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June 12, 2022

Interview with Pete Muller

We had the pleasure of interviewing Peter Muller over Zoom video.

Pete Muller is a problem solver. Whether he’s writing songs for his critically acclaimed albums, revolutionizing the way Wall Street works through applied mathematics, or crafting...

We had the pleasure of interviewing Peter Muller over Zoom video.

Pete Muller is a problem solver. Whether he’s writing songs for his critically acclaimed albums, revolutionizing the way Wall Street works through applied mathematics, or crafting crosswords for the New York Times and Washington Post, the hyper-talented renaissance man always seems to have his eye on unlocking some deeper level of understanding, on reaching some higher plane of enlightenment.

With his touching new album, Spaces, Muller takes on perhaps the biggest puzzle of them all: himself. Recorded with Emmy Award-winning producer/arranger Rob Mathes (Bruce Springsteen, Elvis Costello, Elton John, Aretha Franklin, Sting), the collection is lush and timeless, balancing head and heart in equal measure as it wrestles with questions of love and connection and purpose and identity. The writing here is tender and poignant, fueled by profoundly empathetic character studies and remarkably vulnerable acts of self-reflection, and the performances are warm and dynamic to match, mixing singer/songwriter intimacy with classic pop charm and jazz sophistication. Add it all up and you’ve got a rich, moving work of radical honesty, a powerful collection that leaves no stone unturned as it examines the tension between duty and fate, between commitment and escape, between who we are and who we’re meant to be.

After releasing a pair of early albums, he got married, moved to California, returned to the business he’d founded, and became a father, but the fire in his belly never went out, and in 2014, he returned to the studio to record his third album, Two Truths and a Lie. During the recording sessions for that collection, Muller would be introduced to Avatar Studios, which, under its original name of The Power Station, had hosted the likes of Bruce Springsteen, Paul Simon, David Bowie, and Bob Dylan. Like the similarly legendary (and now lost) Hit Factory, the studio was under threat of being sold and redeveloped as condos at the time, and Muller decided to use his resources in partnership with the City of New York and the Berklee College of Music to save, renovate, and re-launch it as a world-class recording and educational facility.

Muller’s new album Spaces is about our greatest quests in life, and how they often bring us right back to where we started; our greatest revelations come not from any destinations, but from the paths we take along the way. Sometimes the puzzle is the answer.

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Hello! It's Adam and welcome back to bringing it backwards! A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieved stardom. 0 (1m 31s): On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Pete Mueller over zoom video. Not only is Pete an incredible singer songwriter, but he's also a very, very successful businessman and philanthropist. Pete was born and raised in New Jersey, and he talks about how he got into music. Started on piano at a very early age music as Holly's been in his life in some capacity, but he did go to Princeton for mathematics. He ended up moving to California to work in finance. 4 (2m 6s): He eventually founded PDT partners. So he has an incredibly successful career in business and as a hedge fund manager. But we talk all about his music career. He talked to us about these songwriting circles that he would have at his apartment, where he did invite a bunch of people over. They would eat dinner and all bring a song. They would have to print out a couple of copies of their lyrics and they would go around and play their song and get feedback. He said, he grew tremendously as a songwriter hosting those writing circles. He talked to us about putting out the first couple albums. He did the success of the song, San Diego. When you come in home, how that song ended up reaching top 30 on the billboard AC charts touring in 2019, starting the live music society, which was originally started to help independent venues with marketing and having some budgets to maybe bring more people in the door and get people more aware that they existed. 4 (3m 5s): But in ended up with COVID happening, being a way for him to give back to the venues, some established venues that may be working to go under or struggle even more. Now that there's no shows happening. He was able to save a venue in San Diego that is near and dear to my heart called the Caswell, which is really incredible. He also talked to us about being a part of Berkeley school of music and saving the legendary power station, the avatar studio in New York city, which is now a studio, which is used for Berkeley for their master's programs. And he also talks to us all about the new record called spaces and the tour they have coming up. 4 (3m 47s): You can watch the interview with Pete on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tech-Talk at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify or apple music, Google podcasts, it would be awesome if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five star review, 5 (4m 11s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 4 (4m 17s): We're bringing it backwards with Pete Mueller. Amazing. Well, I'm Adam again, and this is about you, your journey and music. And I want to talk to you about the new record you have coming out as well. 6 (4m 28s): Fantastic. Excited to do that with you and thank you. Awesome. 4 (4m 32s): Oh, of course, of course. I'm, I'm really excited to actually ask you about the song San Diego when, when you come at home because I'm from San Diego and I want to know the tie there. 6 (4m 44s): Okay. That was from the last record. Right? So, you know, my, my journey in music has been interesting. I, my wife encouraged me at, at first, she said, you know, if you're going to do this music thing, you got to go travel around and play in front of strangers. That's the way you're going to figure out if, if you're already good. And I said, okay, so we are the band signed up for a couple opening act tours around going around the country, playing for Brendan James and Steven Kellogg. You know, so we did 50 shows, I guess in 2019. 6 (5m 25s): But, but before then she had, you know, she had encouraged me, pushed me out there, but then once we were traveling, you know, she kinda was like, Hey, wait a second. You're not home. And there was a conversation. And you know, we all get emotional sometimes. And she, she basically said, you know, that's it, I'm, I'm moving to San Diego. We were actually, the band was, the band was hanging out in new Orleans at the time. And she didn't really to move to San Diego except in the moment if you know what I mean, but I thought, wow, that's, that's a good line for a song that you gotta be careful when you get into, you know, a thing with, with your partner who actually writes songs is they're going to take your line. 6 (6m 12s): So 4 (6m 13s): Right 6 (6m 13s): Now I'm going to move to San Diego came from that. That's the only time in that song. The only time you hear San Diego, maybe I'll move is to San Diego or Peru. 4 (6m 26s): Right. And then, and then it's never brought up again. So I was kind of like, huh, I wonder why it says San Diego at the tie was there. 6 (6m 35s): Well, I just, you know, it was one of those things, you know, when you, when, when you, when you have a strong bond with somebody and you get into a contention, you know, stuff comes out and I'm like, okay, we'll just express it. That song has evolved over time, but it's still one of our favorite live things. 4 (6m 51s): Yeah. That's a great, great song. Very, very cool. So you were born and raised in New Jersey. Is that whatever 6 (6m 57s): I was, I was both. My parents were farmers. My mom was a small town doctor from Brazil and my dad was Austrian. 