Interview with Jennifer Decilveo

Hello it's Adam. Welcome back to bring in a backwards, a podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Jen to Silvio over zoom. Jen was born and raised in New Jersey, and she talked to us about how she got into music was put in piano lessons in middle school and really fell in love with the piano and creating music. From that age forward, she didn't start writing songs and showing them to people until she was a senior in high school. She talked to us about moving to Los Angeles, where a friend of hers was working with Macy gray. 3 (2m 32s): When she made it to Los Angeles, she was able to co-write with this person who was working with Macy gray, which led to more opportunities to co-write. And she said she would just say yes to everybody and everything. We talked about, the success of her song rise up, which was nominated for a Grammy in 2016, working with Katelyn Smith, Beth Dido of the band gossip and a ton of other super successful artists. She talked to us about songwriting during COVID and working over zoom. The most recent record she wrote with Christina Perry and the song high, which she wrote originally with Caitlyn Smith, which Miley Cyrus ended up taking and putting on her new record attention. 3 (3m 17s): Make sure to check out the video interviews we have up as well, which are all on our YouTube channel and Facebook page at bringing it backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel and like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tech-Talk at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcasts, it would be amazing if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five star review. 4 (3m 43s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 3 (3m 49s): We're bringing it backwards with Jen to Silvio. Well again, thank you so much, Jen, for doing this. I'm really excited to talk with you about your, your career and your journey in music and what you have going on currently. 5 (4m 3s): Cool. Happy to be here. 3 (4m 6s): Amazing. I saw are you born and raised in Jersey? 5 (4m 10s): I sure am. I'm from Mala, New Jersey and I I'm an east coast or Ryder Jai. 3 (4m 17s): All right. Well what was it like growing up in New Jersey? And it was a big music. There's a lot of music going on there. At least there was in the late nineties, early two thousands with that emo punk scene. 5 (4m 28s): I mean, to be honest, I wasn't a part of any of it. So pretty normal, a pretty normal life there. If I'm honest, like I, I went to school, I had piano lessons. I was on the soccer teams, you know, suburb suburban life, I guess you could say. 3 (4m 46s): When did you start playing piano? 5 (4m 49s): Me when I was in sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade. I can't remember so sometime around there. 3 (4m 59s): Okay. So it started to not like you weren't like a five-year old going right into music and then doing that throughout your whole life. It sounds like you started late middle school. 5 (5m 8s): Yeah, exactly. Okay. 3 (5m 11s): Yeah. Yeah. What drew you to piano? 5 (5m 14s): My parents put me in lessons. I mean, like they put me in lessons. I always loved music, but like when I, once I, me and my siblings, they just put us in piano lessons and me, I stayed and no one else did and I just loved it. And I asked for piano and keyboards and got very rinky-dink things and have been collecting keyboards ever since. 3 (5m 42s): Is there anyone else did any of your siblings stick with it or no? 5 (5m 45s): No. Nobody did. I don't know. It's just, it was just me, I guess I was the only one I really liked and we all do different things, but I, I really, I don't know. I really loved music 3 (5m 57s): Where you just a big fan of music prior to taking the lessons and it would just happen to be, your parents were like, oh, we should put y'all on mute in piano. And you're like, okay, let's, let's do it. And then you really fell in love with it. Like how did that, 5 (6m 9s): That's a great question. I think I'm going to ask my mom that because I don't know the answer. I don't know why music happened for, do you know what I mean? Like, I really don't know. 3 (6m 21s): He just remembered that your mom was still it, that you were told to go on piano and then you loved it. 5 (6m 27s): I don't know. I think it's like one of those things when you're younger. I mean, I didn't, yeah. I didn't even know it existed. Like this was, you know, I didn't, I couldn't, obviously I couldn't play before I started to play. I wasn't like a prodigy or anything, but I just, I just remember when I got, when I started taking lessons, I was like, well, I really like how this makes me feel. And I just spent like a hell of a lot more time than my siblings w working on music. And so I just stayed with it obviously. 