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May 15, 2022

Interview with Rose Betts

We had the pleasure of interviewing Rose Betts over Zoom video!

Standout British singer/songwriter Rose Betts wears her heart on her sleeve in her triumphant debut full-length album, White Orchids, out now! Rose wrote and co-produced the entire...

We had the pleasure of interviewing Rose Betts over Zoom video!

Standout British singer/songwriter Rose Betts wears her heart on her sleeve in her triumphant debut full-length album, White Orchids, out now! Rose wrote and co-produced the entire album.

To Rose, White Orchids represents a loss of innocence; a moment of pure youth and fragility where her heart was broken. Just as an orchid blooms once before it is usually discarded, it feels as though one can grasp on to youth for merely a fleeting moment.

Rose released the emotional, self-reflective album single “Recovery” late last year, and it was recently synced for usage for the CW hit TV show "Legacies." Another album track, "Driving Myself Home," went supernova on Tiktok in January and is now closing in on 2 million combined streams and well over 5 million views. Rose also released “Song To The Siren” last year (producing the track as well as performing it), which served as the leading song of Zack Snyder's Justice League (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack), created by GRAMMY-nominated multi-platinum producer, musician, composer and educator Tom Holkenborg. Olympic Silver Medalist Alexandra Trusova used “Song to the Siren” in her recent Olympic run.

Hailing from London, England, Rose Betts is a singer-songwriter with an uncanny ability to pen beautiful hooks and lyrics with a depth beyond her years. A regular on the London music scene and darling of Sofar Sounds, Rose toured the UK in 2017 and self-released her first EP The Stars Look Down. She has received major radio play on BBC 2 and BBC 6 and continues to blur the lines of conventionality through her collaborations with art, film, theatre and virtual technology. She is also involved in other collaborative projects, working on Bazzi’s single ‘Young and Alive’ which was nominated for Best Remixed Recording at the 63rd Annual GRAMMY Awards and “Song to the Siren,” her contribution to the Zack Snyder's Justice League (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack), which she performed and produced.

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Hello! It is Adam welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieved stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with rose bets over zoom video. Rose's born in London and raised just outside of London. And she talks about how she got into music comes from a very artistic household, picked up piano at a very early age, started writing songs around 11 years old. She talked to us about putting out her first EAP, having the opportunity to cover a song, which ended up landing in a very impactful scene in the new justice league movie. So he got a chance to kind of talk about the, the drama around that film being recut, and then having her song land in the film. 3 (2m 44s): She also had a massive viral moment on Tik TOK that we talked about and all about her new record white orchids. You can watch our interview with rose on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcasts, it'd be awesome if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five star review, 4 (3m 14s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 3 (3m 20s): We're bringing it backwards with rose bets. Well, okay. This is about you and your journey and music. Let's talk about where you were born and raised 5 (3m 31s): Going in London, raised north of London and a bit outside of village called Kings Langley. Very kind of a very beautiful green garden, very, very English countryside. Very nice, very nice sprain. I like the it's a nice place around there. It's quite quaint. It's kind of the kind of place that I think Americans, the whole living that looks like cottages and this little pups and peaceful walks and things like that. Yeah, very nice. But I think that's why they moved us out of abundance. You know, it's, it's a full on place to grow up, especially if you're in the center of it. 5 (4m 11s): So yeah. 3 (4m 12s): How long were you in London? Were you pretty young when you moved? 5 (4m 15s): Yeah, I think it was about about 7, 7, 7, 8, but my father is an actor. So if you had to stay close to the city, so we didn't go far, so yeah. Yeah. 3 (4m 27s): Oh, that's awesome. So yeah, arts are in the family music at all in the family. 