4 (7m 4s): Oh, wow. And then they moved to the states, like, I mean, were you the first generation born here? 6 (7m 11s): I was, yeah. They came much later in life. My, you know, my mom came for a degree after she, she was a small town doctor. Her dad was, was the town doctor, the only one in town. She went to medical school and early woman in Brazil going to medical school. And then she came back. And as soon as she got back to town, her dad had a heart attack and she became the town doctor. 4 (7m 33s): Oh, wow. 6 (7m 34s): He did that for a number of years and then applied for a grant from the American women's medical association to get a postdoc at UNC. So she came there to get her graduate degree. And that's where she met my dad who had escaped the war in Europe and, you know, eventually made his way to the states. 4 (7m 53s): Wow. Wow. Okay. So born and then you were born in Jersey and I know obviously you have a totally, you know, you have, you have a, a life outside of music, quite a big, big thing going on with math and like everything else you're doing. And as far as the hedge funds and everything else, but I'm curious, like how did you get into music originally? 6 (8m 13s): So I, I took piano lessons and learn classical piano. As you did back then you have learning scales and things like that in classical pieces. And after five years, I was bored to tears and I quit and I was done. And then I ran into a friend of mine, a guy named Tom <inaudible>, who I'm still friends with. And he said, you know, pita you're in the piano. I'm been taking these jazz improv lessons from this cool guy named John Amideo who lives in Denville. And you might like it. And I thought, sure, why not? And so I checked it out and I went there every week for, it was really low. It was less than two years. My dad drove me. 6 (8m 53s): John was a studio musician who had a very attractive wife and you got to chat with her while we were doing lessons. So he didn't mind doing the drive. I was a teenager. I was a teenager. I didn't practice that much, but I learned how to improvise. And John was cool if I didn't practice, whatever you said, you just sit down with piano, I'll be at the drums, you know, go ahead. And, and I just got turned on to the fact that if you're gonna spend a life doing music, being able to create it is what it's about without getting that emotion out from inside you and figuring out how to get it to the world. So that's how I started by learning how to improvise and then wow. 4 (9m 31s): Play with, he was playing drums also while you were playing piano, 6 (9m 34s): He played everything, you know, 4 (9m 36s): But that's cool to be able to kind of start off by playing with somebody, right. I mean, that's a totally different skill set in itself when you, when you learned to play 6 (9m 45s): Totally, totally learning how to keep time and play with the band. You know, that that's the tricky one 4 (9m 50s): For sure, for 6 (9m 50s): Sure was that was really learning jazz and improvisation. And that was kinda my path for awhile. But then later on in life, I went through a tough breakup. And the only way I really, you know, I, I was always playing the piano, but I found myself so completely into building this business. That would, I mean, it was something I was really passionate about math and investing and all that. We don't have to talk about it, but 4 (10m 17s): I'm curious about that too. I don't know 6 (10m 19s): That we can totally hit that. I'm happy, but I stopped playing music and my life kind of blew up because there was all this stuff inside me that wasn't coming up. Like I had a relationship that, that blew up and it just kinda broke my heart. And the only way I, you know, I went to with a, with a friend to Hawaii or hiking around, and I found a piano at a hotel and started playing and he said to me, oh man, you need to be doing that more because that's the first time I've seen you light up since this happened. 4 (10m 48s): Wow. 6 (10m 49s): And I realized that I'd left behind playing music. And that's what got me into songwriting. And I started writing, you know, typical songs that initial songwriters start writing, oh my God, this is the, this is so awful. This is the, this has never happened to anybody before. Never even felt like this before. Oh my God. I heard looking at a million pieces. How could she do this? How could that? And you know, it was, it was a particularly lurid story. So it led to a lot of writing and I realized, okay, wait a second. So part of that is emotional processing. That's great. But if you want to connect with people outside, you have to, you know, make it universal and have it resonate. So I, I started studying songwriting. I actually applied and got into graduate school of musical theater at Tisch, 4 (11m 33s): Really. 6 (11m 34s): And I went for six whole weeks and this was right before nine 11. And then I decided I didn't want to spend as much time in New York city, but six weeks, I learned how to, I learned constructive criticism in a song circle. And I thought, this is amazing. And if the program had been pop song writing or you know, that the kind of music Americana, songwriting, the stuff that I love doing, I would have, I would have stayed musical theater, just didn't turn out to be my thing. I applied what I learned there. And I took over a friend's song circle and started hosting people at my apartment every week for about five years. And I would make them dinner and we would all bring songs. 4 (12m 15s): Wow. 6 (12m 16s): Show up with your songs. You'd, you'd print out two lyrics sheets for everybody. We'd have a great meal and then we'd sit down and everybody would play their song. And he played twice and then people would comment and it was this great community. And I, you know, I wrote so many songs and grew as a songwriter doing that, did a couple of albums. So that was kind of the, the, the beginning of my musical journey. 4 (12m 36s): Interesting. Wow. Well, real quick, how, so you, you said you left music for awhile and it was that when you were going through like college and everything, like how old were you when you decided to revisit piano and when you were in Hawaii, do you remember? 6 (12m 52s): You know, it's a, I'm not great at talking about my age. 4 (12m 56s): Well, I mean, I'm not going to ask you for a date, but like, like where you in, have you finished college at this point where you, 6 (13m 2s): Yeah, I'd already finished, finished college. And I had worked in California and I'd worked with a bunch of really smart math, financial people, but I had a very balanced life. I had a band I was playing with every week, so I was playing music and I was into it as a part of my life. I wasn't singing, 4 (13m 22s): But I was 6 (13m 23s): Jamming and, you know, I was on the piano a lot. And then when I got this opportunity to build a group that was just my dream, you know, can, can you build a quantitative group to beat the market? You know, I'd played poker. I was good at poker. I was like, okay. I figured this out. And it turned out to be really, really hard, but I'm a competitive person. And so I was like, I think I could figure this out. And I did. And I built a great team with a great culture inside a bank and hit a home, run with it, knock on wood. It was really, really fun. And I dropped music and I didn't didn't mind it for awhile because I was pursuing the single-mindedly. 6 (14m 3s): It was really cool and fun. Once we got to the point where we were really successful, I thought, okay, I've proved what I wanted to prove. And then I didn't go, I didn't go back to the music at times, that five-year period where, I mean, I had a grand piano in my apartment. I would play it. You know, it wasn't like, I, I never touched it, but I wasn't really developing, 4 (14m 24s): Actively pursuing it right now. 6 (14m 26s): I was just exhausted by what I was doing mentally. And, and so that, that was the period after that kind of going back to 2000, that's when I got back into it. 4 (14m 36s): Okay. 6 (14m 38s): Pick up the story. So we did a couple of albums and then I, I ended up getting married. The woman I was telling you about before I met her in 2005, my wife Chilean. And I still remember on our second date, I played her all these songs and, you know, she was excited. Wow. You know, you're okay. You're a successful guy, but you also love playing music. Okay. This works for me. But then we ended up getting married, having kids, and somehow longer story that I'll tell some other time. I ended up going back to running the business. But when I did it this time, I said, I'm going to do music in parallel. And I did. I would, you know, whenever I went to New York, because that's where the company was, we moved to California. I would play down in the village. 