Interview with Sondre Lerche

Hello! It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Sandra layer K over zoom video, Sandra was born and raised in Norway, and he talks about how he got into music was always very interested in listening to music, passionate about it and asked his mom for a guitar. When he was eight years old, he ended up getting a guitar and started taking lessons pretty early on. Sandra has three older siblings, but his oldest sister worked in a bunch of different clubs that were hosting different open mic nights. 4 (1m 56s): And that's how he got in and started playing his first shows and pertinent people. He talked about getting signed to Virgin records fairly early on the massive success of his first album touring the world. At 19 years old, he eventually moved to New York city. We talk about that, writing the score for the film with Steve Krell and Dan cook called Dan in real life and his experience writing that score, being able to actually be on set, writing the songs as the film was actually being shot. He talks about his quote unquote divorce album and how that was a huge turning point in his career. The trilogy of records he's released, please pleasure, and patients moving from Los Angeles to back to Norway, to record and write this new record called avatars of love, which is the first album that he's written a song recorded it. 4 (2m 49s): And then that was done. He's done this for this album. It's a double record. And he wrote and recorded it in just one year. So he talks all about his new record, avatars of love. You can watch our interview with Sandra on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcasts, it'd be amazing if you follow suit as well. And if you have time, hook us up with a five-star review, 5 (3m 23s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 4 (3m 29s): We're bringing it backwards with Sandra Larky. This is about you and your journey and music. And we'll talk about the new record as well. 6 (3m 36s): That's great. 4 (3m 37s): Amazing, amazing. So I did read born and raised in Norway, but then you moved to the states for awhile. And now are you back in Norway? 6 (3m 48s): Yeah, I guess I, I have been, I have been mostly for the, yeah, for the last two years, I guess, because of the pandemic. I, I went home and I ended up staying here a while, but I'm going back to America now for, for the tour and I still keep a place in Los Angeles. So I'm trying to figure out where I live 4 (4m 12s): Right on. Well, tell me about growing up in Norway. 6 (4m 17s): Yeah, man. It's I grew up I'm the youngest of, of three or I'm the, no, I'm the youngest of four, but I'm the, yeah, I'm the fourth. Got it. And there's three ahead of me. Yeah. I, I think I was supposed to save the marriage of my mom and dad, but I don't think I succeeded in that. 4 (4m 42s): They got, 6 (4m 43s): They got divorced when I was like five. And so I lived with my mom for the first, you know, first 12 years of my life. And then, and then I, and then I moved to live with my dad in the city, and that was a big shift. Like I grew up in the suburbs and then I moved to the city to live with my dad. And at this point I was playing music. I was trying to write songs. And when I moved to the city, I started playing in bands also, but I quickly realized I really enjoyed, you know, I enjoyed playing with people, but I really, really enjoyed the alone time of, of just sitting obsessively, writing songs on my own. 6 (5m 28s): I could do that just for hours and days. And, and, and that's what I did really. And I spent most of my teens just trying to, trying to write songs on my own and, and, and, and, you know, plugging up the courage to go on stage and performing and scratching that itch as well, which I could do in the city because my, my, my oldest sister, she, she worked at all these sort of cool clubs where they had open mic nights, even though I was too, too young to get in. I, I, she would like vouch for me and get me in. And, and that was sort of my first experience performing my own songs, but also, you know, cover songs and just getting, getting into it really. 6 (6m 14s): So that was exciting 4 (6m 16s): For sure. For sure. Well, anyone else in your family musical, or were you the only one that kind of was passionate about it? 6 (6m 24s): I, it was definitely sort of my passion and my identity in many ways. I was always encouraged to play and to, to listen, you know, my mom listened very passionately to Eurythmics and Pecha boys and these things, and, and, and I had, like, I felt I had a good audience at home. My, my oldest sister who worked in the cool clubs and, you know, who hung out with all these rural local rock, rock people, she played drums. And we, we played in the band together as well. So she learned to play the drums. So there was definitely like, she didn't pursue it as a, as a career, but she, there was definitely, there was definitely music in the family, but, but I always felt very, I felt like music was sort of a very private, very sort of alone, alone thing that I did and that I really enjoyed sort of cultivating on my own. 6 (7m 29s): It was my own world sort of, but I always felt very encouraged at home. 4 (7m 34s): That's amazing w with your two middle siblings, they didn't play any instruments at all, or where they are, you all kind of put into piano lessons or anything like that early on that? 6 (7m 44s): No, I think, I think maybe they would have wanted to be pushed more in that direction. I, I remember like just one day coming home from school and, and saying to my mom, I want to learn to play the guitar I need to, because at that point I was all already. Music was my, my main hobby. It was the, you know, just listening to music, watching MTV, you know, reading books about music, everything about it was exciting to me. And, and so the natural next step was to, to try to learn an instrument. And I said to my mama, I want to play with chart. And she said, okay, I got, let's see if we can, if you can, we can afford a, a guitar and, and sign you up for it for lessons really. 6 (8m 31s): And I didn't take to these lessons really easily. I wasn't a natural on the instrument. I, I didn't really enjoy music theory. I never really took to it or even learned it. And I started like classical guitar. And that was, you know, I, that's not what I was interested in. So it took me a while to really become comfortable with, with the guitar. I felt a lot of resistance within me because I I've never really felt like a, like an instrumentalist in a sense I've, I've never, I've never wanted to play the guitar except for needing, I needed an instrument to compose on. 6 (9m 16s): I mean, it needed, sir. I needed it just as a vehicle to write songs, but I never really felt that ambition when it came to like playing 4 (9m 25s): Yeah. Like a shredder or like interest kick. Yeah, for sure. I totally understand. 6 (9m 31s): I never did that. And so I just wanted to find, you know, a way to learn the chords that I liked then, and learn to play songs really, so that I could learn how to write my own songs 4 (9m 44s): With that. Like what year were you, or how old were you when you came home and asked your mom about the guitar? 