3 (7m 3s): And did you start writing songs pretty quickly or were you just mainly just trying to learn the instrument, 5 (7m 9s): Learn the instrument then started writing songs. They weren't good though. Initially, 3 (7m 14s): When did you start writing songs? 5 (7m 16s): Like when I was a senior in high school, junior, sometime around then. 3 (7m 20s): Okay. 5 (7m 21s): By myself. And then I started collaborating like later, later on after college and stuff, I was like, obsessed with it. I don't, I don't really know no idea. Like, I don't know like why it was just something that really, I just felt good doing music. So I just, I guess I just kept doing, 3 (7m 43s): When you were writing, when you were writing those first songs, did you ever show them to anyone? 5 (7m 47s): Yeah, they were awful and I will never show them to anyone ever again. 3 (7m 51s): But you are showing them to be able to read you, play them out or was it just like you had them recorded? Like, tell me about that. 5 (7m 56s): Yeah. I would play it for people and like my, my friends, they, they liked, they liked them, but I think like they don't have, I think they just liked it because it was me and I was the only one who did music and they thought it was cool, but like, they're not, they're not good. So, 3 (8m 14s): Well, I mean, if it's the first stuff you've written and you know, you're probably not going to come out the gay reading, huge hits. I mean, maybe people do, but for the most part, I would think that that's kind of just the stepping stone to getting better. So you played in that in senior years when you started writing songs, did you end up going to college for music or like when did you, you know, like how did the progress? 5 (8m 37s): No, I would tell you, I went to college for a business and then I was in like jazz improv group and taking like music classes, but I didn't, I've never like gone to school for music. That was definitely just, just, I just, I just kinda kept doing it regardless of what I was doing for like work or I was like big into soccer and I was always the girl on the soccer team and did music, you know? So, 3 (9m 7s): Yeah. Well then how did you end up getting into songwriting and composing and producing? Like how did that all and end up how that career path then began? 6 (9m 16s): Your dog is more than just your bestie with the cutest face, ever get to know your dog on a genetic level with an embarked dog DNA test developed by veterinarians and PhDs. 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Download the app or go to bet. 2 (11m 12s): mgm.com and use code champion 200 to win $200 in free bets. If either team hits a three in any NBA playoff game, visit bet mgm.com for terms and conditions. 21 years of age or older, the wager Virginia only new customer offer. All promotions are subject to qualification and eligibility requirements rewards issued as non withdrawal free bats are site credit, free bets expire seven days from issuance, please gamble responsibly gambling problem. Call 1 8 8 8 5 3 2 3500. 5 (11m 43s): Oh yeah. I just basically, well, I quit my job as one would do, if they're unhappy. And then I moved to LA, I had a friend who assigned to Macy gray and we started writing songs together and that was kinda like the beginning. And I started doing sessions and continued to do 3 (12m 2s): Well. That's kind of a big move though, to move. Just be like, okay, you must have known that you were pretty good at what you're doing to make the decision to say, you know what? I don't like this job. I'm going to move all the way to LA and then have this person that you knew and kind of co-sign for you to let you write with them. 5 (12m 17s): I feel like I was pretty delusional. I don't think I was good. 3 (12m 26s): You didn't think you were good or the in, okay. I kind of, I guess like, go ahead. Sorry. 5 (12m 33s): No, I mean, like, I didn't know what was good and what wasn't do you know what I mean? Like I, so I think looking back, I don't think I had like a good, a good, 3 (12m 43s): Like baseline for what would be a good or a bad song. 5 (12m 47s): Exactly. 3 (12m 48s): Okay. But you were sending these songs to that, to your, to your friend that works for Macy gray then 5 (12m 55s): No, we were writing together and we were writing together. 3 (12m 58s): Okay. So, but I mean, just, just to, prior to that, to get out there and have this person say, okay, yeah, you can write with me or were they just a good enough friend to be like, oh yeah, sure. You can sit around and we can screw around and end up. Is that kinda what happened? 