6 (15m 18s): It's called cafe Vivaldi. That was really fun. But I, but I wasn't writing as much. I didn't, I wasn't exercising that songwriting muscle. And we had a couple of kids and it wasn't. And then, 3 (15m 32s): And the global supply chain is strain. One essential transportation network continues to keep the economy connected 24 7. That network is freight rail. We're increasing, hiring and capacity all while investing more than $20 billion per year into our network to improve reliability every day, we never stop working to better serve our customers because freight rail works. And the global supply chain is strain. One is central transportation network continues to keep the economy connected 24 7. 3 (16m 12s): That network is freight rail. We're increasing, hiring and capacity all while investing more than $20 billion per year into our network to improve reliability every day, we never stop working to better serve our customers because freight rail works 7 (16m 30s): Here at total wine and more you'll find what you love and love. What you find, especially are totally low prices. I'm firing up the grill for burgers and want to impress the neighbors. This Cabernet is sure to take your burgers to the next level. Nice. Wow. And look at that price. Well done. I prefer a medium rare cook. Your neighbors, 11, find what you love, love what you find only at total wine and more with the lowest prices. And the DMV drink responsibly be 21 6 (17m 1s): Financial things happen that were kind of crazy in 2008. And our group ended up spinning out of the bank and becoming independent. So it really wasn't until 2013 or 14, that we were stable. We've taken the whole group out of the bank. We had raised money. We were all set. And I thought, okay, back to music. I still do my third album. And I did. That was 2014. 4 (17m 23s): Okay. 6 (17m 24s): And now the, the one you were the album we're talking about is just about to come out and that's going to be album number five. 4 (17m 29s): Wow. And you, but you, so between 2014 in what, 2020 was the law. That was the fourth record, correct? 6 (17m 37s): Yeah. Dissolve came out. I think it was 2019, maybe 4 (17m 40s): 20, 19, 20 19, 6 (17m 42s): I think. 4 (17m 44s): When did you, when were you doing those? That touring was that 2019 as well? 6 (17m 48s): Yeah. I mean, we started touring earlier before them, but between 19 was right before the pandemic. That was our biggest year. And then we were gearing up to do even more. And 4 (17m 56s): Obviously, yeah. And you had to, I mean, with, even with San Diego, that was a huge song. I made it like, you know, billboard charting on like hot AC and like you had a couple songs that did really, really well on billboard. 6 (18m 6s): No, that was fun. Let you in. And San Diego did all right there. Yeah. On that record. And you know, this, this new record is cool. We've already tin palace was on the, made it to the top 30 on billboard and yeah. So we have high hopes and we had, you know, you know, got a couple, we haven't even released the whole record yet. 4 (18m 25s): Right, right. Wow. I mean to, to it's you have such a cool, like the fact that you, you have done so much, obviously with, with the mathematics and the, with the, with the, with the hedge fund and the banking, and then obviously still being able to kind of go and do your passion and then to succeed at that as well. I mean, that's so cool. 6 (18m 44s): I'll say though, Adam is that it's not like, this is my passion and, and you know, I wasn't doing banking. I mean, it was what we did was, and what we still do, the company is still around and it's still doing fine. You know, it's, it's mathematical research trying to figure out and predict markets with a bunch of really, really smart, interesting people that I love working with. So I have a passion there too. Sure. Typically, you know, everything I do, I tend to be passionate about that. That's it? You know, so, so it it's, you know, when I first started doing music, I thought, you know what, I'm not going to tell people about that side of me because, you know, I I'm just going to kind of present it as a story, like okay. 6 (19m 24s): That's but, but it's part of the whole mate, you know, in addition to being a music nerd and really getting into lyrics and in chord structure and song structure, I'm a math nerd too. All right. I love, love numbers and puzzles. I love puzzles and games. So, you know, you can't deny part of yourself. 4 (19m 42s): Sure. Well, I feel like songwriting in itself is kind of, you're putting together a puzzle, right? I mean, you got to come up with certain pieces and then you kind of put it all together to make it make sense. Like, do, do you see that as well? When you're, when you're writing a song, 6 (19m 54s): Oh, completely. It's the same creative muscle, you know, it's it's, you need an inspiration, you know, you get a great melody for chorus. You need, you need to know what the song is about. You need to know what, okay, what's the deep emotion then there's, there's kind of the, okay, how am I going to tell this story in, in three verses or four verses, how is it going to move on? So that there's new information in each first, how am I going to make it interesting, not too obvious, not too literal, not too vague. And how am I going to hit people's emotions in a fair, authentic way. That really is true to the emotion that I'm trying to express. And, you know, that's tricky using phrases that people haven't used before. 4 (20m 33s): Right. And that that's, I'm sure that's difficult and it's self-defined right. I mean, just with the amount of material that's out, it's like, okay, has this been done before? Has this been said before? And if it has, like, you can take your own spin on it. Anyway, 6 (20m 49s): You know, that, that the secret I find for me is to get to that really quiet place and she'll end, then just let it come to you. I mean, I, I wake up at four in the morning sometimes and I'm like, oh yeah, that's the lyric. That's what I really mean. Right. Or, you know, I, I typically work out every morning and then I have my coffee afterwards. And after I do that, that's when the brain's gone. And if I'm like, okay, let me think about that song. Boom, here's the, here's the insight. And so it it's it's and I, and from what I understand from other people, creativity works like that. Lots of people, if you're in the right state of mind, boom, all of a sudden it flows. If you're not, you can sit in front of a piano forever and you're not going to get something great, but you have to put in the work and you have to figure out, okay, how do I get in that state more often 4 (21m 37s): <inaudible> with, with, you know, the, the band and the current record that you have you've been releasing. Was that like, when did you get your band together? Has it been the same people that have played on the albums since the first couple that you've kept all the way through this fifth record? Or have you had kind of a different flavor of people throughout the, the process here? 6 (21m 58s): So the last three records I've had on, on, you know, in terms of the rhythm section, skip ward on bass and Dave Solomon on drums, that's been great, but the, and they've toured with me. Some it's been great. We've, we've shifted. The touring band is now a quartet that we call the kindred souls. And there are four of us. So Missy salt taro who have been playing music with, for, I guess, more than, more than 10 years. And, and John Hooley who I met as a sax player at Santa Barbara, but also plays guitar and all sorts of things. We, we kind of formed the core of it and did some writing together, everybody sings and plays. And then we added a violinist Morrison, MacDonald who played with us for a while. 