5 (4m 32s): Music is very much in the family. My mother was a French horn player and she was also a dancer and we have music from the moment we were born ready. We were singing and they played us. They woke us up with music. They put us to sleep with music. We sung every time we had a meal. Yeah. Just completely submerged and music. Totally. As I feel, I feel how lucky that is. 3 (4m 57s): That's awesome. And so you got into music at an early age? I would imagine 5 (5m 2s): I was thinking from a very young son together, as far as we were singing from a very early age. And then around the age of six or seven, I started teaching myself piano. And then, and then just, you know, naturally just started writing songs about like 11. I mean, they were, you know, the 11 year old songs. They weren't like pieces of genius, but I was definitely drawn to the whole thing. And it also, it was have to have quite a full family. I've got quite, we were quite noisy. We were quite full on like on top of each other. And, but no one was particularly stood in the room with the piano in it. So I would like escaped the piano, just had like a <inaudible> to sitting, writing songs for hours and, yeah. Cool. Well, 3 (5m 41s): That's awesome. And you said you're writing songs early 11 years old. Did you, when did you start like performing out or when did you start showing people? These songs was that later 5 (5m 51s): It was later. It was, I wasn't one of those kids that caught on concerts in the front room. I was like very, very private about it. It was very much, it was very much my thing. I didn't, I didn't, I was terrified of sharing, sharing myself. I think it was, I thought quite right yet people would take them as my feelings. And it feels very personal to share your feelings in such a kind of out there way that yourself quite vulnerable. I was very scared of that. So I didn't really start sharing myself under duress. I would share them sometimes, but maybe until I was about 14, 50, 14, maybe outside, like playing them at school, I made a little bad at school. Then I got my sister to sing harmonies and yeah. 5 (6m 34s): So from about that, I started doing it. And then before, when more properly, when I left school and stuff like that. 3 (6m 39s): Okay. And did you end up going to college for music at all? Or do you just took this as a passion? 5 (6m 45s): No, I didn't. I thought about it. I thought about going to, to study English, I thought about, thought about like, just doing something academic. I love all that, but I loved someone so much. You can go to some writing colleges and you can go to places, you know, musicologists aren't necessarily like, just about an instrument, but I kind of thought it was a waste of time. I think, I think I thought it could kind of teach yourself the arrogant. Like I think I can teach myself a lot of things. I just want to start living. I just want to be out in the world and just be, just consider that my, my education and just write. And so that's kind of what I did. I didn't, I didn't do college night, so, 3 (7m 25s): Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, 5 (7m 32s): Just, just out that maps out, they're just like just, I just threw myself into London and just try to, you know, start started gigging and start building, building and it life. Yeah. 3 (7m 45s): And when did you, like, what was the first success? I mean, I looked at you that you put a record on from what I saw in NEP in 2014, was that your first release, 6 (7m 53s): The where Cohen family style deal, because I want a bite of your 7 (7m 57s): Big Mac and I need salvia quota. I'll try 6 (7m 59s): Your full there's a deal for every friend group at McDonald's order. Any two classics for just six bucks. Price for participation may vary. Single item at regular price can not be combined with any other offer. 1 (8m 8s): Geico asks, how would you love a chance to save some money on insurance? Of course you would. And when it comes to great rates on insurance, Geico can help like with insurance, for your car, truck, motorcycle, boat, and RV, even help with homeowners or renters coverage. Plus add an easy to use mobile app available 24 hour roadside assistance and more. And Geico is an easy choice switch today and see all the ways you could save. It's easy. Simply go to or contact your local agent today. 8 (8m 39s): Hurry into mattress firm for a limited time, save up to $500 when you get a king bed for the price of a queen or a queen for twin, plus get a free adjustable base with qualifying Sealy purchases up to a 4 99 value or get up to 60% off America's top rated brands like Sealy queen mattresses starting at 2 79 99, or Sleepy's at 1 99 99 in stock for fast delivery. Only at mattress firm restrictions apply, see store or mattress for details. 5 (9m 9s): Oh, that was, was that 2004 chancellors. We found 17. I could be wrong. No, no. Maybe you could be right. I actually, I felt like 2017 was two weeks. 3 (9m 19s): Oh, 2016. It says, I thought it 16 were all. I mean, it's been a 5 (9m 24s): Day. They come 3 (9m 25s): In a day where you say 17. So it's probably 17 who knows the internet is never, it's not like it's never failed me before the stars looked down. Tell me about, oh, was that your first real release then? 5 (9m 38s): Yeah, that was my first release. I kind of, I had been recording and I'd had a band and we'd been, and it kind of felt natural to put something out. And so we kept it quite small and simple and it wasn't particularly fancy, but I, yeah, it was, it was the fast that project and yeah. You know, it's nice to hear this stuff cause I feel like I'm in a very different space now, but songs are funny like that. They kind of, especially vocally. I, I think I vocally made a