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July 8, 2022

Interview with Jenna Andrews

We had the pleasure of interviewing Jenna Andrews over Zoom video.

As a performer who was signed to a major label (Island Def Jam) and a music publisher (Sony/ATV) herself, Jenna Andrews is driven by an innate passion for music and a belief in its...

We had the pleasure of interviewing Jenna Andrews over Zoom video.

As a performer who was signed to a major label (Island Def Jam) and a music publisher (Sony/ATV) herself, Jenna Andrews is driven by an innate passion for music and a belief in its power to unite and inspire. The Calgary native has worn many hats in the music industry, from vocal producer to A&R/creative consultant, from songwriter and arranger to executive producer, taking both young and seasoned performers under her wing as friend, confidant, advisor and often even therapist. Jenna is familiar with the trials and tribulations faced by recording artists in achieving their vision.

A true triple-threat, Andrews offers the collaborative skills of a songwriting mentor/partner and the acumen of an A&R/artist development executive. As a consultant for Sony Music’s RECORDS label (where she is currently working with Swedish pop star Tove Styrke) and a partner in their joint venture publishing company TwentySeven Music at Sony/ATV, Jenna is in more demand than ever after serving as the vocal producer on BTS’ Grammy-nominated global smash, “Dynamite,” and doing similar honors, along with co-writing, for the South Korean superstars’ current chart-topping smash “Butter” as well as collaborating with Ed Sheeran on writing their latest smash, “Permission to Dance.”

Among her impressive credits include collaborations with Drake, Jennifer Lopez, Tori Kelly, Jessie J, Noah Cyrus (“July”), Benee (the TikTok smash “supalonely,” being used in over 10 million user-created videos, and streaming over 500 million times to date) and Galantis, David Guetta & Little Mix (“Heartbreak Anthem”), as well as producers Noah “40” Shebib, Diplo, DJ Mustard, Max Martin, Illangelo and Stargate.

Jenna’s fingerprints are all over “Butter,” with a pair of her TwentySeven Music signings, songwriter/producer Rob Grimaldi and co-writer Alex Bilowitz, both contributing to the BTS song along with Stephen Kirk, all of whom receive writing credit on the song along with Columbia Records Chairman Ron Perry and BTS’ RM, who penned the closing rap.

The result was the band’s fourth chart-topping Billboard Hot 100 single, and a major achievement for Andrews and her team, one that has her looking to the future to make her mark in not just the music business, but other ancillary, related projects.