6 (22m 43s): And she, she got a gig on Broadway, she's in the Dylan musical on Broadway. So then we found out, we found Aubrey Richmond who also plays violin and sings and also plays mandolin and people can switch off. So our touring configuration now is a quartet and we all sing. We trade off the vocals. It's, it's really cool. And then, you know, we trade off instruments to Hools wills, plays, bass pedals, along with the guitar, but he'll sometimes throw the guitar to Aubrey and then pick up a saxophone, just kind of fun. Missy, who was a singer, but had always had great time learned how to play the Cahone. And so she's a rhythm section. So that touring configurations really fun. 4 (23m 24s): And when you 6 (23m 25s): Go 4 (23m 25s): Ahead, no, go ahead. 6 (23m 27s): So, so they've been on the records, the last few records, and, you know, we, co-wrote maybe a third of the songs in the record. The other ones are all mine, but we, we, we tour around and we just, we have a blast playing together. It's really fun. 4 (23m 41s): That's what about you actually answered my next question. I was going to ask, if you, like, when you write the songs, do you present it all to the band and say, okay, here's the song. This is how it's going to go. And, you know, do here's your part or is it like, here's the structure of kind of what I'm thinking. Let's all jump in and collaborate. 6 (23m 60s): So, so the ones we've written together, we've, we've collaborated, I'm kind of a, I'm more of the task master. So I make sure we get it done. And, you know, I really had a lot of focus on the lyrics. Houles is great on harmonies. You know, Missy is our music inspiration and she'll, she'll be the spark a lot of times or the seed of something that, that leads us on when we collaborate, when it's, when it's my song, you know, I'll take the lead on that. And I'll typically work. I work with Rob Mathis. Who's the guy that produced the last two records. And he's been amazing in, in, you know, working, working with him has been phenomenal. He's really great at suggesting small little tweaks variations. 6 (24m 44s): I've learned a ton from him and we've become pretty good friends working together. And I am honored to work with him because, you know, he's, he's worked with everyone staying Elvis Castello. He does the Kennedy center. 4 (24m 56s): I was going to say that his, that name sounds familiar, like I've heard his name or I've interviewed somebody else that has he's produced before. Or like, yeah, the name, right when you set it up, I think I know who this person is. I've heard this person's name mentioned before. 6 (25m 10s): Yeah, he is. He is a monster. He is really a monster. He's probably the single best arranger of strings and horns of anyone in the world. As you know, he's, he's just brilliant. Every, we all, we all love him there. You know, we have a couple of behind the scenes videos that we've put out for this record that showing our process working together. But, but our meeting, it was, I did this project in New York trying to save a studio. It was called avatar and making 4 (25m 44s): That, I want to talk to you about that. 6 (25m 46s): And so you can, we can talk about that. So when he found out about it, he was like, who are you? Why did you do this? You need whatever you need. I'm your man. And the guy that made my third record, a dear friend, I didn't break the puffy. Unfortunately got a glioblastoma brain tumor. And, you know, he was not going to be able to make another record. And so I said to Rob, you know, I'm like, well, you know, I don't know if you're interested, but I, I need a producer. And he said, well, he said, well, what about Rick? And I told him about Rick. And he said, you know, if that's what you need, let's try it. And it was, it was cool because initially Rob thought, okay, here's this guy he's been really successful at business. 6 (26m 26s): He wants to do music. Okay. You know, he's, he's helped, you know, he's helping the world. Okay. I'll help him out. And then he got to see my, my drive and the intensity that I worked with on the songs and how I pushed myself. And he said, oh, okay, holy shit. I'm in this and become good friends. And, you know, he makes time for me whenever I need it, which is, which is just awesome. And I love it because, you know, in the beginning I would, I would be like, okay, Hey Rob, you know, here's this idea, what do you think of this? And he would deeply deeply listen and he would critique, fit the heck out. So I learned, okay, if I'm going to show something to Rob, I got to make it the best possible. And I love that push of, of, you know, okay, what is Rob gonna say, okay, what's Rob gonna say, okay, now I, maybe I should let me tweak that. 6 (27m 12s): Let me tweak that. So for this record, it was really, it was, it was so fun because the record before this one, he had a lot to say, when he heard the songs, he was like, yeah, no, you got to change this record. There wasn't that much. You'd be like, I mean, he definitely put his stamp on it and they're there, you know, there are a lot of things where it's like, oh man, that was a great idea. But most of them, he was like, oh man, that really works. That's awesome. And, and so the, the, the pushing and the working with him has really, really helped me grow. I'm still gonna, I'm still gonna play him all the songs I write going forward. And like, what do you think? 4 (27m 45s): Yeah. And I'm sure he loves that. Like, cause I, I would imagine, you know, in the situation just being, you know, if somebody said, oh, you're like, ah, you're a super successful business guy. You love music. So it's like, oh, I'm also writing songs. Like he could have probably been like, oh, okay. Like this guy is just, you know, trying to be a musician or whatever, and then sees that you're actually not only super dedicated, but actually really talented. That's probably kind of throw them off guard. I would think for a second, like, oh, okay. He actually knows what he wants. He's working really hard at it. And I wonder if, if you ever get, like, if you felt that at all and not even working with him specifically, but anyone in general, when you kind of tell them like, oh, I want to, I'm a musician. 4 (28m 27s): I want to, I write these records. And do you ever get that kind of like flack back at all? Or no, 6 (28m 33s): You know what I like people to do is to hear the songs, Hear the music, not know anything about me or the band decide it's cool. And then learn, that's better way as opposed to coming here and saying, okay, what is it going to sound like? And what is it about? I mean, for me though, you know, the, the, the humbling experience of saying, okay, and I think this is true for anybody playing music. You know, we all start with the same thing, right? We have our instrument, we have our thoughts, our brains, you know, you want to try to write a song. That's great. You know, you wanna sing it and perform it really well. You know, it's a humbling experience to dive in and, and, and, and learn and grow. 6 (29m 18s): And for me, that's what makes life exciting growing and learning and getting better at things. So that part has been so fun getting in front of a crowd and being able to be comfortable and confident and know that you're gonna give them something that, that is true to yourself. And that touches them. That's so fun. And doesn't, it doesn't happen every time. Right? You can, sometimes you get a crowd in there. They're not India and you have to go, okay, I'm doing this show and I'm putting myself out there and they're going to be some people in it, get it. And sometimes they just love you no matter what you do right now. So it, it, you know, going through that journey and understanding how to, how to stay true to yourself. It's cool 4 (29m 58s): With the tour that you got done and the record, obviously, 2019, you get some momentum. You're like doing a bunch of shows and then COVID happens. And it shuts down everything. Was that when you got involved with like Berkeley school of music, or was that a relationship you had before? Cause I know that you, you worked with them and kind of helped what venues and businesses that were struggling due to what was going on. 6 (30m 23s): That's, that's different than Berkeley. That's a charity that I started called the live music society. 