massive, massive kind of hopefully progress since even then. So it's interesting to hear them and kind of think, oh God, a little bit of that, but it's, you know, it's a little kind of like a little diary that's for the world to see if like my journey 3 (10m 23s): And for the record, what was kind of the next what'd you say like a milestone moment for you? 5 (10m 30s): It wasn't that small. So I think, I think it was, it was starting to work with the people that I'm working with now, which is basically people in LA because I kind of, then I started to write, I sort of changed the way I was wanting to himself. I think I was 17. I suddenly was able to embrace, I think, through just development, but it was in be able to embrace vulnerability a bit more. And, and my son watching improved a lot. And then I started producing my own stuff, like in a kind of sketchy way. I mean that kind of production sketch of all my songs before they go to a producer and then we co-produce the tracks, but I started to change the way I could teach after that album. And oh, that, that piece. 5 (11m 10s): Sorry. And, and then because of that, I could tell that it cooled on a bit more of a, like a more pop producer, someone who could take the songs into a bit of a bigger space. So the next milestone was kind of writing that this guy that I'd been working with for ages has been really helpful, but, and he's now a manager and I sent him one of my songs. I sent him my soul recovery and, and I think he was in like, okay, we need to get you to LA. So it was kind of a combination of my productions, my production designers kind of developing and then my songwriting improving, which then led to this kind of new chapter of LA and coming out here and meeting the producers, producers I worked on with the album. 5 (11m 51s): Yeah. I felt right about memory. I don't know. There might be some really great things that happen. I completely have forgotten. 3 (11m 57s): No, no, no, but this is a new venture then getting to Los Angeles. So this is all created because recovery recoveries just came out on the new record, right? 5 (12m 5s): Yeah. To, I mean, it came out last year as a single, but we added it to the record. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. 3 (12m 13s): Yeah. So you get some from that song was like, okay, well tell me about getting to LA then. Was that just like, okay, we should, I should move to LA. 5 (12m 24s): Well, initially it was just coming out to visit and it was a bit like, it felt a little bit like coming up for a meeting. Obviously I spoke street a couple of away from me, but it felt a lot bigger than that, but essentially it was to kind of test the waters and to meet the team over here, to meet Kevin, the producer and see it to see if he got on and see if we clicked, see if, see if he liked the music and have to work on it, see if we would work together well in a studio. So I kind of came out like three times over, over a year or so you had a half or so. And, and every time it was just kind of like developing just, just for me out. Cause I wasn't initially coming out. It was at that group that came from, I suppose, the success of, of the working relationships that I formed here. 5 (13m 8s): And particularly with Kevin, we just really clicked. And so we started working on the songs that ended up in the album and then, and then I moved to LA in August, but that was a very long process of visa, very boring things and stuff and COVID and everything, all that, all the stuff that we've been dealing with all came into that. 3 (13m 29s): Okay. So you made it, you were in LA when you were writing these songs and then COVID happened or vice versa. 5 (13m 34s): No, no. Most of the songs are written in the UK before I came here, which is why it's such a setup labor of love because COVID definitely need, all of them were ready before COVID hit. So it was 3 (13m 47s): Like, 5 (13m 48s): Yeah, it was like a kind of, I was in Scotland with my stay with my twin sister and just kind of refreshing the visa page on the us site everyday just to see if there's any progress and yeah, it was full on. So it was totally, I just never believed it would happen. It's just like that thing that you just live, you just kind of keep yourself in a suspended space of like what's going on and then could change. Nothing could change. We will be living with that complete. I know I'm kind of maybe feeling a little bit through it now, but during COVID like what was going on? Like anything could happen the next, you could bet you're stuck there or you can't go to local shop or yeah. There's wait time. 3 (14m 29s): You said you have a twin sister. 5 (14m 31s): I do. 3 (14m 31s): Yeah. Identical twin, 5 (14m 33s): Not identical. She's got red, bright red hair and she's in temperament extremely different to me, but we're very, very close 3 (14m 42s): She's. Is she musical or was that you got that gene? 5 (14m 47s): No, I suppose we all got the gene by almost by, I always compare, it feels like the experience. All of us kids. It there's four of us, all of us growing up in the household that we grew up in. It's almost like growing up with another language in the house. If your mother is German and English, you're going to grow up knowing both languages and you know why you know that you just know them and it's a bit like that with music, we will, we will inevitably be musical, but I made money doing it professionally, but it might, my twin is a teacher to teach us in an alternative education school where there's a ton of music. So she has like two leads, all the choirs and, and we, we had, we had a little band, so yeah, she's very musical. 