5 (13m 11s): Exactly. Yeah. And then we just started like making songs and they got, they got to be really good. I mean, Macy's really good. My friend honey was really good. So like, I was probably like a month straight company and learning like crazy. And then I just started doing, you know, you just hit up different people and one thing led to another and then yeah. I mean, that's, it's, it's pretty, like, I think a natural thing, like coming to LA and not knowing anybody. And then you just start like creating connections and like making friends and you just do sessions. I mean, like that, I mean, like, it sounds so simple, but like, I would just like work with work with kind of like anyone. Cause I was so hungry and like so excited to be doing music. 5 (13m 54s): And, and then obviously like since then, I've been a bit more, I guess, intentional with the stuff I work on. It's still the same, like passion and hunger and drive. 3 (14m 8s): What was the first like person or was there like kind of the first victory you had? And when it was like, oh my gosh, I got to work with so-and-so or this song really did well. Or somebody used this, a song I wrote, like, what was the kind of the, was there a moment that kind of pushed you to keep going? 5 (14m 29s): I think like any time that I'm working with someone on the song is, is good. It's very inspiring. And I think back in like the beginning of, of working, like in 2011 and 12 and just like writing, it was just like getting a song done and like making it sound good was super, super cool to me. But I would say probably like the first like big hint that I had that did well was rise up and to see like people like non-music industry, people respond to that. That was pretty cool. 3 (15m 1s): Sure. And did you know that was going to be a hit, like kind of when you, when you wrote it, what is it like? Oh, okay. I real feel real good about the song and then obviously it becomes like a Grammy nominated. 5 (15m 14s): Yeah, no, I, to be honest, I had no idea. No idea. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I just did that. That's a special song, you know? 3 (15m 24s): Yeah. No, for sure. It's a great song. And like just looking at the songs and artists that you've worked with, like it's so impressive. I've, I've interviewed a handful of the people that you've worked with and like seeing names like when's on kind of like when you first started out, like she's such a great singer in like kind of finding these people and working with some of these artists early on, was that kind of a cool experience? It just kind of grab whoever was like, how did you meet some certain people early, early on in your career? Was it just people asking like, Hey, do you know anyone that could do this? And you're like, sure. I'll do it. Was it just like yes. To everything kind of deal? 5 (15m 58s): Exactly. Literally that's exactly what it was. I was, like I said, like a super hungry, super down to like just, I was happy to be in the room, 3 (16m 10s): Like 5 (16m 11s): So excited, you know? 3 (16m 14s): Yeah. And then it just kind of continued to build up. I bet, after that song though, with rise up that must've opened the doors quite quite a bit. 5 (16m 23s): You would think, I don't know if it did. I mean, like, I feel like, I don't know. I feel like music, it's like a forever journey. I think that song opens the doors for a specific kind of music, but that's very different than like stuff I've done with like Beth ditto or Anne Marie or flax here are bat throw ashes. They're all just like such different kinds of artists that it's particular to the genre. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe I just have that in my head, but that's what I think. 3 (16m 53s): Is it hard to kind of navigate like that? Like, I mean jump around in different genres like that? 5 (16m 58s): Well, no, I feel like if you walk in with an artist who has a strong sense of self or know what they want, it's you just have to, I think I consider myself to be an artist songwriter, which means I dive into their world and help them expand upon ideas that they want like very collaborative. And somebody said, once the artist is a star and where the sky, we are, the supporting people very important, but not necessarily a thing everyone looks at. And that's totally the case. You're just there to support definitely integral. 3 (17m 34s): Right, right, right. And so you show up to a session first for somebody that was trying to get into this or like, they think they're a great songwriter or they are, maybe are a great songwriter. Like what would you like? Was it hard to kind of like, you know, you get thrown into these situations where it's like, okay, you'd never been in a writing session. Like now you're kind of picking up how, what w you know, working with certain artists is, does it just kind of build off of that? Do you get, like, do you become more confident in obviously in what you're doing and who you're working with? 5 (18m 5s): What's the question exactly. 