4 (30m 28s): Okay. That has nothing to do with Berkeley. 6 (30m 30s): No, it doesn't. I'll separate those stories for you. 4 (30m 33s): I'd love to hear that. 6 (30m 35s): So when we toured, I went around the country and you know, we're playing for these small venues, 20 front street in lake Orion, Michigan, you know, seven steps up in spring, lake, Michigan, you know, tiny little, little places around the country that were just wonderful. They treated us so well. The patrons were fantastic, great listening audience, people that work there were friendly. And I just looked around and I was like, wow. And this is pre pandemic. Now these people are not making a great living, but they're doing this for the love. They love music. You know, their love of the community is great here. 6 (31m 16s): This is great. You know, it gives people a release and I thought, well, what can I do? I have some resources. And I thought, why don't I start a charity that kind of helps, helps these clubs? You know, because some of them are, you know, have great sound systems, but they're really bad at marketing ticket. Some of them are good at marketing and ticketing, but you know, they're, they're not as good at sound systems or, you know, figuring out how to raise money, you know, philanthropic channels. So can I create an organization that helps these places with best practices, lets them, you know, retain their ownership, but just does some good in the world and gives people grants. And right until we started, I got a bunch of friends together, put a board together, put a bunch of money into it and we've given away a few million dollars already, but then the pandemic hit and all of a sudden, instead of trying to help them be better, we were trying to help them to survive. 4 (32m 10s): Wow. So you started that before the pandemic. I didn't realize that. Okay. Wow. 6 (32m 15s): And we was right before the pandemic and then we just shifted gears and we said, wait a second. How, how can we, you know, you know, how can we help? So we just gave unrestricted grants up to $50,000 to a whole bunch of clubs. 4 (32m 29s): It's amazing. 6 (32m 30s): And you know, just to say, you know, go, you know, stay. And the only thing they had to tell us was, okay, we are going to make it through. We're going to stay in business. You know? So we've helped a lot of places and it w it was just, it was wonderful to be able to do that. 4 (32m 42s): That is so cool because a lot of those venues are the, I mean, obviously the smaller ones were the ones that are closing down and those are the ones that gave, give the opportunity to the smaller artists, the people that are trying to, you know, make it and play. They maybe they never played salt lake city. So the only spot they're going to be able to play is this room of maybe 150 people or less versus, you know, a big theater. That's gonna book, you know, 1200 seater person, you know, artists, no matter what weekend it is. 6 (33m 13s): And that's, that's exactly it. That was the idea. And that these places are great because if you are starting out as an artist and you want to travel around, having a network of these places would be amazing. Right. But you know, it's funny, you know, it, there's so few people in the world that are like, okay, I just want to do something good. So we would call them up and say, you know, we would advertise this and say, you know, you could just apply for the grant. And they're like, okay, what's your angle? What do you want? Right. No, we just want to talk about this. And if you're interested in applying and we want to give, we're giving out free, okay, what's the angle, but what, what do you really want? And then, you know, we, we ended up talking to people with Neeva and, and, and the people that were trying to do the, save our stages thing around naturally. And they, you know, the clubs knew them and they said, no, no, these guys are good. 6 (33m 54s): They're, they're actually. And so that made it a little easier. And now we, you know, we get the grants and, you know, we, we, we, we turn a lot of people away, but we give out a lot of money and it's it's yeah. It's been really rewarding and fun. And 4 (34m 9s): That's so awesome. That is so awesome. Because those are the ones that you see. And you're like, oh, this is so heartbreaking that this club is shutting down. They couldn't survive. COVID. I mean, there's one in San Diego, the Casbah, which had a tremendous amount of support from just the city of San Diego. Cause it's been this iconic venue that has been there forever. And, you know, bands like Nirvana came out of there and you'll hear these bands that have played. And it was just like, so, you know, it's just this iconic place and it was able to survive. Thank God. But I can't imagine like it going away. Right. I mean, and you were saving so many of these venues that were all struggling through the same thing. 6 (34m 47s): How many seats does the Casper have? 4 (34m 49s): I think it's 200. Maybe 6 (34m 51s): We might've, they might be a grantee. 4 (34m 54s): Oh, maybe that'd be awesome. If you saved that. I know that they were struggling and people were freaking out buying their merchandise online and doing a lot of stuff like that to support them. 6 (35m 5s): We did. We actually did. 4 (35m 6s): Oh, that's cool. Then. Thank you times a thousand. That's so, I mean, that's so amazing. I've 6 (35m 12s): Never been there, but I recognize the name. Yeah. 4 (35m 15s): That is so cool. I mean that venue, people need to write you a thank you letter. Anyone that I know from San Diego that is watching this, and these are right here. Thank you. Let her, cause that is so cool. That is the place that people have always latched onto. And it's about, I think 200, maybe two 50, you could squeeze in there. 6 (35m 36s): I mean, at the reason I asked you that is our criteria is up to 300 and it, and it's funny because I we've given away so many grants that I'm like, I recognize that name, but I didn't even need it. I didn't know the clubs. So that, 4 (35m 46s): That is so awesome. That is so awesome. Like again, my favorite place in San Diego to ever go see shows and, and they would always be the one that would have these smaller bands play there and then they would get big. I mean, foo fighters played there doing bands like that. You would never think the white stripes came through there. And it's like, these people that have had this such major success, I'll start it out. The first place they played in San Diego was the Casbah 6 (36m 12s): That's it. And there are a lot of these venues all around the country, right. And ideas they're going to go away. Right. Is it just, you know, rents keep going up and it's, it's hard to do the, it's hard to run a business. So giving them some love and some support and some money, and, and now with the pandemic, hopefully being over or almost over, you know, we'll share, we're going to shift our attention back to okay. Helping them be excellent. And you know, there's something magical about a 200 seat venue, especially if you've got a quiet audience, but even if you don't, but I mean, just the small venues are fantastic. And if you can get philanthropic community support there, if you can figure out how to help them do that, they can sustain and that's even better. 6 (36m 60s): So, so that's a, that's a live music society. The other thing was that was power station 4 (37m 5s): Power station, right. That was with Berkeley, correct? 6 (37m 8s): Yeah. So, so that is, you know, I I'm, I'm, I'm back on the board at Berkeley, but I served nine years. And when I, when I joined Roger Brown, who was the president at the time said, you know, whenever you joined the board, you have to figure out something, that's your thing. And I said, you know, the thing is right now, I'm doing music and I'm really trying to do music and I'll, I'll try to figure out how to help Berkeley. I'm sure I'll figure something out. Well, after I did that third album with Rick DePaul, I said, okay, Rick, I need a studio in New York. I need to build something. Let me, let me, let me get, you know, a studio apartment or something like that. Somewhere, a one bedroom apartment, you can build it out for me. And that's where I'm going to do all my studio stuff. 