6 (9m 50s): I think I was eight years old. Yeah. I was born in 82. So this probably around, yeah, like in the like 90, 91, I think I, I, I think we, we were handed out like brochures at school from like the sort of con communal guitar or music lesson thing that you have there, which is pretty cool. And, and you just, you know, I just said, you know, I crossed off guitar and I thought that was it. But yeah, I was, I was not, I was not a great student, so to speak, but I'm really glad I did it. 6 (10m 30s): And I did, I did have a, a guitar teacher who, who pushed me and who saw that classical guitar was not for me. He said, okay, I'll teach you to play the bus ANOVA because he was half Brazilian. And he, he, he, he recognized that I was more interested in, you know, pop music and melodic music and songs. And he said, okay, I'll try to meet you halfway. I'll teach you pop, pop music from Brazil. And that was a great entry point for me. I that's been a part of my life ever since, you know, Brazilian music and the love for, for that kind of harmony and that kind of songwriting. So, so that was, you know, I think I have him to thank for that. 4 (11m 11s): Was that something that you had been introduced to prior to that? Or was it like, okay, I'm gonna have to do this type of music and now you're like, okay, now I've got to go figure out what this is or what, like who to listen to, to kind of understand what I'm creating at this point. 6 (11m 26s): Yeah. I think it, it, I, I don't think I had, I don't think it was on my radar at the time, but, but it, it was pretty, I thought the courts were beautiful and I think it, it spoke to something that was inherently in me already, a love for a certain kind of chords and progression. And, but I think I, I grew to love jazz through learning by Bossanova, you know, and through learning Brazilian music. And then I went on to become really fond of a lot of old jazz songwriters from a really early age because I, I, to me that sounded like the kind of pop music I wanted to make. 6 (12m 11s): And so most of my, my sort of pop music that I make has since been informed by, by jazz and by that kind of harmony and, and Brazilian music. So I think, I don't know. I think he just hit, he just hit the jackpot in a way by, by turning me onto it and then I would go and explore it myself. 4 (12m 30s): Okay. And with that, like, I mean, were you in lessons for a while? Like, did you take lessons all through middle school, high school, or was it something that once you kind of got a grasp of it, you took it and became, it became like you, and you said it's kind of something that you did independently. 6 (12m 48s): Yeah, I think I, I, I think I took lessons for like maybe four, maybe five years and immediately after I sort of got the hang of it. And I, I think the moment I started to actually dare to sing because my, my mom would always encourage me to sing. I would write these little like chord progressions, and I would hear the melody inside of me, but my mom would always be listening. And she would say, well, I, I want to hear what you, the melody that you're hearing. But if in order to share that you have to, you have to sing. And, you know, I, cause I would play all these instrumental songs and they maybe wouldn't amount to much, but she found it beautiful, but, but she wanted to hear, hear, hear the melody. 6 (13m 37s): And, and so she encouraged me to sing and, and, and that felt really daunting and naked, you know, but the moment I started singing, I could actually communicate the, the songs and the melodies and even the lyrics as, as, as silly or primitive as they were at that time. And that's when I, I stopped taking guitar lessons. Cause then I was like, well, now I've got it from you. And you know, okay. I know now I know enough chords to sort of make progress on my own and I can sing and I can make songs and I can start playing. I felt like there's nothing more that I need to learn. 6 (14m 21s): Which of course wasn't true, but I, but I, I am glad I, I moved on, on my own because I felt well, you know, I, I, I wanted to explore on my own from Aaron. It still took me years to get really good at songwriting, but it, it, but it was like I had learned enough chops and I had a map of the terrain enough that I could carry on on my own. So then, then I quit. And, and then since then I've just been, yeah, I've been trying, trying to learn more, of course, with every song I write, I'm trying to learn more, but it's been good sort of finding out some things you just got to find out on your own, you know? 6 (15m 5s): So once you have enough tools at your disposal, then it's, it's good to sort of go on this independent sort of quest for, for, for the songs or for the knowledge to do it on your own. Yeah. 4 (15m 20s): Yeah. You had the, the vehicle to, to write the songs and do what you want to do with, with it, write songs. And now you have the courage to sing and you, what gives you the courage to then get on a stage? Like, does your sister say, Hey, you're, you know, you're pretty good at this. Like, I can get you a slot at this wherever she was working for an open mic night, or 1 (15m 43s): This is a St Jude moment. 2 (15m 45s): Ashton was high level athlete. And in an instant, your world flips and you're healthy. 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And I felt like the, you know, writing songs and singing, that was a way to justify just sort of basking in the audience attention in a way. And I felt I have to present something up there. I can't just go up there just because it feels good to be in front of an audience. So I, I think my sister and trip, probably everyone in my family, they, they saw that desire. 6 (17m 39s): And, and, and also that I, that I, I became kind of fearless. Like once I, once I, I came in contact with the, I felt free. Like I was terrified in the beginning at first of the idea of going up there. But once I got up there, I was very fearless and I was very unafraid and, and bold. And, and I, and it was clear that I love being on stage. So I felt pretty quickly. I just felt completely unfazed by, by the act of, of stepping up on, on any stage. I just loved it. 6 (18m 19s): And I felt like, well, I, I could felt I could do anything up here, you know, live off stage that that's frightening, but being on stage, that was suddenly I realized that was a whole, for me, it just, I don't know why, but it just felt like a completely free, I, I, yeah, I felt very in uninhabited and free and, and inspired whenever I was up there, I, I felt like there were different rules for me on stage that I could do stuff there and express things on stage that I, I couldn't find a way to do an express in, in real life. And so I, I, I think that really informed my song writing also, like I could really use, use these songs and, and, and my time on stage to, to express some things that I find really difficult to talk about in, in, in real life. 6 (19m 13s): And that was such a revelation. 4 (19m 16s): Yeah. That's really fascinating to know that you almost had more of a confidence when you're up there. Right. Then in, in, in person with people 6 (19m 25s): Completely. It was, it was, I think it was very, cause I, I always felt kinda, kinda, I don't know, kind of shy. Like I, I felt I had like certain platforms or certain settings where I, I, I could thrive, but I was not like, I was not a very like, and I, and I enjoyed, you know, I enjoyed some sometimes being funny in class or saying funny things. So it was obvious that I, I enjoyed an audience and I enjoyed creating or reaction in people, but I, I, wasn't very, you know, tough for, I didn't play any sports. 