3 (18m 7s): Sorry. How are you able to kind of like, if some, were you able to, how were you able to kind of build your confidence when it came to being in the rooms early on to now, you know, you've worked with so many people that is probably more obviously a natural, but like, was it hard to gain confidence early on writing? 5 (18m 26s): Yeah. Great question. Yeah. I mean, definitely. I mean, for sure that's, the answer is like, we're all, we all have insecurity as I think, regardless of like our industry. And I think, I think with music and, and writing, you know, there are days when, like yesterday there was a day I had a session and it just, I arrived at three and I left at four 15 3 (18m 54s): Was done. 5 (18m 55s): And my, I, I dropped our puppy off at my sister's house and she has a normal job and she was working since 9:00 AM. And I, you know, she saw me work for an hour and she was like, seriously, like, seriously, that's what you did today. And I said, well, yeah. And you know, then, then there are days, like the day before I was in a session from literally noon to midnight. So it just like depends every, every day is different. It depends on who you're working with. Sometimes you catch it. Sometimes you literally don't sometimes you're wondering why you're in the room sometimes. You're you can't believe how easy. 5 (19m 35s): I mean, like, it's the literally, I mean, it's, it's kind of like, I guess, I mean, I have never really been one for dating, but I guess back in the day, cause it's like a date sometimes you're like, this is awesome. And the other time you're like, how the hell do I get out of here? You know? Right. 3 (19m 53s): Yeah. When you said you were only there for an hour and a half, I was wondering if it was going to go the other way of really like, yeah, I walked in and this person was just, you know, didn't have a clue what they were doing and I just had to get the hell out of there, but it sounds like you went in and it was, you know, jelled perfectly. You were able to get what needed to be done and then you're out. 5 (20m 9s): Yeah. I don't know. They were open to receiving whatever the hell was coming out of my mouth. And in my brain, I had no idea where it came from. Literally couldn't have predicted it. I was like, well, this is happening. And they were like, yep. And then that was it. I mean, I'm like, I, it's very, very rare. And then, you know, like a couple, a couple of weeks ago, I wrote with my friend Fletcher and like, you know, we've been working, we've been working for a really long time and we wrote a song and it was so much fun and we had such a good time and we were like, how did this happen? Cause we feel like we didn't even work, you know, we're just hanging out and a song's dope. And that was definitely not an hour, but it was, it was, it was like, you know, hanging with your friends, making music. 5 (20m 57s): I don't know. It's cool. 3 (20m 59s): I mean, it's kind of, it kind of came into this. I mean, I'm sure it's still is like, I think what I think is interesting is like any guy that has a computer and like garage band can claim to be a producer, like, oh, I have garage band and I've made a beat on my computer. So I'm now a producer when I feel like women aren't respected in that sense. I think you have to prove quite a bit more. I would imagine you have a similar take when it comes to that. And like, was that a hard thing to do to cut through? Not only are you in this kind of, you know, man's world of that, was that a hard thing to prove yourself early on as well? 5 (21m 32s): Yeah, I think I definitely was. I definitely had a little bit of, I have to, am I good enough? Can I sit at the table, but now I, I feel bad for the guys who don't know what they're doing when they're working with me. It's just like, I don't like, you know, I don't, that's probably sounds very cocky. I just mean like I have, I have such a respect for people who really know their craft who really know, you know, sound design and, and how to make things sound good. But at the end of the day, like that's important, but you have to have a song and you have to be able to come up with sick production. 