6 (37m 48s): It'd be great. And Rick said, okay, I'm on the hunt. I'm looking for it. And we had recorded at this place called avatar is iconic studio, that Springsteen lady Gaga, you know, the cast album for Hamilton and 10,000 other records. You've heard it. It's kind of on the level of that. And we'd recorded there. And he said, you know, Pete, and this is already after he had been diagnosed with a glioblastoma. He said, I just had this crazy idea last night. Maybe, maybe my brain is working. But I just thought, you know, I heard avatar is going to go out of business. They're going to sell it to somebody and they're going to make it a condom. And that's such a shame because everybody loves that studio, but it's just economically not viable. 6 (38m 32s): And what if you kind of, what if you bought it and kind of help make it, you know, the Berkeley school of music and in New York, because Berkeley is in Boston and, you know, you could build out the fifth floor and do a little recording studio for yourself there, you know, and you'd be given back. And, and I, you know, I, you know, I'd been in the building there and, and, you know, kind of, you remember that movie Brazil with all the ducks and the pipe, that's, that's what the wiring of, of Atala They had a leak in the roof. So instead of fixing it, they would have like, this pipe come down and like drain the water to Flores. 6 (39m 14s): So it would go someplace. I mean, like, it was, it was that silly and yeah, it, it, but it was just this crazy iconic place in the room sounded amazing. And then somehow I just said, well, what the hell? And I went to Roger Brown, head of Berkeley. And I said, you know, if you find a guy that could run this project that I trust that you trust that could make this happen, I'll, I'll make it happen. And long story short, he did, he found this guy named Steven Weber, who was amazing. And I went to New York city and I said, Hey, want to partner with us on this? You can save an iconic studio and you can bring the Berklee school of music to Manhattan. And it was a good day. And they said, yes, wow. 6 (39m 54s): They kicked him off $6 million. And we did it. And we, we opened a couple years ago. And first class first, a master's class was oversubscribed with 80 students. And the studio is still working. It took, it took four or five years to rebuild it. And just this week I wasn't in New York for it, but it was, it was, it was actually last night, they, they got a landmark conservation award awards in New York. You know, the empire state building was honored. And, you know, for preserving classical building, even though it was a studio from 1970, but it still, it was, it was so iconic that they got the award, the architect David Parker was, was there. 6 (40m 39s): And he did such an amazing job, so incredible California practicing with my band, but, you know, cheering for them. And, and so that was kind of the Berkeley New York city. 4 (40m 49s): That's amazing. So you can take classes there now, and it like, as a part of Berkeley's master program, 6 (40m 55s): It is actually like a 4 (40m 56s): Satellite school type. Yeah. 6 (40m 58s): That is where the master's program now is for Berkeley. Oh, 4 (41m 1s): Really? Okay. Wow. 6 (41m 3s): It's really cool. And you know, the, the staff and the faculty there is fantastic. And you know, I do have that studio there so I can record there too. And it's yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's been a win-win for, for everyone 4 (41m 16s): That is amazing, 6 (41m 17s): Really fun. So for me, it's just, you know, what, I love to spend my time creating and inspiring, right? I've done a lot of things in life and I'm going to hopefully keep doing them. But if, you know, if you're simply just doing stuff for yourself, that's old, 4 (41m 35s): Right. 6 (41m 35s): Pursuing your own success. I mean, I'm still loving writing and creating music and playing it. I'm going to keep doing that. But if I'm not giving a gift to other people, if I'm not helping other people or showing them the way or showing them, Hey, you know, you can just kind of do this at any stage of life. You can, you can write, you can create and just do whatever, figure out what you want and then work hard at it. I love that. 4 (41m 57s): I love that so much. Cause that's, I mean, that's the reason why my wife and I started this doing this podcast was it, I was doing radio. I did radio for 17 years. And I was like, how, how do these bands, how do these people, you know, go from, you know, little town to now there, some, you know, really established, they're making money. They're doing what they love doing. How did they do that? So just collecting stories from all these different artists and rockstars to kind of give their, you know, feedback to, to people that don't, that are looking for that same, same bit of knowledge, like how did the, you know, so-and-so get to do whatever it is. 4 (42m 39s): And then 6 (42m 40s): The theme that you get, like when you've, you've talked to so many people, right, that have been on this journey that I've had most success. When people ask you, what's the thing that you, what do you, what do you take away? 4 (42m 50s): I'm going to ask you it at the end about advice for aspiring artists, but a ma a big one is always just don't give up. Like, you never know what, when it's going to land, it could be like a lot of times it'll be the last time, the last place you ever expected. Like, oh, I was playing, I'm trying to think. I've heard a story where somebody was playing on the street of Santa Monica and they had just lost the record deal. And they're, they're playing in. Somebody happened to come up while they're busking and they worked for some label or they were a entertainment lawyer then ended up getting them signed to a major label. And like, they just change. It just takes one person to really change everything for someone, 6 (43m 31s): You know, we can skip to that part of the advice, which is, that's exactly what I will say. Something very similar to that. And you know, which is, but, but then I'll say, why do you keep so keep going, right. If you, you know, but understand why you're keeping going. Right. So what are the things for me? You know, when I, when I talk to people that are managing me, you know, about marketing strategy and all that, my eyes start glazing over. I'm like, okay, whatever, this isn't fun when I'm hanging out with my band writing or playing or doing cover tunes. And I'll tell you about that in a second, that's just fun for me. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this stuff. That gives me energy, but it takes me in this direction. And I think that's the main thing is that you have to work really, really hard. 6 (44m 15s): And working really hard is about either only do that. If you know why you're doing it, or else you're burning, you burn out, but you have to figure out a way to work. That's just fun as well. Right? The combination of being driven. And if you're only trying to music 7 (44m 33s): Here at total wine and more, you'll find what you love and love. What you find, especially are totally low prices 8 (44m 40s): That Roseanne you recommended was a hit. 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What you find, especially are totally low prices. 13 (45m 40s): My friends and I are hanging out this weekend and I'm on cooler. Dude, 7 (45m 43s): The seltzers and sparkling wines are the coolest. They'll make you the king of the cooler. 13 (45m 48s): Oh, that sounds good. Wow. I can fill my cooler without empty in my wallet. 7 (45m 53s): Find what you love, love what you find. Only at total wine and Laurel with the lowest prices and the DMV drink responsibly be 21. 