5 (15m 29s): She was very beautiful, but very different to me, like more classical. 3 (15m 33s): Okay. That's awesome. I want to hear about the, the song song to the siren. And then I want to talk about the tick tock thing. 5 (15m 43s): Cool. 3 (15m 45s): So what like, so that song was huge. Tell me about that, but it's not on the record, correct. 5 (15m 51s): So, I mean, it's not it's it's so it's not, it's not my song. It's written, it's a written song by it. It makes for a seventies. It's originally been by Tim Buckley, Jeff, June, Jeff Buckley's by. 3 (16m 4s): Yeah. And you did a cover for, for a film. Is that how it all started? Like, tell me about that, how that all began. 5 (16m 11s): I got a, an email in July of 2020, I guess. Yes, yes. Maybe I say hard to remember now, but anyway. Yeah, yeah. It was a couple of years ago. I got an email from the editor of who I, who I noticed the family friends. And she described too, obviously couldn't talk about the project she was working on, but she said, they'd been looking for someone to do a cover of the song, looking for ages. I didn't want to just do the nepotism thing of throats. I know, I know my best friend down the road by she can sing a song that I genuinely think you would be good for this. I've asked if you could do a version submitted. 5 (16m 52s): And then, and I said, great. Tell me, it's like, can you tell me anything about the scene or something about it? So I have a sense of what's trying to be channels here. And so she gave me a little description, but I had no idea anything about it. So, and I had the song, I haven't had the song before and I submitted my version. Didn't hear anything for like six months. I just get in and okay. Last lot happening. And then I got a call in December saying, yeah, like they want you to, they want you to be the, the cover that the version of the voice. And then they told me what film it was, which is the justice league, Zack Snyder. And I was like, oh, I haven't, that's a lot bigger than I anticipated. And then within a month I was recording it with a full orchestra in London and, and that was a little bit wild and I'm just, I'm really proud of that. 5 (17m 37s): So it would be lovely to have it on the album, but we would get into like 50 songs. And I think technically, I dunno, 3 (17m 45s): Huge what an opportunity to have it in such that's crazy. You didn't know what it was. And then it was like, oh, it's going to be justice league. You're like, wait, what? 5 (17m 53s): Yeah, it was. And then just reading the whole history of how that film even taking to being a mother. I know that there are lots of, lots of interesting kind of like just incredible things that happen to make that film happen. And I'd like years and years of competing from five. So it was, it was a big D way, bigger deal than I ever anticipated by first think deal to be. That was a bit weird, but it was great obviously. Yeah. 3 (18m 17s): Yeah. I didn't even think about that. There was a lot of like controversy, not controversy, but a lot of, like you said, 5 (18m 24s): Okay, 3 (18m 25s): Yeah. With the film, right. It was already done. And then he re cut it and they're read, did it? I can't remember anything. 5 (18m 32s): Yeah. And it was done. And then due to like a personal tragedy, Zack Snyder had to drop out during the post phase. And then it was kind of a mess. It was put out, but it was a complete mess of a class, hated it immediately. And they were, they were like, we want, we want Zach's car and want to wear, I think, resistant and resistant for about four years. And I think that's fine with the funds, like grew so much. I mean, I think at one point they were flying planes over the Warner mall with like, they went, they it's, it's really quite remarkable and I've kind of an interesting shift into like, it kind of proves an interesting shift in audience power and this thing of like the people, like there's a lot more people are very, very good at getting together now and creating movements that these great corporations now they can't really express or ignore it. 5 (19m 24s): So it's like, I don't, I don't know where I want to all of that. And how, how, like, I don't know why they resisted it, but I suppose it's just a lot of money, But yeah, they, they broke them eventually. And this song was in a seat that had been cut and, and yeah, it was great. It was, I couldn't when I first saw the film, just like the day after it came out something, I was like, well, that it felt a little bit like, I don't know. It's hard to describe it when you hear yourself singing, it's a bit like, it felt wrong. It felt like, why am I in my wife? I felt like I had inserted my own song into the