5 (22m 14s): And all of that is just creative. And I think for me, a lot of the, like the finishing aspect of a song, like I find the people who are capable of delivering like a final product that can stand the test of time. Like those are the, the, the folks that I like really respect because it's, it's that extra, like I think like 15%, 10% of making, making it sound epic. And then of course it's tastes. So what I might think is epic, you might literally shut off. So conoce, 3 (22m 53s): You've kind of taken on like more of a, like a mentoring role, right? I mean, you work with a bunch of nonprofits and especially that heavily influenced or promote women in, in this industry. Correct. Not really. 5 (23m 9s): And I definitely, well, I mean, I definitely promote, I definitely promote women. I think it's really important to, to mentor and also to be there for people who, you know, who need help and guidance and advice, and a pat on the back along the way. Cause sometimes it's just as simple as, like you said, like giving somebody the confidence to talk, to tell them their dope and they just gotta continue doing it. So yeah. I mean, that's definitely something that I really do care a lot about. I wish I wish like, I mean, I don't know. I guess like back in the day it would have been cool to have somebody to like ask questions to, without being afraid. 5 (23m 52s): But now I just ask questions even when I'm afraid. So I just need to get an answer. 3 (23m 57s): Yeah. Because once you're in those rooms, I mean, in this industry or in music or any art industries is kind of, I mean, it's hard to cut into and then it's cutthroat when you're there. It's like, if you ask the wrong question, are you going to be, look, you know, oh, she doesn't know what she's talking about. Like, and then are you thinking, oh man, I'm ever going to get another job again? It's you kind of have to, I don't know. I feel like it would be very hard to be vulnerable, especially early on. 5 (24m 26s): Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. But you just gotta like, keep your head down and be positive and surround yourself with good people and talented people and kind people and you get shit. 3 (24m 39s): Sure. Do you, do you typically have, like when you go into a writing session, do you have a bunch of stuff like ready, prepared, like, okay. I know like what, what does a typical writing session look like? Is it like you already have something in mind that you're going to go present to this person or you just show up and they going to present to you and you can kind of just build off of what they, what the idea that they have is 5 (25m 1s): Personally it's literally whatever happens in the day. I never think about it. I know that sounds ridiculous. I mean, I'll make tracks, sometimes I'll show somebody a track. A lot of the times though, I'm working with people who have an idea of what they want to say, or like, like working with somebody and being like, I'm missing this kind of vibe on the record. I'm like, okay, cool. Let's make this kind of song. Then if someone's like, I want something to sound like Neil Sedaka, I'll be like, okay, cool. Let's go down there. But a lot of the times it's a lot of talking and I'm like, who are you? What, what, what, what, what makes you tick? Like where are you in your life? 5 (25m 42s): I think those, I mean, I could be wrong. I mean, there are definitely, there are definitely pits that have come out that I've done where I would say we didn't really talk about what was going on in someone's head, but I'd say like, if I look back at, you know, the songs that I think have done well, they are they're, they're like real stories, like just like artistically done about breakups or a heartbreak or I don't know, like love, you know, I feel like it's all. So I don't know. 5 (26m 23s): I think it needs to be real for me. That's how it's worked. So I'm sticking with that. 3 (26m 28s): No, for sure. I think people can sniff it out of, it's not authentic. 2 (26m 31s): Bet. MGM is pitching baseball fans, a chance to swing for the fences register using code champion 200 and win $200 in free bets. When you place a $10 Moneyline wager on any major baseball game and either team hits a home run, regardless of your bets outcome, enjoy baseball like never before with bed MGMs daily promotions at your fingertips all season long, download the app or go to bed. mgm.com and use code champion 200 to win $200. When you bet 10 bucks on an MLB game, and either team hits a home run, sign up today and find out why nothing beats a win at the king of sports books, major league baseball, trademarks used with permission. Visit bed mgm.com for terms and conditions must be 21 years of age or older to wager Virginia only new customer offer. 2 (27m 17s): All promotions are subject to qualification and eligibility requirements rewards issued as non withdrawal, free bets or site credit free bets expire seven days from issuance, please gamble responsibly gambling problem. 