6 (20m 6s): I didn't do any of those, those things. So, so I felt like a pretty, you know, sensitive, shy kid in, in many ways. I don't know that always came across. Cause I, I, I, I wasn't, I had friends and I, you know, I, I had like a platform, but, but once I've found that stage and, and once I found music, I felt, I felt like, oh, well, that's where I, that's where I'm driving. You know, that's where I need to be. Yeah. 4 (20m 38s): It's interesting because I mean, personally, I'm really introverted person. And if you put me in a crowd of people around people, I'm just like, oh, like, I don't know how to like handle myself, but I've done radio. And I was on the radio for, you know, upwards to 17 years. And I do this, I can talk to me like this. I feel like me personally, I'm wondering if you have a similar situation where like, I know I can be open with people and chatty and, and extroverted because I kind of know, I feel like, like, I know it's to expect so to speak, like, I know what I'm doing because have done it for awhile. Like, do you feel like, because you are going to go on a stage and it's like all eyes on you, but you're like, okay, I got this set list. 4 (21m 22s): I've kind of planned out my moves. Like, do you feel like that kind of helped with your confidence level as far as like being in a situation where now you're out on these people and it's like, okay, you don't really know what's going to come at you. Like, that's how I feel. I don't know if I had a similar feeling. 6 (21m 37s): Yeah. I guess in some ways, but, but I really thrived on not really planning too much. I, I, that was maybe what surprised me. Cause I, I, I felt in real life, I really tried to, I wanted to maybe control, you know, how people saw me or you want it to control things that can't be controlled. But on stage, I, I found very quickly that I, I thrived on improvise, say, you know, improvisation, I thrived on sort of just responding almost, you know, like, yeah. 6 (22m 17s): Like, like improv, you know, I felt, I never felt at a loss for like something to say or do. And I know a lot of people who were really good at playing music, they hate that part of, of going on stage and say they don't know what to say or where to put their hands. But I felt the opposite immediately when I was on stage, I felt, I felt like things just came to me and I would sometimes forget to play the actual song. Cause I really enjoyed the interaction with the crowd so much. And I, and I certainly enjoyed the attention. So it was like entering the sewn where, where, where that it just, the things that could get off awkward and strange for me in real life or interactions or, you know, I, I was never, it was not easy for me to approach maybe a girl that I had a crush on or stuff like that. 6 (23m 12s): But, but, but on stage I felt like I got super powers and I could, I could, I could sort of seduce the audience in a way that I could never seduce a girl As a kid or as a teenager. So I, I, I found like these thing, it felt like super powers in a way, even if you know, just a small room and an open mic. And I was, you know, 13, 14, 15 years old, I'm sure I was presenting a lot of stuff that was not necessarily very good yet, but I, but it was clear I think to everyone that like, whoa, you know, this guy has at least these got some balls to just stand up, make it look like he actually, you know, deserves to be up on stage. 6 (23m 59s): You know, that was a rush. 4 (24m 1s): Sure. Which is the thing in itself. Because if you get up there and you're like, timid, you don't really know what you're doing, then people are kind of like, what's up, what's up with this person. Like if you bring a personality up there and you're kind of big in the sense of like, okay, you're, you're being, you know, quick and witty and you're playing and it's just like kinda, you're probably building up the audience and they're seeing their reactions and you're like, okay, this is working. It kind of, it's almost like it's boosting your confidence as you, as you kind of move. 6 (24m 27s): Totally, totally like that. 4 (24m 30s): What would you say? Like, okay, so you get comfortable on stage, you're writing songs. You, you get to play, these shows your sister's hooking you up with some gigs and stuff. Like, what is the next like, you know, milestone, I know you, you got signed pretty early on, not early on, but I mean, you signed a deal with a major label on for your first record, but like prior to that and that whole situation, like what led up to that? 6 (24m 52s): Yeah. I think I got really lucky. Cause one of these open mic gigs at my, one of the clubs my sister worked at, there was like a, I think we're just got around, oh, there's this kid, you know? And I grew up in a small town, so, you know, like 250,000 people live here. So word gets around in the music scene pretty quickly. There's this kid. And it was enough that this local producer who I really, I knew very well who he was HP Gunderson is his name. He invited me to his studio and he hadn't even seen the show, but he had turned talk and he said, I ain't going to come up, come up to the studio and you want to play me some songs. 6 (25m 39s): And I knew very well who he was, he, you know, he was a really cool, or it still is really cool producer, songwriter, musician, really, really beautiful artistic. So like, and, and, and I, I just walked up there and he said, you know, I was really nervous and timid. And then when he asked me to play, I just looked him in the eye and I played this, you know, mediocre song that I'd written, you know, but he just, he, and I think he really just liked that energy of like switching from, you know, that that's sort of more timid, normal teenage vibe. 6 (26m 21s): And then, but when you're playing the music, it's, it's serious and you're, it's full commitment. Cause I think, I think he's, he's told me, like it wasn't the song itself, the song itself was good, but it was, there was something there. And so we, he immediately just let me come by the studio whenever, whenever there was nothing going on there, I got comfortable in the studio. I could play in my new songs. We did demos. And it was, you know, he really was incredibly generous and, and they had the, really the best intentions. And then I think I was always hoping that whatever I came by, I was always hoping that I play him something new that he would be like, okay, okay, now you're now we're talking now let's make a record because he was very critical, but encouraging, you know, but, but he, you know, I felt really honored that he seemed in on my songs cause that's what I was hoping, you know, that's what I wanted. 6 (27m 24s): I wanted someone to really take, take me seriously, you know, as a songwriter. And he did, even before I had much to offer. And then I, yeah, when I was, when I was 16, he, he had invited me to the studio as usual. And, and I, I think I had told him, I have a new batch of songs. I played him a bunch of the new songs and he actually turned around and he said, all right, let's make a record. And it was, it was amazing. It was, it was, it was what I had been hoping for so long. I felt, of course, you know, I was 16, but I felt like I was running out of time. 6 (28m 5s): I was so ready, you know, but suddenly, yeah, I, he really inspired me and he challenged me to write better songs and, and, and suddenly I did. And, and that was basically, those were the songs for my first album. We call 'em called faces down that he co-produced, and, and he sent around these demos to labels and signed. I signed to Virgin records and yeah, thanks just happen. Suddenly things actually happened really fast. I actually, you know, I had to complete school. My mom and dad wanted me to complete school before the record came out, but I released a couple of EPS that did really well in Norway. 