6 (46m 3s): I mean, for me, it's not about money or, or, or really fame, but if you're trying to do it for either of those reasons, it's going to be hollow. Even if you succeed, even if you make a ton of money and you get famous, there's always more, there's always more. But if you're doing it from, I just want to figure out how to be the most authentic artists I can be and have the best chance of touching somebody. Who's ready to hear the song and just create joy that goes on forever. You can do that until you die. And so that's it for me. And, you know, I find that when I get hung up, that's when I have some predetermined idea of what I want to do. You know, what I want to have happened, as opposed to simply creating the best piece of music that I can and having fun with it. 4 (46m 44s): Yeah, no that makes, and, and that makes so much sense because it's like when you're, when it becomes, well, I'm curious because like, I'll talk to artists too. That'll have a hit, right. Or something will work for say on Tik TOK. And then it's like, I like to ask them if they then try to replicate that same thing that they had done. And nine times out of 10, when they try to do that, it doesn't land. And then the next thing that they don't think is going to be the next moment for them or the next song for them ends up being that particular song. It's just so fascinating to me 6 (47m 20s): Completely. I think, I think one, there's a lot of randomness involved 4 (47m 24s): Right 6 (47m 25s): By to see you busking, right. Or who happens to hear the song you're in a club and decides that, Hey, that should be, that'll be great for my commercial or my movie or whatever it is. There is definitely randomness, but, but there's also just continuing to put yourself out there and continue to challenge yourself. I think if you play the same song over and over again, at some point, I mean, we're still, we're going to play San Diego on this tour, but maybe the tour after we'll just stop playing it for you. You know, it's just a, okay, it's a little stale, let's do something new. And in fact, the hardest part right now is I've written a bunch of songs since space is the record. That's coming out a bunch of songs since then. And I kind of want to play those, play the space, the songs a lot, but I also still love it. 6 (48m 9s): Fortunately, I still love doing it. 4 (48m 12s): When did you start writing spaces? Has it been like sensei when you wrapped up 2019 and that tour and that, that record, or did you take time during the pandemic to be like, what is going on with this world? 6 (48m 25s): Yeah, I'm trying to, you know, the, I think, I think 2020 was basically when the writing was happening. I still, I resurrect the song circle and it, you know, we did that, did that through zoom. 4 (48m 41s): Oh, you did? Yeah. 6 (48m 42s): Yeah. So with some new people, some, some good friends and you know, we, we would go five or seven week bursts and we've done a bunch of them now and you have to come up with a song every week. And it's really great because you're, you know, when you're, for me having that deadline and being forced to write is really important. That's a piece of advice I'd give anybody that's that, that wants to write and grow is force yourself to write on a regular basis is just figure out, you have to write it, having to write a song. And everybody in the circle agrees. It's like, okay, I have to write a song. Well, that's great discipline. And, and then you went to when you're forced to do it, and some of the best songs I've written have been like shipment song circle is in like five hours. 6 (49m 26s): And I haven't even started, okay, here I go. And, and I'm like, okay, I don't know if there's any good and you play it. And they're like, oh my God, you just wrote that. That's great. And you know, it doesn't always work like that, but what was that, that pressure of a deadline and wanting to have something helps. 4 (49m 41s): I like that. Cause I've, I've heard that advice as well. Like write a million songs, like write a thousand songs or whatever. Somebody will say, write a song every day for a year and see what you come up with. Because at one point you might, you'll something will eventually, I would think click and you're like, oh, these are getting better. These keep getting better. 6 (50m 1s): I think. Yeah. I think, I think that's great advice for when you start, but you also want to have some kind of feedback cycle versus 4 (50m 8s): I like the feedback cycle 6 (50m 9s): Too. Yeah. Yeah. And having, so having friends that'll listen to it and tell you what they really think, but are also encouraging. I think that's really important. Want to grow as a musician and you realize, you know, being a, being a musician and choosing that as, as your life path for me, I, you know, I always played music and then I chose to do other things, to earn a living. And I think that was a great choice for me. And I think that's a great choice for other people, because if you, if you set yourself up so that if you do not succeed at the music, you're going to really struggle in life. That's a problem. Now you can get lucky and do that. But typically you end up, if you want to start a family, it's a hard path. 6 (50m 53s): But if you have a source of income that allows you to have some freedom and all that, and then you can pursue the music really seriously peril. I think that's an easier, healthier thing. And then of course, if you get enough success with the music or if, or if you're young enough and you don't have those responsibilities, you want to give it a shot for five years but I think that's great, but if you're, if you're spending a lot of time doing that and it can be a tough life. 4 (51m 21s): Sure. 6 (51m 22s): Because being able and you know, one of the great things now though, is it's possible to be an independent artist. And if you're reasonably good at finding your fans and marketing, and you're pretty competent, you can figure out a way to make a living, you know, with the, the, the way the world is working and evolving with the web, if you can actually access fans anywhere around the world, you might be able to create enough of a base. And there are places like Patriana that help artists do that. But you, you know, that that's, that's a certain way of making a living. There are a lot of other ways. So I, I think the advice of, if you're going to do that for a living, it should be like what you have to do. That's your only choice, 4 (52m 2s): Right? No, that's great. That's great. I wonder if you have any advice on marketing in general to people that are theirs, is that, you know, I mean, I would think that that's a huge, probably part of the music in general, right? Like how you could write a great song, but how to get people to hear it. 6 (52m 20s): You know, that's a challenge. I think I'm still working on that. I'm still working on that. How do, how do you crack that code? I mean, we've got the radio, there are different ways to do that, but, but finding how to engage with, I haven't reached a place where I'm engaging with thousands of, of listeners. So I'm probably the wrong person to give that advice except to say, be really authentic, present yourself, not, not an image you want to project of yourself, not something that you think people are going to like, but just be yourself and shine as brightly as you can, and, you know, show your flaws and your vulnerabilities. 6 (53m 6s): And, but just be, be real. And if, if that's gonna, if you're gonna, if you have an audience they're gonna, they're going to be attracted to that. That's the main thing. 4 (53m 17s): Yeah. That's amazing. Well, I cannot wait for the rest of the record to come out. I've, I've had a chance to hear it and I love it. I love the, like the, the video you did for Tim palace is amazing. And everything that you have coming out on this new record is really, really impressive. 6 (53m 32s): Thanks. That was my friend, Chris Morgan, who, who was actually hanging out with the band here in California. And he's so great. So creative and, you know, lucky to be able to work with him. He has got such a great eye. So what, what else did you like on the record that you do? 4 (53m 50s): I was listening to, it was the, was the God and democracies that does that's the Stryker to right. 