film, like really badly. And like, just like made, like made a music video of, no, this is it. 5 (20m 6s): Like, because it's like, the seed is incredible. It's like this amazing scene. And there's no other sound apart from this song and my voice, I was like, geez, it was just, it was, it was not like expected. Yeah. 3 (20m 20s): That's so cool though. I remember my avatar, he's 14 now a son. And he, when that came out, he was like telling me all the drama behind it. I'm like, whoa. And then it was like on HBO, max or something I think is where he watched it. And I'm like, yeah, it was just like 1 (20m 36s): Geico asks, how would you love a chance to save some money on insurance? Of course you would. And when it comes to great rates on insurance, Geico can help, like with insurance, for your car, truck, motorcycle, boat, and RV, even help with homeowners or renters coverage. Plus add an easy to use mobile app available 24 hour roadside assistance and more. And Geico is an easy choice switch today and see all the ways you could save. It's easy. Simply go to or contact your local agent today. 3 (21m 7s): I was like, oh, this is cool. I watch it with him. But he was like, yeah, this is like, the revert is a different version of the film. And I'm like, oh, like, it was cool to kind of hear like the back 5 (21m 17s): Of it. 3 (21m 18s): Oh yeah. He, he thought he liked it. And he even liked the other one that you read it too. I feel like DC has become this become a thing. They redid suicide. 5 (21m 28s): Yes, yes, yes, yes. So the second one was better, wasn't it? Yeah. 3 (21m 33s): Must have been a more complaining, but That's awesome. That's so cool. And then you had some tick-box success with one of your songs in yeah, 5 (21m 44s): I did not actually. It was in, it was probably in the altar And the ultimate last year. I, I I'd been on tech talk for a little while and Mike is, my monitor was like, you got to do it. And as we did with this diminished fee, but I'm so glad I caved because it was, it's actually, it's a really interesting platform. I know that there are lots of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of crap on there and there's a lot of stuff that doesn't necessarily feel like it's worth your time, but you know, we all like a cat dancing and it's hard. It's hard to scroll away videos like at the end of the day, like it is funny 3 (22m 23s): Mindless entertainment for some. Yeah. 5 (22m 25s): Yeah. But I kind of cool. I don't want to be a part, I don't feel like where do I fit? How do I, how can I possibly have any possibly be interested? But then I, I wrote this kind of song that was written very quickly and just like a bit of a joke about a date that I went on. And, and the main, the main feeling of the date was just this thing of, and I'm maybe I'm a bit like this, but I was just way happier to be driving away from the date that affidavit, I don't even know the date was in fact, like it wasn't like it was after the had gone wrong or you didn't sell it me or anything like terrible had happened. It was just that the thing of preferring my own company and I, so I just made this 50, this little song about it. And weirdly it just really connected with people, which is kind of interesting, like turns out loads of people that had that feeling of nothing, nothing grabs the simple, getting upset. 5 (23m 16s): So it was like some weakness completely viral. And, and so then we put it out. I think, you know, I don't know how many had, like at least like 5 million now combined it, and it's done really well at Spotify. So it's at the moment. It's my, it's my number one song. It's the one that everyone those before, and I get recognized every now and then for a gig. And it's, it's funny, I've seen loads of covers, which are always brilliant. Yeah. That, that was an interesting kind of time. It and my kind of fan base growing. It's been great. It's been helpful. 3 (23m 51s): Yeah. That's so cool. Like w do you remember when it came out, like, was it a pretty quick, like viral moment or was it something that took a bit of time or was it yeah, like, did you wake up and it was millions of people I'd watched the video or did something like that. 5 (24m 5s): It's pretty quick. It was pretty quick. It was, it was, it was like, I put it out when you put things out on, on tech, so you can kind of tell them they're doing well. Cause they'll kind of like, your inbox would be full for the first couple of days. And, but then it kind of went by quickly. And then my manager texted me saying, wow, they like, if this gets too bad, we're going to have to release it. And then like a day later it got to a million and then it was like two. And it's like, okay, well, we've got to have, so it happened very quickly. I definitely have to break quickly. 