6 (28m 49s): And I got to work with a really cool label, major label, but really, really great people. And I felt really protected. I was very strict. I was very like uncompromising. I was really, really pretentious, but in a good way, I really wanted to protect my music. And I was not going to be anyone's, you know, teenage puppy and you just do whatever. I want it to really make a record that I was proud of. And I, and I did. And then suddenly I was, you know, touring the world and, and it was released in a lot of other, you know, in Europe and nation America eventually the year after. 6 (29m 31s): And I found myself touring in America and that was something I had never imagined would happen. America seems so far away, but that record did pretty well in American night. And yeah, like, you know, in just a couple of years, things, my life changed a great deal, you know, from, from, I think the album came out when I was 18. And then by the time I was 19, I was, I was spending most of my time touring in America and, and eventually I moved to New York. So it was, it was really wild, explosive time, but it somehow just felt natural to me cause he was like, yeah, like this, this is, this is what I was, this had to happen. 4 (30m 16s): Yeah, 6 (30m 17s): Exactly. But I did feel really privileged because I, I, I did work with a lot of really good people, both on the creative side. Obviously my, my producer and, and the musicians that I surrounded myself with gave me a lot of, you know, like a footing that felt secure. And yeah, I got, I got pretty lucky. I worked with good people on the label side as well. And, and there was still, you know, a lot of money in, in the, in the sort of major label system at the time. So I just, I just got in right before the bottom fell out of that. And, and at least I had a couple of years where with like tour support and, and we made music videos and, you know, like 4 (31m 3s): Yeah. To do all the rock story type things. 6 (31m 6s): Yeah, exactly, exactly. And then, and then, you know, when I got to like my, even my, maybe my second or third album, by that time, you know, MP3 and all, you know, all that stuff was happening. And I, I started to sense that, you know, the way that I make music and the way I want to make sure that I'm always doing exactly what I want creatively and artistically, it's probably not compatible with being on a major label forever because I was probably spending more of their money than they were making back. 6 (31m 50s): It just adds up. So I, I, after my fourth record, I, I started trying to, you know, just create my own label to put out my own music, to sort of, to sort of retain control over it and, and, and basically learn a whole new way of being an artist and become a fully independent recording and touring artists. And that's been sort of my life the last 10 years, I guess. 4 (32m 16s): Yeah. Wow. Well, even after, I mean, I'm curious, because I think this is a great film, Dan, in real life, you wrote a bunch of the songs for the record or for the soundtrack and with that, were you still on Virgin at that time? Or was that after? 6 (32m 31s): Yeah, that was, that was, that was towards the end I had, when that came about, I was two into my career and I was just about to release a record called duper sessions, which was, I guess, more of a overtly jazz inspired record. And, and the director Peter had just came to my door. I'd at that point, I was living in, in the west village, in New York and he came, he came to my door. It turns out his psychology is his shrink was in, in, in my basement. And he had reached out because he was literally in the basement. 6 (33m 11s): He went to a shrink that, that it was located in, in the, in the same building, in the basement. And he found out this was, he contacted my manager at the time and said, Hey, we, I really want to get in touch with this guy, Sandra Larkin, because I've been writing this movie called Dan in real life. And I've only been listening to his music while doing it. He had been listening to two faces down in two-way monologue and, and the songs were starting to appear in the script. And, and he said, I want you to, to compose all the music for my movie. Wow. 6 (33m 51s): And it was, it was a wild thing. I just moved to New York and, you know, I had just gotten married. I had just like trying to become an adult. And he comes in and says, I, I, so I cast Steve Carell and Juliette Binoche to be in this film. We're going to shoot it. Yeah, shoot it a half a year from now, but I want you to just start working now. I want you to read the script and start making music and both do songs, original songs, original score. And also he wanted to use some of the older songs. So, so this was, yeah, this was happening all at once. I was at that time releasing one record and recording another. So I was in a really, you know, productive, easy state. 6 (34m 36s): And then suddenly I was also doing this major motion, pictures, film score, you know, so it was a very strange, overwhelming time. I, you know, I was maybe 23 at the time. So I was like, it was really cool. And once again, I got to work with amazing people. And Peter, the director was, was, is one of the loveliest warmest human beings I've ever met. He was very encouraging and he insisted that I can do this. And I, and I, and I did that. I did my best. Then I got to work under his protection. So it was really, really a cool experience, but it was, it was not something I saw coming at all. 6 (35m 18s): And it felt like obviously a movie like that, you're going to be exposed to a whole new whole new audience and who are going to be attached to the music because of the way that the film makes them feel. And then hopefully the music adds to that. So there's a really, really great opportunity. And, and, and I, it definitely solidified my, this idea that, okay, well, I think I'm gonna probably stay in America for awhile. You know, I enjoyed living there and suddenly I had this side gig as a film, film composer, you know, 9 (35m 56s): What are you doing in one hour drizzly, you're getting your favorite beer, wine and spirits delivered right to your door from drizzly. Drizzly is the most convenient way to buy beer, wine, and spirits with delivery to your doorstep. 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If it was just for you learn more@gt.com, copyright 2022 grant Thorton, LLP, all rights reserved us member firm of grant Thornton, international limited in the U S visit gt.com for details. 