Right. It's like, 6 (36m 18s): And then I think LA after David died basis left, cause he wanted to do a PhD. So he left to do that 5 (36m 28s): Smart, smart man. 3 (36m 30s): Well, yeah. I mean, I guess it would be if you're, you know, you lose a member and you may be, you just, it's too traumatic to even kind of think about playing these songs or it's the way people, obviously people process stuff differently, but maybe the E there's could be a lot of stuff, I mean in there, but yeah. I could see how that would happen with members leaving or yeah. 5 (36m 53s): Yeah. So obviously, you know, we, we still exist as a Hicks and we still work closely alongside Jacob Welsh. Who's a producer now for a bunch of buyers and Jordan has, has his solo career as geo. You should definitely go check him out. And I think Matt, hadn't spoken to Mike in a minute, to be honest, where are you mate? But yeah, like we're, we're all, we're all, you know, we're all still doing bits and pieces and, and getting, getting all my life to, 3 (37m 28s): When did you decide to, to, you know, start writing again, at least the two of you 6 (37m 37s): 2017? I think we had that year where we went on tour in America with bars as of Dreamville and after kind of getting, you know, going to a different country that neither of us had been to before and like traveling around the whole of the states, having these experiences that we've never had before, it kind of injected a new lease of life into us, I think in terms of being able to write as well about different experiences. And that is when we came home in 2017. Yeah. We just started writing from there. Really? 5 (38m 14s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think it felt at the time it felt right by the timing of it. We had a body of music and we'd been on and off working with bars in the states going back and forth. And I think like being injected a new lease of life into, into what could, what could be for us, you know, as Y as an, as producers. And I think they are somewhat unsure whether to like, you know, continue as the Hicks or wherever to just be background writers or whatever. But I think we felt as though we listened, we spoke to a lot of people and, you know, we had, we thought is that it was good memories in what we started. 5 (38m 60s): And it's a shame that I couldn't continue to. I mean, like I found base, like they were on our case, man. I love them and thank them for it. They were like, where are you like this ain't good enough to, I mean, some of the comments now are hilarious. There'll be like, love this EAP guys. Only going to be another eight years till the next one kind of, but like I love, you know, I mean, like the they're so supportive. Yeah. 6 (39m 29s): I think it's good that like really, I feel anyway that like in essence, the Hicks, it's still the hex because Simon Jacobs star at it and they are still very much like a part of that. That's like, I could leave. Do you, I mean, as long as they're still doing it, but it's always going to be the Hicks because of them. If 3 (39m 53s): Yeah. I see what you're saying with like, 5 (39m 56s): Yeah. 3 (39m 60s): Well with this new EAP where these songs that you had started in 2017 or did some of those come out guard, you know, where all these newer recordings, 6 (40m 14s): 20 17, 20 18, 5 (40m 18s): The only one that's old is how is, tell me, tell me, tell me was a demo that I'd written in 2014 And 20 15, 20 15. And it originally sounded super different. Like had like live drums. And it sounded like an, almost like a like war paint, live high energy, like live drum song. And then we rediscovered it with Jacob and the light strip, those dramas back and me and Jacob rocks just spent a day or two tweaking it and replacing all the drums with like little cork Volcker, beat staff and hello the form of it and reopened it and finished that record. 5 (41m 1s): That's what told me, I think, caught in the lie calling the lie was a loop that I'd written, that stayed on our desktop for years, that would rocks would open it. I would open it occasionally and we'd listened to like 16 seconds or whatever. And then be like, that would sound good. One day for an ID. Never did anything with it. I could never write anything to it. And then you wrote the first line fire. 6 (41m 34s): Yeah. 5 (41m 36s): I 6 (41m 36s): Stayed good. That parks, like from 2017 to the end of 2019 was really us kind of figuring out how we work. Cause it too. And like the way that we write and kind of working around each other, cause we haven't really written, just asked you before. And so it was a lot of like love long nights and a lot of like, I don't like that word. Let's try and find a different word for like an hour. And we're very, we write very differently. So it was like a lot of like balance had to be created and it took two years to do it 3 (42m 18s): Well then a pandemic kids. Right. I mean, so then how does the, did you have a majority of the songs finished by 2019 and then the pandemic just wrecked everything. Right. 6 (42m 29s): I love the songs were finished. They were master mixed and yeah. Then the pandemic hit. 5 (42m 36s): I had more hair in the EAP cover check the EAP cover. We've got, 3 (42m 41s): Yeah, I have it here. 5 (42m 44s): Check the chiropractor. 3 (42m 46s): Oh yeah, you do. Yeah. You bet. 5 (42m 49s): That's what you call life 6 (42m 50s): Three years younger than we are now. And, 3 (42m 53s): And he had sunglasses on. Totally. Yeah, it does totally different. That's so funny. So during the pandemic then, or during the last couple of years, was it just holding onto the record and waiting and hopes that the world opened up at some point? Like what was the game plan? Then 6 (43m 15s): We use that time to make music videos. 3 (43m 18s): Okay. 6 (43m 19s): And we made most of our content during the pandemic, like music videos are videos working with artists who were stuck indoors as well and wanted to create during that time we designed all of our maps during that time where the graphic designer called Joe Dow and yeah, it was actually really, it was really cool. Cause we were still working like creatively with people from all different parts of the world. 3 (43m 47s): Yeah. It's still kind of building the, the, the, yeah. The project in a sense, but the music is done. So it's like bad parts done. Let's just do the creative, you know, visuals 6 (43m 59s): Exactly. 