3 (24m 34s): What were you experiencing when that happened? Like, were you just shook or, I mean, I wouldn't even know what the field like that would feel that 5 (24m 42s): I was just the completely bemused and like surprised by the whole thing. And it's just, but in a way it's also, I always feel like a little bit, because you know, you'll monitor, you've got those people that want you to do well. And so when something goes well, but it always feels a bit like you were also kind of doing something for them as well. It feels like you're affirming their belief in you. So when something goes, well, it feels like, oh, that's nice. So it felt like that really, it felt like, oh, that's great that something is worked on here. I think I understand a bit more about what works on Tik TOK for me. And like, and it's great, you know, it kind of grows the audit. Like my followers just like, like went off through the recent, like all that stuff is just so helpful because it means that the other songs aren't necessarily in the same place as that song also get benefited. 5 (25m 30s): And so I was like, yeah, I decided to pay, you know? Yeah. It's funny. It was a bit surreal. 3 (25m 38s): Yeah. I, again, I wouldn't even know how to handle it. Like that's, I think that's so cool when those moments happen. Like, whoa, wait, you know, what is going on? Like yeah. 5 (25m 49s): And it comes a point where it's like, it goes beyond a set number and you start to lose the ability to kind of visualize it in your head. So it's, I think beyond 20,000, I'm a little bit like, I don't know what any of that means now. 3 (26m 1s): Yeah. Wow. And so your record is out now, too. 5 (26m 7s): Yeah. 3 (26m 8s): Excited about that. I would imagine 5 (26m 10s): So happy to, like, it feels like a massive weight off my chest, just having that project out. Cause it's been, I've been seeing these songs for a long time now and I'm just so pleased that people could finally just take them into their own lives. And I can, I can like clear, clean my head a bit and I'm like, oh, see, enjoyed the farther out and shattered and all that sort of stuff. But also to start thinking about what's next and all that stuff. 3 (26m 34s): Have you been writing? I would imagine since then. Do you have other things? 5 (26m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. Always writing. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a bunch. I've got a whole bunch. I mean, there's a whole bunch that didn't make the album, but that weren't quite right for it, but might be right for the next project. And, and there's loads as long as, I mean, I don't know. My manager is very much, he was putting me towards the new things, but I, I always feel it it's like little babies. I haven't like that. There's those three they're happy. They still have life. So there's like a lot, there's like a few older ones. So like I have a place in my hospital, but she, what 3 (27m 6s): Release them as a Bayside or something testimony. And then you can have a be like, see, I told you this should have been, 5 (27m 13s): Well, the actually happened actually half of the song that I shaved my manager like a year ago is, did really well on tech talk. And he was like, well, that sounds really great. I'd like, you know, I showed you that song you ended up. Yeah. But I took as a good place to do that. Search there to see how it does it as well, to get sense of that. 3 (27m 37s): Yeah. Because people are watching that aren't necessarily following YouTube. Right. I mean, if it lands in that for you page with 90% of people are paying attention to it just opens up the door for people to find new contents. It's really quite an amazing app. It's yeah. It's crazy. 5 (27m 54s): It is. It is. I think it's like, I know it's still, it's not, I mean, it's not like it's not that new, but I feel like it starts really coming into it's like the phase of being a lot more important than people thought it would be like an episode of people who've been signed off for their careers and add that as a writers. And also it's just like presenters and personalities and it's, it's a career maker. 3 (28m 24s): Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like how YouTube, when I came out, like just changing people's lives. It's insane. 5 (28m 29s): Yeah. 3 (28m 32s): Well, thank you so much for doing this again. A huge apologies about all the confusion and all that stuff earlier. We did. We made, I do have one more quick question for you before I let you go. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists, 5 (28m 48s): Ah, for one thing to keep doing it, like keep, keep writing, keep, like, I feel like writing and being artists and being creative. It's like, it's like being an athlete, keep them, keep the muscle board, keep doing it. And also just this thing of, even though it's, it's like, it's, it's hard to find it. There's a lot of, there's a lot of us out there and it's, it feels very competitive and it feels like your cup feels like constantly in competition with people that are not being heard. And it's very hard to like, get your voice heard, but if you make something good and you really work on it and make sure it's as good as you can make it, that it will find its place. Like I took didn't think I'd ever have any, any kind of like profiles, Tik, TOK, or anything like that. 5 (29m 32s): I just kept at it. And that's the only thing that's really it. I also release music when it's ready release it. Don't do it and sit on it because that won't out, but just, yeah, let it breathe. Let it go.