4 (37m 12s): Yeah. And that's crazy. That's so huge, right? I mean, at that point, I mean, Steve Carell is so huge, but he was ma like peeking at that. And like Dane cook was in the movie and he was doing like really well to like, be the, was that a kind of where you, I mean, I don't want to stick on this too long, but it's just very fascinating to me. I mean, just switch gears like that going from like, just writing record and putting them out to now, like you have to read a script and then what developed songs kind of around what what's happening in the dialogue and like, was that a fun project and was that hard to kind of, you know, turn on a diamond and work that way? 6 (37m 50s): Yeah. Yeah. It was it, I found it really challenging. I didn't always know what was expected. And, and, and I w w I basically just tried to come up with as much stuff as possible so that Peter could hear, hear it and basically say, no, that's not, it, this is interesting. It was really hard to write songs with lyrics that didn't sort of over comment on, on the film or the scene. So it was a whole new experience, but it was really, it was good for my ego to sort of suddenly be just writing music that was supposed to serve someone else's vision. 6 (38m 33s): You know, so I learned a lot from that, and I'm glad that I, I had a lot of time to invest in between touring and releasing this records that I could, I could literally be on the set and write music on the set, which apparently it doesn't ever, everybody was telling me like, this don't get used to this. This is not how films are usually scored the composer. Doesn't, you know, usually the composer it comes in after the movies shot here, I was writing to the script before it had been filmed. And suddenly Peter was writing a scene where I appear with my band and he flew over my pen from Norway to be in the, in the final scene in the movie. 6 (39m 15s): So all this stuff happened and, and, and I would also get the, he wanted me to be, to get to know the actors and to work with them on music. Not like it's not, you know, not original songs, but he wanted me to coach them in, in singing songs that he gave them like Fe you know, famous songs that he felt corresponded with their character. So I was, I was one-on-one with, with, with Juliet panache and, and John Mahoney and Diane, we saw all these amazing actors just sitting with them working on. So I was sort of a music coach, all of a sudden. And then that was, I don't know that I necessarily knew what to do with that role, because I, I felt overwhelmed, but it was fun, nevertheless. 6 (40m 3s): And it did inspire me. I was also, you know, Steve Carell didn't really have time to learn to play the guitar and he was going to, but he didn't have time. He was filming the office and he was filming Evan almighty. You know, it was crazy. 4 (40m 19s): He had like a million things going on at 6 (40m 21s): That point. He was all over the place and the office just happened to be my favorite show. So I was, I was, I was amazed that I was, you know, texting my brother at home saying like, well, today I'm actually, I'm working with Steve Carell. Cause I'm going to be the guy playing the guitar. He's gonna pretend to play the guitar. We're going to have eye contact. They're going to shoot him and he's going to basically match my we're going to match each other's movements. And he's going to say my, let my love open the door, which we did all of his life, but only I'm the I'm playing the guitar, but you're seeing him playing the exact same guitar. So, so we, I suddenly found myself in a lot of really strange situations, just on set, making, making this stuff work beyond just making music for the film. 6 (41m 13s): I was, I was playing music with, with all these actors. So it was really, it was really, really cool. It was, it was not something I ever expected to be doing. And then the film came out very, very well and people loved it. And it it's a meaningful film to a lot of people. And those songs that ended, you know, I wrote a lot of songs that didn't make it onto the film cause I probably, cause I didn't always know what to do. So I just, I just wrote as much as possible. So we would have a lot to pick from, but editing and putting music in was also really fun. Cause it happened just a couple of blocks from where I lived at the time. So I could be a part of the, the early editing of the movie and, and try out the pieces for the, for the score. 6 (41m 57s): So that really helped me a great deal as well, because it would've been hard for me. I can at that point to, to score something like without trial and ever, you know, 4 (42m 9s): That's amazing that you had that opportunity to really be on set instead of them being like, you know, him coming to you and saying, I love what you're doing. I love these records. I want you to just fit, score this film. And here it is. Good luck. Yeah. You probably got feedback as, as the film was being shot. 6 (42m 28s): Yeah, absolutely. As it was being shot and as we were editing it and, and you know, thankfully I think for me, the theater wanted a really, a really sort of making handmade feel to everything. So he was really resistant to use strings or to use anything that reminded him of a normal sort of Hollywood score. And that made it actually easy for me to record a lot of it at home. You know, I could, I recorded it and you get here the radiator in my room. And some of it say, it's a really, it's a really unusual score for a, for a relatively big touchstone pictures, Walt Disney production. 6 (43m 10s): But he did that it because he wanted it that way. And then he wanted things to sound, a little sloppy and human as he put it. And then, and then we finished it off in the studio with, with some, some strings in some, some other instrumentation and, and you know, the song that I do with where I had the Regina Spektor saying one of the songs with me, we did that also in New York, but it was, yeah, it was a strange time in my life. 4 (43m 40s): That's so cool though. So cool. When you got, how quickly did that happen? Like how long had you been living in New York when that kinda came to together? 6 (43m 49s): Had been living for a year? Probably I moved to New York in 2005 and then early 2006, I think I met theater and, and then got to work pretty quickly. Cause I just had, because I was touring, I just had to, whenever I had free time, I just had to work on, on, down in real life and then, and then I'd be gone for a month and then something, you know? Yeah, it was so, so, so through 2006, 2007, I would work on this a lot. And then I think we locked picture and, and music by the, by sometime in the summer of 2007. 6 (44m 30s): And when the film out that fall and I got to meet all the, the cast of the office at the, the premiere in Hollywood. 4 (44m 40s): That's insane. That's so cool. That's so cool. I'm curious. When, what took you to New York? Was it just the fact that you had been touring the U S at this point and you had some success here? Was it like, okay, this is just the next logical move to move to United States. 