6 (53m 58s): And actually, you know, that was an in-between song. We 4 (54m 1s): Realize an in-between song. Okay. I'm trying to, I got to find the thing now, the link, I don't know if there was song titles on here. Oh, there was okay. I like the eight song gone. That's a good, 6 (54m 16s): Yeah. Yeah. We just released the, the video for that. And that, that's a it's interestingly, that was the song that to the people, people in the band thought it had the most emotional resonance. 4 (54m 28s): That's a great song. It's a great song. When I listened to the record, I remember I'm more on song cause I'll be listening to it when I'm driving or listening to it when I'm just around the house and then I'll be like, oh, okay. Song number eight. That was a good one. Then mental note, mark it down and okay. That I haven't seen the video though. I need to check out the video. 6 (54m 46s): It just came out. I think it was, it was like a week or two ago. We can just hit it. Yeah. 4 (54m 52s): Amazing. And what was the concept behind the video? Since I haven't seen it, 6 (54m 56s): So we shot it in half of it in Topanga canyon in this really cool geodesic house. 4 (55m 3s): Oh 6 (55m 4s): Cool. And the other half and the Hills of Santa Barbara near where I was and you know, it's about being, being angry and getting over it and seeing to the other side of it. So the whole idea was going to be simply me looking emotional in the video and playing the piano. And then we were going to have a female figure in, in, in there and Gus black, who directed it, brought his friend melody Casta, who was this gorgeous French actress. And she would, you know, basically the whole idea was you were just going to see a silhouette of her in the background, walking away and all that. And then I saw her and I just like saw the expression on her face and said, we need to film her walking around and being emotional and sad too. 6 (55m 47s): And we did. And I mean, she killed it. So she's half the video. It came out, came out wonderful. And then you just want to look at her, but yeah. You know, it's just like walking in the house and you know, it's just, you feel the emotion of the song when you do it. And, and then the end of the end of the video, we, we filmed in the Mason Santa Barbara and we've got a couple of German shepherds and they were walking along with the arrows Kind of cool. We got to get, we had to drive up from Topanga and race up just to make it in time for sunset. Just run out to the Mesa and oh 4 (56m 21s): Wow. 6 (56m 22s): The camera equipment that we, we, we got it done. It's really fun. 4 (56m 26s): That's cool. Are there any other videos that you have for the songs coming out? 6 (56m 30s): Yeah. Yeah. We filmed, 'em light up the night, which is we're going to release that with the album on May 20th. And that was Lenny bass. We directed the, let you in video from the last record, which was our most successful for us, that six that we had, we had over a million views on YouTube. 4 (56m 46s): I mean, that's successful, that's accessible for anybody. 6 (56m 50s): Great. So he did that one and that's a duet with Missy Saul, Tara as well. And we filmed that at this, this, this kind of let, let's just say, downscale motel in Oxnard. And you know, so the story has, I'm in one room playing the keyboard and Missy's in another room singing and it's like the bands on tour. And there's this couple that they're not really a couple, they're both going through something emotional and something tough and kind of processing it and light up the night is about getting back in touch with yourself so that the visuals are, you know, these two different people in a hotel and we're singing in our rooms and you know, they're kind of like emerging. 6 (57m 34s): And then all of a sudden the room starts lighting up and glowing as if, you know, there's this just like this realization that happens at the end of the song. And then, and then Houles, who's in our band. All of a sudden shows up in the guitar and Martha couldn't make it, but she was so we, we green screened her on a TV playing a violin solo. 4 (57m 52s): Oh, that's cool. That's really cool. 6 (57m 54s): It came out really great. So we got that one and there's one more video that we've actually got in the bag called the other side. And that one, that one features a ton of dancing in a diner. That that is just a feel good song. That's a song about when your, your partner, your spouse, your partner, whatever is grumpy and you have to get them to the other side. 4 (58m 18s): Yeah. That's kinda there's that early on in the record. I can't remember what number on the, on the, the, the track listing, but I, I know this, I know exactly what song you're talking about. 6 (58m 27s): Yeah, it is. And that one that one's going to be coming out in like two weeks, we're going to release the video. Oh, cool thing. I won't hit, but the video is going and that ones that that's there. I love them all. I love all the videos. It's really that they're, they're really fun. 4 (58m 40s): Is it fun to shoot those and do that out of 6 (58m 42s): It? That was totally fun. When I first started doing this, I was like, wait a second. I don't know if I want to be in front of the camera and doing that. And then each subsequent one, I shot. I'm like, oh, this is kind of fun. This is great. I mean, eventually I think it gets old. If you're shooting a lot of videos, I talked to my friends in successful bands and they're like, man, I hate the video shooting process. I'm still on that. Oh my God, this is really fun. Let's go, let's take a day and just play and have a good time. So, 4 (59m 9s): And there's at least on the, the, the copy of the record that I have. There's a few bonus songs. Are those going to be on the actual release? Are you S are those being held back for, for other reasons, 6 (59m 21s): We we're releasing 12 songs on spaces. And in those three bonus tracks that you heard, we'll be in a, a two LP set, which I don't think we'll be available for. I dunno, I don't know. Maybe five months from now, all the, you know, you hear about delays in production, but you just, you can't, you can't print stuff quickly, 4 (59m 43s): So 6 (59m 45s): We'll have to wait for that till September. 4 (59m 47s): Okay. Well, there there'll be stoked on that. Cause I really liked those songs as well. There'll be worth the away for sure. 6 (59m 54s): You know, we, we recorded 15 and I thought, okay, we're going to, we have to narrow it down for the release, but I want to share everything because we really put effort into all of them. So. Okay. 4 (1h 0m 4s): Yeah. All great songs. And you are doing a tour. Is that what you sent as well? 6 (1h 0m 7s): We are, we are. We're just putting it together or we're going to be, we'll do a party in New York and we're going to, according to the Barbara and then we're doing a number of venues in California. Where else are we going? We're going to Boston, New York state Nashville. We're playing a city winery Nashville, or 4 (1h 0m 27s): Really? When is that? I'm in Nashville now. 6 (1h 0m 29s): Are you really, are you here? May 17th. 4 (1h 0m 34s): Oh, I'm going to be there May 17th. Okay. 6 (1h 0m 36s): 17th. Yeah. We'd love to have you 4 (1h 0m 39s): Write that down right now. So I don't forget. 6 (1h 0m 41s): We'll put you on the list. 4 (1h 0m 43s): That'd be so fun. 6 (1h 0m 48s): Yeah. We've, we've played there before and love that venue. It's great. Yeah. I think we're going to do something in Alabama. It's not confirmed yet. We've gave a whole bunch of other dates and then, and then we're going to go out more in July and you know, we'll be in Michigan and Colorado and you know, it, it, it's part of it for me is I can't tour 200 days a year. I think, I think 50 is kind of the most I could do. And if I'm at it's 4 (1h 1m 13s): A lot, 6 (1h 1m 14s): I mean, I have a family, you know, I like it. It's great. And you know, cultivating fans in places and, you know, getting the experience of playing stuff like that really, that really helps you grow as a musician through 4 (1h 1m 27s): So amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really, really, really appreciate it. Pete. 6 (1h 1m 33s): My pleasure Adam was really fun talking to you. It's yeah. And I'm going to go get to go down to rehearse with the band now and play some music!