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Keep going. 3 (28m 37s): I was going to ask you like, with, with COVID happening and you know, every thing you're doing must have been in person and then the music industry is kind of thrown upside down and you know, what's going on in the world. Not only that, but then as a songwriter or a producer, you're used to working with people in person. How, I mean, was that hard to adjust obviously on the, the zoom and or did you not mess with it too much on that side until it stuff opened up more? Like talk to me about that. 5 (29m 9s): I feel like zoom was totally fine for me. I know a lot of people had a hard time with it, but it was definitely not a mountain to climb. I felt pretty. It was, it was fine. I had a good time on it. I felt like it actually opened more opportunities to work with people in different time zones around the world. So 3 (29m 30s): Where you working with new people that you hadn't worked with prior to using zoom? 5 (29m 34s): Yes. Yes. I know. So some regular repeat offender, friends, definitely some new, I got a couple songs. One of them, I wrote a song over the pandemic called cry with cat and cow, Mel, these two girls from Australia that came out. And so this they're single it's, it's doing pretty well. And then that was totally written, produced over zoom. I wrote three songs on a Lucius album over zoom I did. And that came out. I did. What did they do? That was with Brandi Carlile and shell Sheryl Crow that they got on it. And then what was the other one? 5 (30m 14s): Oh, Anne Marie. And I wrote a song with, for Sam Fisher, the city remix. We did that. I don't know, like see like a lot of stuff. 3 (30m 24s): Yeah, no for sure. It sounds like you're constantly busy. Was it when 5 (30m 27s): It was two years inside? So that's like four things, but like, you know, I met people, I made made some connections with some cool folks I wouldn't have normally said hi to. So that was cool. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, the pandemic is, it's weird. It's hard. I still have friends were getting sick and it's, it's still really scary. So 3 (30m 47s): Obviously it hasn't gone away, right? No, 5 (30m 50s): Definitely not. 3 (30m 51s): When it came to those, those zoom sessions with somebody that you maybe hadn't worked with before, do you feel like, did you sh do you show up more and it's like, okay. It's business because now it's okay. We're in this room. We're in the zoom call or I would imagine if you're in person, maybe there's a little bit more like BSN before or after or during the session. Did you feel like it more like in a zoom call? It was like, okay, we got to like be more like into business right away or not at all. 5 (31m 22s): I think everybody is different, you know? Yeah. Every single one was different. Some, I think in the beginning of the pandemic, I think everyone was just happy to say hello, where are you? What are you doing? What did you do today? Oh yeah. How many glasses of wine or bottles did you guys like? You know, this is craziest time in history. This is crazy that this has happened and we're all still there. I mean, yeah. I don't, I don't really honestly like this. Yeah. I was about to go down a code COVID rabbit hole of thought and I totally just shut the door, but I, Yes, some, some zoom sessions where, you know, cool. 5 (32m 6s): And some, I can't, I mean, I'm not remembering the bad ones. That's kind of odd. I normally remember the bad, but I don't know. I'm, I'm happy with the stuff that happened over zoom and the relationships I met and the friendships I made. So, and it was like, I mean, honestly, it's kind of efficient. You don't leave your house, you do something for three hours and you feel productive. So it's good time. I don't know. Like it was hard then in 2020, like what the hell are we doing? Like, I don't know. I wrote a song in the day. It felt good. I would write a lot with my friend, Kaitlin, who I think she was, we actually wrote a song she's actually on my, on her way to my house right now. 5 (32m 51s): So we're doing some stuff today, just flew in from probably here. Actually they just endorse them any Apolis. But we wrote, we wrote a song right before the world shut down called high, that Miley ended up, ended up taking, making sick and all this stuff. And then Kayden ended up repurposing it and releasing it herself. So there's two, like the old days, two songs out at the same time called high, which were really cool, but 3 (33m 23s): Caitlin, 5 (33m 24s): Caitlin and I, I love writing with her. She's amazing. And I guess, like, she kind of saved me in the beginning of COVID. I just remember being like, there's sirens, there's protests. There are people dying. Like, why are we writing songs? What is the point of this? And she's like, I don't really know. I'm like, oh, she's like, but let's just do it. And then we'd do it and we'd feel a little bit better. And then we'd go back and cry and drink. And it's just what it was for like seven to eight months. So 3 (33m 57s): Yeah. I had a chance to interview her, like in the beginning, very beginning of COVID it was interesting how, you know, what has happened over the course of the couple of years. 