6 (44m 57s): Yeah, probably it, it, it was, it was that. And then my girlfriend at the time or who I married, she was from Norway, but she went to, she was going to go to school and in, in New York when we met and I was there a bunch and so she was gonna live there for a couple of years. It just made sense. You know, I had a label and a pretty good setup there. And so we just seemed like the adventurous, bold move to, to just, okay, well, let's, let's get married and live in New York, you know, it's of wild. 4 (45m 32s): That's amazing though. And then you eventually moved to Los Angeles, correct? Because that years later, 6 (45m 37s): Yes, I did. Yeah. That was like, I think I lived in New York for 13 years and then I moved, I moved to LA and I lived there for two years before the pandemic, but I lived, yeah. I lived in Hollywood right down the street from, from the movie theater where Dan in real life for me. And it was very strange to be back in Hollywood and live in, you know? 4 (46m 0s): Yeah. No, no, definitely. I'm curious, like once you got to New York and your careers, obviously continuing to go your Dan in real life, like after that film, like what would you say between, I'm sure there's a ton of them, but like what were the kind of the big milestone moments for you between like during your time in loss or during your time in New York, after the film had came out? 6 (46m 23s): Well, then I think, you know, I've put out, I put out a couple of records and I was figuring out this more sort of independent way of basically doing it myself or financing the records and touring responsibly, you know? And, and so I was touring a bunch, but I was sort of, I think I was just trying to figure out a lot of stuff with regards to just the, how do I do this? You know, how, how do I become the master of my own career in a sense, you know, there was a lot, you know, cause I'd been pretty privileged early on in my career. 6 (47m 3s): I had had a lot of good helpers and now I was, you know, growing up, I was trying to find out how to, how to sort of master it, be the master of my own domain. So then, so I put, yeah, I put out a couple of records. I think for me, a big, big breakthrough was I made the record. I'm a record called pleas, which came out in 2014 and that was creatively a breakthrough where I experimented more with different ways of writing and different ways of recording, working with a bunch of different producers rather than one co-producing myself and really sort of stepping up. 6 (47m 44s): I felt that was at the time and you know, that my best sort of best work and, and I, I'm still very proud of that record. I feel that record was very liberating to me, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was an important work and, and, and I think energizing also for a lot of my audience, you know, cause it was, it definitely had a new energy and a much bolder palette. So I think it energized and, and maybe even reach some new people I've, I've done a lot of different steps. So you, you, you, when you, you gain some audience and you'd lose some, but by changing and by evolving and that's fine, but, but I felt that record was, was energizing in a lot of ways. 4 (48m 30s): And you're going through a lot personally there, I mean, from what I've read, you call it like your divorce record. Right. I mean, I don't, don't want to get too far into that, but that's interesting that you kind of put out your best piece of work at that moment. 6 (48m 42s): Yeah, I think I, yeah, I think it, you know, it was definitely labeled the divorce album and, and, and I think it took people by surprise in the sense that it was not like a, it was not like a sort of bitter whiny, whiny divorce record. It was, it was a lot of things, but it was really, it had a lot of energy and a lot of less real life. And also a lot of empathy. I really wanted to try to write from any possible perspective and to try to understand what was happening in my old life and, and why my life, as I knew it was dissolving, but also what, what, what new with new experiences and new life could come from that. 6 (49m 26s): So I think it was, there was a Metra, you know, maturation happening that was really, really good for me ultimately. And, and, and I feel that the record is a manifestation of that sort of strength in that and, and, and, you know, the willingness to be vulnerable and to understand that this is not something that's happening to you, but it it's, it's, it's rather an opportunity for, for new perspectives and to move on with, with, with love and, and empathy, really. So I feel that record, you know, was a turning point in, in, in that sense. 6 (50m 7s): Yeah. 4 (50m 9s): I mean, I would think that like, yeah, you'd have a lot of emotions into that record. A lot of stuff that if you were going through a whole lot, and then it's like, okay, was it like a release? Like, okay, I got to get all this out. I can get all this out. And then once it was out, is that, you know, how was that part of, I mean, maybe some of that feeling, I don't know. 6 (50m 27s): Yeah. Well, I felt really just really energized and I felt more sort of, I wanted to suddenly I wanted to start moving more on stage. I wanted to sort of free myself from the guitar so I could dance, I could move. So it was also sort of about inhabiting your body more in, in the music and onstage. So I really started the challenging. I started to challenge myself more with what I do on stage and think more conceptual about the, the sort of visual representation of the music, the videos I started getting much more involved and have much more initiative with regards to just every everything. 6 (51m 8s): So I felt like that's when I really grew into kind of really independent or tour in, in music and that I, I think I always wanted to be, yeah. I just took a little bit of life happening. Yeah. 4 (51m 25s): And with your next, the next record, after that pleasure was, is the latest record, I guess, compared to the new one that's coming out. Right. So that's the gap, right? You are you, 6 (51m 37s): Yeah, there's a there's pleasure from 2017 and then there's patients also. So that was almost like a bit of a trilogy. 4 (51m 46s): Sure, sure, sure. Okay. Sorry. I got, it seems 6 (51m 48s): Like patients, It's a lot of records and then there's a lot of, a lot of peace in that little trilogy, but yeah, I did. The last album I did was patients in 2020, right. 4 (51m 60s): Please, please. Pleasure. Patients was kind of the trilogy of the record. And where are you writing in that sense or did it just kind of happen that way? 8 (52m 7s): Business today looks nothing like it did yesterday while it's more unpredictable. Its possibilities are endless 11 (52m 14s): At 8 (52m 14s): ADP. Turning unpredictability into an advantage is what we do using data-driven insights. We designed HR solutions to help businesses work better, smarter, so they can think beyond today and find even more success tomorrow, HR times, talent benefits, payroll ADP, always designing for people 12 (52m 37s): Using marijuana before the age of 25 could actually cause changes in our memory. That's because THC, the active chemical and weed attaches to receptors in the hippocampus. The part of your brain that creates memories learn about marijuana at our website. 11 (52m 53s): I might lean back with my feet on the desk to look calm, but in my head, I'm wondering how do I deal with the business side of my new sneaker business? Hey, it's me your voice of reason telling you to get quick bucks. Some things telling me I should get quick books so you can get paid, run payroll and know where your business stands from the start. So I can get paid, run payroll and know where my business stands from the start now focus on your anniversary, which is tomorrow. Oh yeah. 13 (53m 16s): New business. No problem. Success starts with Intuit, QuickBooks, QuickBooks, payroll, QuickBooks payments, and QuickBooks online account required. 