5 (44m 0s): Very helpful. I don't think we were, we were trying to find a home for it at the time. Like we managed by the fiends and they've got some great relationships with people in the U S and we were lucky enough to have them find a partner as a distribution partner with the empire. So I think like we would totally down to release it independently and it is released independently. We have a licensing agreement. It's not a record deal, but it's, it was super like, what's the words. If I like a miracle moment to learn that release kind of situation with empire, because it was at a time where everything was so uncertain, you know, the cost of doing anything. 5 (44m 46s): Like it's just ridiculous. So just having that little bit of support and background, like with professionalism of all of them guys being like, this is how you can do it. You can drop these projects with these fires and we'll put you in contact with these guys. And, you know, during a time of uncertainty, it really helped be the momentum behind this release. And I don't think we would have, it would have been as successful without that tool. It would have been like a SoundCloud thing or a YouTube thing. Like, Hey, we're back. But you know, apart from that, it wouldn't have had that. We didn't have the videos that we did, like on a mini DV camera. 3 (45m 27s): Oh, wow. 5 (45m 28s): Yeah. In my living room like 3 (45m 31s): Mini DV camera, man, I had one of those for skateboarding. What did you have to do? Like watch it in real time to put it into the computer and everything. Oh man. You had to lie. I remember that. That's cool that you're able to find like tapes for those like anymore. And I mean, what's, that's so crazy. Are mini DV still like really? I mean, I just haven't, I guess digital is the way now. I haven't really looked too much into it. 6 (45m 58s): I think they are, but I do see like young people on Tik TOK kind of cooling them. What do they call it? Like retro how offensive? Because it was only 15 years ago. 3 (46m 8s): Right? Retro is like the camera, or even like, if you're talking retro video cameras, how about the one that was like, you held it and it recorded directly onto the VHS tape. Like that to me is, is retro, not a mini DV camera that like the, you know, Sony, what was it called? The X 2000 or something like that. It was like five grand when it came out. Oh, that's what you have. 5 (46m 36s): No, no, no. I said that sounds right. But we have, we have, we have, we started with a JVC while I'm on-call farm and the charity shop and it looks sick, but it would just break all the time. So we found one on eBay, Panasonic 3 (46m 54s): With the handle. 5 (46m 55s): No slides. It's like think like Blair witch, but like, 3 (46m 59s): I mean, yeah. The VX 2000 is one I'm thinking of, let me see if I just cause I'm Googling it right now. 5 (47m 6s): So the mini DV tapes, I like smaller than the Palm of my hands. I think you're thinking of like the VHS ones that the skaters you see is right. That they would hold like that. 3 (47m 14s): Yeah. Those were the little tapes, the little, little tapes there was high eight. And then there was like the little one isn't that many DV, like a little tape. Yeah. Like when the Sony VX 2000 came out, like had the thing and it has the microphone on the, like on the handle. You remember that? I just like, I'm telling you when they first came out, like in, I don't know, 99 or whatever it was, they were like five grand or like between 2,500 and like five grand. And I just, I'm just curious, I just looked it up right now. You can buy one right now on eBay for 180 bucks, 5 (47m 57s): Dude. They're like the new soup too. I mean, yeah. So we found this like great relationship with the soup, sorry with the mini DV, where once you stock up on a tripod and you found like a frame that you liked and you accepted the square crop format, it became, it became wavy. Like it looked like film in a way. Wow. 6 (48m 21s): We had to temporary all of our ideas. Cause like, obviously you kind of your mind jumps to like, okay, I'm not doing it digitally, but like technically it's filmed. So you keep thinking of all these like five millimeters scenarios in your mind. You're like, oh, that looks so good. And you do it on a mini DV. And it just looks like shit. Someone's birthday being 5 (48m 44s): Terrible, 6 (48m 46s): Quite a long time to like, just get simple yet effective ideas for them to look good. 5 (48m 53s): The court and the live music video. Yeah. It's so funny. Right? So my housemate's by, he's a videographer, the BI he's like we, and him and Roxanne will go through tons of wide. There's like all the time, what can we do? What can we do? And so we did three videos together where we did, we did tell me we did requires. So for the calling the live ones, you get a chance to see that one that's in my living room. And we sold in a one-take cause we wanted to make it as one take as possible. So sparks on lighting and with a light bar in his hand. And I'm on the blinds in the corner of the room doing this, you can see the blinds, but in the course is guy like that. 5 (49m 33s): I like spice. It's got this wicked old TV, Sony TV. So he was like, it'd be great if we could put Sam on the TV, like playing keys. So I was on the TV at the same light in the same take and then Roxanne hits it and then like gets taken into that TV world. And then, and then the car, the one we did for a prize. Yeah. We got like these cheap sticker soccer things for the camera marks. 6 (50m 1s): Yeah. It was like the middle of COVID. So we didn't really want to like be spitting everywhere. So I had to go to boot and like I was in boots, which is like a pharmacy and I wanted to get fake eyelashes, lipstick and lube, like to stick it onto the windows. And the woman, when I went to pay, looked at me like, what are you doing? Realized till I got there. I was like, ah, this is 5 (50m 30s): <inaudible> like, I went over the speed bumps did like three laps of London at night and none of them fell off, but like three angles outside, inside, like it was mad. 3 (50m 46s): That's amazing. Well, I appreciate the, both of you doing this today. This has been so fun. And I have one more quick question. I want to know if you have a need advice for aspiring artists, 6 (50m 60s): Right? All the time. Like every day, do it as much as you can write about anything, even like a door and like I'd say perform as much as possible and get on Tik TOK and go on there and show people your talent.