5 (34m 9s): Yeah. Yeah. 3 (34m 11s): So, but that's cool that you're, you're continuing to write with her and that's how amazing is it to have a song be, you know, not only repurposed with somebody who's, you know, somebody like Miley Cyrus, but to have her be able to really sit as well. That's awesome. 5 (34m 25s): Amazing. It's amazing. And it's super cool and super grateful and pumped and happy. And I love that song. 3 (34m 32s): And you, and you recently, you have another single right now with Christina Perry as well, right? That she heard a single that just came out. 5 (34m 39s): Yeah, Christina, we did that album started took two and a half years to make cause of the cause of the pandemic. And we started it in 2019 and then she was like, come to my house in October of 2020, and I flew to Jersey and we started the, I guess, record then like really recording it and ever gone is the single that's out. Now it's top 50 on the AC charts, which is really great. And Christina's amazing. She's from New Jersey. So obviously we have a thing for Jersey people probably because that's where I'm from Philly, but she grew up at hurt. 5 (35m 21s): She and her husband have been in Jersey for awhile no longer, but they were there for, for a long time. 3 (35m 27s): Are you jumping back and forth between projects? Like when you work on something with her and I mean, you said you worked on that record and you were there, but where you must be like, is it hard to kind of jump between like mindsets or, or do you enjoy that? 5 (35m 41s): I think it depends on how much time I have, but like, definitely it's good to switch it up unless of course you're totally like locked in somewhere and doing something with someone for, for like weeks on end. But like with Christina, we would, we would do like, we would do like three weeks and then I'd work on it and then maybe I'd have a session or something and then I'd get back together with her. I don't know. You switch it up. You write with, you know, different people, I think keeps it interesting. 3 (36m 12s): I love it. And yeah. So you're and do you have anything else coming out in the near, near future that you're excited about 5 (36m 21s): Near, near future? 3 (36m 23s): Alright. In the near future, anything you can talk about that you're like, I'm so excited for this artist and song to come out. 5 (36m 30s): I'm really, I'm really excited about the Fletcher stuff. I think it's really, really dope. I love Caitlin just dropped a song called maybe in another life, which I really like. I think that it's really a beautiful song and I'm happy about that. I'm comforted at Miley released high on the live record. Christina's album is beautiful. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that's like, then there's like a couple other things that are like happening, but nothing confirmed. So I dunno, just doing the thing, chatting and get good shit out there. 3 (37m 9s): I love it. Very cool. Yeah. Cause when I talked to Caitlin or when I interviewed her, she had just put out or she was getting ready to put out supernova, I believe at the time. Or she had just, maybe we should just put it out. Yeah. It was like in the beginning of 2020, like it was like right. Or when COVID had happened, I think it was one of the early, early on things that had gone on. It was crazy. 5 (37m 31s): Yeah. That, oh yeah. That's when it dropped. Yeah. Yep. I remember that. That's correct. She dropped a record and beginning the pandemic and then she dropped strapline. Yeah, you're correct. 3 (37m 40s): Yeah. It was crazy because I remember it like it when I talked to her, it was just like, whoa, like what is happening? It was kind of, everyone was like, yeah. So afraid, obviously men and confused and everything else, but that's awesome that she's been able to continue in that you write with her and she's got other stuff coming out and I love her as well. That's awesome. 5 (37m 60s): Cool. 3 (38m 1s): I have one more quick question for you again before I let you go. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists, 5 (38m 10s): Keep going. Don't don't quit find, find your thing and stick with it.