6 (53m 22s): It kind of happened. I feeling, yeah, I was just feeling really inspired really. And it was touring a lot. And suddenly also I, I had developed this great relationship with my backing band, who I started playing with in 2011. And so I had this whole new platform, creative platform and, and it just, yeah, please just bled into pleasure, which was even more sort of groovy and electronic in physical, in both on stage and on record. And, and then patience was this album that really I worked on, on and off for seven years since the beginning of, of that whole trilogy, that, and that when I, when I was writing that or ma making and completing that album, it really, it felt like the record I always wanted to make. 6 (54m 21s): You know, it felt like a very sort of substantial statement for my entire career and my, my life's work really. And, and it, it was really a joy to share that record, even though, you know, a lot of plants were halted because of the pandemic. It felt really mealing, meaningful to share a record called patients in that strange time. And for it to sort of correspond, I felt that it corresponded with some of what people were needing and what people were feeling and people were going through. So it, it was sort of a strange timing wise. It was sort of, sort of, I don't know, not locked lucky, but it, it felt like it was meaningful somehow that the record did actually come around in that time. 6 (55m 10s): And then I thought, well, now I'm not going to put out a record for a long time. Cause I, I made this big statement and then, and then basically the last year and a half I, I spent in Norway touring the lot solo whenever I could, because you know, socially distance stuff, of course then just trying to hustle and find, find ways of still doing what I do, even though we're not allowed to do it. You know? And, and, and that actually proved really fruitful. I, I think I, in the same way that I, I always thrived on improvising on stage. I, I found, I really actually thrived on improvisation in just in my career and with, with the, the constantly changing landscape of touring during the last two years. 6 (55m 55s): And, and then I just also parallel to that, started writing all these really dense, lyrical on new songs that, that, that I felt in a way now I felt that I was suddenly making the record. I never thought I'd be able to make. And that, and that's, what's become this double album avatar. It's surprised me as much as anyone will. You said, 4 (56m 23s): Did say patients was songs that you had been writing over the course of seven years. Is that what you said? But you had two other records that came out that what the songs just didn't fit on or, 6 (56m 33s): Yeah, I think it came out of that cause like, you know, some of the songs that didn't fit on, please, they, I, I, I would continue with those for pleasure, but then there were songs that didn't fit into either one of those. And, and those became the starting point for, for patients and, and that informed some of what I was looking for there. But with this new one with avatars of love, it's really just all songs that I wrote within the span of one year and it's written and recorded in the span of one year. So it was this very explosive process where, where I didn't really try to write songs, but it just happened. 6 (57m 18s): And then suddenly some of the songs are 10 minutes long and they have 10 verses and you know, it really, I, I didn't know much else to do than to just try to capture it and complete it. And I w I was working on like some extra weird energy that I didn't know, I didn't really know from before. So it felt like a, a new chapter in many ways. Yeah. And so suddenly there's a double record of like a 86 minutes of music. It's a lot to take. Yeah. 4 (57m 55s): And with, with, so you moved from New York to Los Angeles and then you're in Los Angeles when the pandemic happens. Is that what kind of brought you home to Norway or like 6 (58m 7s): Pretty much? Yeah, I was, I was in LA beginning of March and I, I left for Norway cause I started getting a bad feeling. I was like, shit, this is probably more serious than I think. And it was much more serious than I thought at the time. Cause I thought, well, I'll go home for a month. And then I'll come back. I was about to announce the album, announced tours, announced videos, you know, do all this stuff. And I felt well, I'll go home to Norway and maybe I can keep the wheels in motion there. Cause it's a little smaller country, more than tight air and, and Trump wasn't president of Norway. So that was good. So, so I, I went home, but I, I didn't really expect to stay there, but because of everything that was happening in order to keep, keep, keep wheels in motion, I, I ended up staying in Norway where, cause I was able to do couple of more things here than I would have been able to in America. 6 (59m 5s): So, so I, in the end, it, I was really thankful that I could come home and then suddenly, you know, two years have passed and now I'm still here. So it's still there. 4 (59m 17s): Yeah. I'd read that. You kind of had a different approach to this, this record, which is a album, which is incredible to that. Read a double record and in a span of a year, but from what I read, you were saying that you were writing a song and then kind of just putting it out instead of like sitting on it too long, you're just write the song was recorded. And then that was the, the, the version. 6 (59m 37s): Yeah, exactly. I, I, I was able to just spend like a week or two, just really focusing on a song that I had been feeling coming on and then go, yeah, go straight into the studio. I had like four or five different studios and constellations of co-producers and musicians that I work with. So I could, I could have a lot of stuff going at the same time and, and I was kind of, yeah, working, just working overtime, but it's a strange time because that was also like partying a lot. And I was running, I was training for my fifth marathon and I was training to run one 4 (1h 0m 15s): Marathon. Yeah. 6 (1h 0m 18s): Yeah. I, cause I started running marathon like in like 20, 20 17, which was a complete surprise cause I never was into sports, but I suddenly, I, I w I had to run to be in better shape to be able to sing and move on stage. And one thing led to another and I ran the New York marathon and, and then I started just wanting to run more and, and, and I got really close. I ran Chicago was my first marathon. I ran, I ran really, I got really close to doing it in three hours. And then of course I had to try to get below three hours. And, and, and that was my main goal. 6 (1h 0m 58s): The summer of 2020 was just training to be able to, to run in under three hours. And, and that was while all this was happening and I was playing all these solo shows and traveling around the country on my own. So it was a really strange time. And then in between, I'd be hanging out with friends and drinking wine. And then that's also when I had the idea to start like a, like this natural wine brand. So I did that and I wrote children's books. It was very strange. I 4 (1h 1m 27s): Guarded 6 (1h 1m 27s): So 4 (1h 1m 28s): MSI. 6 (1h 1m 29s): I started so many weird things that I, that made sense to me and that still make sense. And, and, but I, I had a lot of energy and a lot of like, I wanted a lot of stuff I wanted to get, get going and get, get out into the world. And, and I'm glad I'm glad for it, but I I'm trying now to be, you know, to not burn out completely cause it's been, it's been pretty intense. 4 (1h 1m 55s): Oh, I can't even imagine just the record and training merit for marathons loan sounds like way too much. And then, you know, you said you started a wine company and you're writing children's books as well. 6 (1h 2m 8s): Yeah. We just, we just launched actually two of the, two of the bottles in, in America as well. It's called pot dose. It's it's organic biodynamic wine. One is like a cava or sparkling delicious wine. And then another is a, a rose a from, from Spain, from Catalonia. And now I'm working on some Italian wines in the same brand. That's hopefully going to be able to share later this year, but it's been really, really cool to, to be able to branch out into, to one making it. It's very, I didn't see that coming either, but I do enjoy wine, but I'm not, I'm not a specialist, but I've always enjoyed wine rather than beer and spirits. 6 (1h 2m 54s): So I I'm learning a lot and just trying to create a really cool, cool experience and a cool brand for really good products. You know, 4 (1h 3m 3s): That is awesome. Is that why you're doing so many wineries on this tour coming up? 6 (1h 3m 8s): I guess I actually, I didn't think of that, but it's 4 (1h 3m 12s): Five city wineries. One of them was here in Nashville and I'm going to that because that's, that's where I'm at now. I know you're playing San Diego, which is a bar, the soda bar, but I don't know if they S it's kind of a, it's more of a rock clubs. I don't know if they sell wine there. Maybe 6 (1h 3m 27s): I gotta make, I gotta make sure that they have, have my wines at these, all these city wines. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. 4 (1h 3m 36s): That's funny. It wasn't even a correlation. It just happened to happen that way. 6 (1h 3m 40s): Yeah, I guess there, there, yeah, I haven't actually thought of that, but th th now that you mentioned it, it's a, it's a no brainer, but yeah, they, they have a lot of cool venues around and, and they're, yeah. They're pretty artists, friends who said it made sense to do a couple of a couple of those. 4 (1h 3m 57s): That's awesome. Yeah. I did see the last show on your tours and Nashville, so, 6 (1h 4m 1s): Yeah, 4 (1h 4m 3s): That's 6 (1h 4m 3s): Amazing. That's amazing. 4 (1h 4m 6s): So cool. And I, like I said, I love the songs that you put out so far on this new record, the 10 minute version, which you cut into, I think about seven and a half, eight minutes for the music video, the fact that you have the art is like hand drawn, you know, dancing. And that had to be a whole production in itself. Just putting together 10 minutes. It's like animated. 6 (1h 4m 29s): Yeah. That's why like CJ Wallace is the director who animated and directed the video for avatars of Levin. And he was asking me, I sent him the song and of course the deadline was, was, you know, way too soon, but he was a good sport. And he said, but, you know, do you think, is, are you okay with, can we fade at some point? You know, cause it's 10 minutes long, but the song, the vocals are over after seven minutes. Are you okay with, if, if, if I can fade it there, it just means I have, it takes me three weeks, less, 4 (1h 5m 8s): Three minutes left, like a full song left, less to do. 6 (1h 5m 12s): So I always say, yeah, of course, of course. So we, we just faded out, but the full album, the eyes 10, 10 minutes and 21 seconds, it's got a pretty good saxophone solo there. So 4 (1h 5m 24s): That's a rad song. I love you're, you're discussing all this stuff in pop culture too. Is that just stuff you were experiencing throughout the pandemic? I mean, talk about Taylor Swifts to Taylor swift records and Brittany Spears, but she had a lot of focus on during the pandemic and 6 (1h 5m 39s): Yeah, it's, I there's a lot of there's songs and albums that are meaningful to me. They're artists who I was thinking about. I'm very interested in, in pop culture and especially of course, the interaction between persona and art, you know, and, and obviously really famous people are become or famous characters and names become really interesting because they become larger than life as personas, but they're still vulnerable artists creating art from, from a very personal perspective. And Taylor swift is very interesting and obviously very talented. 6 (1h 6m 20s): And I I've had, I've had a great affinity for Brittany Spears and been following her as sort of emancipation. And I did, I actually did a Brittany Spears sort of cover EAP in 2019, just at the beginning of the, the free Brittany movement to sort of, I dunno to bring, I know there was, it just felt meaningful to sort of bring that into focus. And so I've been, I was happy to, to follow that case. 4 (1h 6m 51s): I didn't know that you D what's the, what's the EAP called? That's all 6 (1h 6m 55s): It's called. It's called Brittany song. Yeah. There's a, an original song that I wrote inspired sort of by her, her struggles and her, her, her, her battle. And then there's three different collaborations that I did on Brittany Spears songs. So I did that right before the patient's album came out. Yeah. 4 (1h 7m 17s): Oh, wow. I need to find this thing on the internet. Has I didn't I saw you, you had to cover it. Like, I, I was assuming some of your covers, like you did wrecking ball by Miley Cyrus and stuff. I love your song choices. Cause I'm such a sucker for female pop stars, like their music. I love it. Oh, wow. I did find it every time. Okay, cool. Amazing. I'm going to have to check that out. Very, 6 (1h 7m 38s): Very 4 (1h 7m 38s): Cool. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for doing this. This has been amazing. And I'm going to definitely come check you out. I think the 29th of May, you're doing show here in Nashville, 6 (1h 7m 52s): That's it? That's the final show of that. And 4 (1h 7m 54s): Then what's after that you had at home right away, or 6 (1h 7m 57s): I'm heading home, I've got a bunch of like festival shows here in, in, in Norway for the summer. And, and then, you know, I'm, I'm, we'll see. Maybe there'll be some more in the fall. 4 (1h 8m 11s): Well, yeah. I mean, if you're going to be around for a couple of days, I have an open house for you. Thanks. 6 (1h 8m 18s): Oh, man. I wish I could stay, but I have to, I have to. I have to. Yeah, I have to be normally, 4 (1h 8m 27s): Yeah. 6 (1h 8m 27s): I got to be in Norway. Ready to play on June 1st. 4 (1h 8m 31s): Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. You got a tight schedule. I can't wait to see you, man. And I appreciate you doing this interview. Thank you so much. 6 (1h 8m 38s): Thank you. 4 (1h 8m 39s): I have one more quick question. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists, 6 (1h 8m 46s): Man. It's I kind of have like boring advice, but it is, is, is, you know, to really be true to yourself. And if you don't yet know sort of what you want to do or where you're going, like spend some time to figure that out, you know, and really find out why one thing is more meaningful to you than the other, you know, and music, and also in how you present yourself or how you want to be seen. Cause it's, I think it's so easy for people to take advantage of you. If you don't know what you want to do, who you are and what is the substance that really gets you going. And I think that's really important to not be, oh, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. If, if you're fine with all too many things, then I don't know that you should be an artist. 6 (1h 9m 32s): You know, I think you need to, to really, really know yourself. And, and I think songwriting is about seeing through yourself, you know, and really sort of yeah. Understanding who you are. And, and then I think that that makes that really compelling.