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Hello! It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Jenna Andrews over zoom video. Jenna was raised in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and she talks about how she got into music. She had a little keyboard, she got around five years old and taught herself how to play that and ended up taking vocal lessons and different music lessons throughout her childhood. We talked about how she went to school, went to college for a broadcast journalism degree, which I thought was really cool while she was there. A professor kind of co-sign and said, you know, I know music is the thing you're, you're passionate about. 3 (2m 9s): You should really pursue that. And we'll let you kind of do an online thing for the rest of your schooling. So she moved to Vancouver. She talked a lot about her artist project, putting out her first EAP, having one of her songs on Grey's anatomy. And we kind of talk about how that show is such a tastemaker for a lot of music and brought a lot of success to a lot of different artists. Jenna tells us about how she moved more into the songwriting producing role. We learned about her first cuts as a songwriter, writing butter for BTS vocal, producing dynamite for BTS and all about her latest project, which she's been working with Dixie Demilio on her full album. 3 (2m 50s): So we hear about that as well. You can watch our interview with Jenna on our Facebook page and YouTube channel app, bringing it backwards. It'd be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tech-Talk at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcasts, it would be awesome if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five star review, 4 (3m 15s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 3 (3m 21s): We're bringing it backwards with Jenna Andrews 5 (3m 24s): And how are you? 3 (3m 25s): I'm doing well. I appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much. 5 (3m 28s): Of course. I'm so sorry. This took so long to make happen. 3 (3m 31s): Oh no, no. Need to apologize. It's totally, totally fine. I appreciate you doing it. Yeah, yeah. So this is my name is Adam, by the way. And this podcast is about you and your journey in music. And I love what you're doing as far as the greenroom podcasts thing that you got going on as well. Are you still doing that? So 5 (3m 53s): It's, it's, you know, it's just something that's always been very important to me just because, you know, obviously like mental health is such a big aspect in, in so many people's lives, obviously, you know, going through a pandemic was something that really inspired me to start it. And I think that, you know, obviously it was a crazy time for everybody, but I think in general, I think as a creative person, you know, it's, it's, it can be heightened sometimes to deal with that type of thing. And I think to have, you know, I'm always of the mindset that if you have somebody that's a good role model too, and just, you know, people that are going through it every day that you know, their favorite artist or their favorite person that they look up to. 5 (4m 38s): And if they know they have a similar issue, it's it's, it may be easier for them to get through 3 (4m 44s): Completely. I totally agree with you. Sorry. Real quick. I don't want to interrupt you, but we use the videos that cool. 5 (4m 51s): Yeah, that's cool. I just wanted to make sure that I have the right. Do you mind? Okay. 3 (4m 55s): I just want to get you a little bit better lighting. 5 (4m 58s): Yeah. Hold on a second. Where, so how, how do yeah, how do you guys usually do the, where does this usually go live? 3 (5m 8s): I, we put it up on like, we use speaker to go to all the, you know, iHeart's that your, all that stuff, apple music, Google podcasts. And we put it up on Instagram, you to Facebook and all that as well. 5 (5m 26s): Let's see if this is better of, or no, 3 (5m 31s): It's still, you're still a bit dark, but now I can see you when you come closer. 5 (5m 38s): How's that? 3 (5m 39s): That's better. Yeah. Now I can see you. I just, you were kind of a silhouette. Cool. No, perfect. Awesome. 5 (5m 48s): Okay. 3 (5m 49s): Sweet. Yeah. And yeah, we use the video and usually we're doing them in person up until obviously the pandemic and it was and went this way. It works out too. Cause now you can access way more people. And we started doing them in person again recently, but we moved to Nashville. I used to be in San Diego. So it's a different, 5 (6m 9s): Yeah. So I mean, zoom is cool. Cause like you can obviously make shit happen again. Like you said, like kind of anywhere you want to, depending on, you know, obviously obviously the time zones, but it makes it a little easier. Cause like before the pandemic people would just have to wait to travel. Right. So that's an 3 (6m 27s): No for sure. And especially, I'm sure for you in songwriting and producing, like being able to connect with somebody across the world like this, instead of being like, okay, I'll be there in, you know, a week. Once I get on the plane and fly there and blow it. I'm sure it makes it so much easier to just hop on the computer. 5 (6m 42s): Exactly, exactly. 3 (6m 44s): That's so great. And it's, it's wild that something as tragic as the pandemic created such a different, you know, environment for people to, to be able to connect, 5 (6m 54s): I know it's so crazy, right. I mean, you have to look again, you have to look at the positive from it and that's sort of how I looked at again, like you said with it, the green room talks is that obviously it's such a terrible time and it's, you know, but I think you have to sort of, you know, take the, the light in it, out of the dark kind of thing. And I think that's what people really need right now is to feel, you know, and that's especially coming out of that phase. So I think just to like, you know, and that's, and that's what we're sort of here for, especially as again, creative people. 3 (7m 26s): Sure. Especially, I love that you have, you know, notable people on your show. It also, I mean, not that you aren't as well as like you talking personally about it and then talking to other people that are also, you know, famous about it. Like yeah, I was watching your one with like Jojo and, and Taylor Uppsala is a, is a friend of mine. So I saw she was on your podcast too. So I watched that one as well. I just think it's cool to, to hear perspectives in that, in that space from, you know, other people that, like you said earlier, a lot of people look up to, 5 (7m 55s): I know I love upsell by the way. She's amazing. 3 (7m 57s): She's so cool. I met her through this podcast actually, the first time she was opening up for a max frost or something on a tour, 5 (8m 6s): She, 3 (8m 7s): I don't even know if she had a record or anything. It was before she, she really, you know, took off to what she's doing now. And then the next time she came back through San Diego, she was headlining. And then, you know, now she's, she's doing so well, but she's such a great person. 5 (8m 20s): Oh, she's the best I love her. 3 (8m 22s): Yeah. She's incredible. So that's so cool. Yeah. So I saw that you had her on, and then, like I said, I watched the Jojo one and a few others, so I love what you're doing. And then that studio that you guys have is so cool. You say you're like on Hollywood or sunset or something, 5 (8m 35s): Which studio 3 (8m 36s): Or the one I think it was, it's like green behind you. And you were like at a table, you had Jojo there. 5 (8m 42s): Oh yeah. Yes. So that's the dash studio radio dash studio. It's sort of like TRL. It's really cool. It's like outside sort of has the window that sort of is sits on the sidewalk and people can just walk by and watched. And so the guy, his name is my wand. That is, is one of the, I mean, he's one of the, I guess DJs or I don't know exactly what his title is there, but he really gravitated. He interviewed me early on in COVID and gravitated to the podcast. So he wanted to be a part of it. And I just loved that idea. So he's been a part of it. So the, probably the past year, 3 (9m 18s): That's cool. That's really cool. A friend of mine, I come from radio and I love that. I saw that you like, we'll talk about it if you don't mind, but like you had like an internship or something in high school, you were at a radio station or is that what I read? 5 (9m 33s): Yeah. Yeah. That's oh, I'm obviously, oh, I mean, I don't know if you know what I'm from Calgary and 3 (9m 38s): Calgary, right. From what I read, but that's always burned me in the past. I, I, it said the Eric Wilson from sublime was from Alaska. And I asked him about that. He's like, what the hell you talking about? I'm like, you might want to get your Wikipedia page fixed, bro. 5 (9m 54s): You know, what's funny is sometimes people, clown, you obviously I'll look at PDF and put where you're at like weird places that you're from, which is console. But, but yeah, so I mean, but what was I going to say? So yeah. Being from Calgary there, you know, there wasn't as many places that, you know, could help you get on or do things that, you know, obviously it would help propel your career. And for me at the time it was like, you know, it was trying to like open up for people or just that musicians that would come to town or whatever. And so like being, when I, when I graduated high school, the first thing I thought was like, oh, okay, well, the next best thing is to like, be in like broadcast journalism broadcast. 5 (10m 37s): And so I went to school for six months for that. And at the, in that time, I just was like working at radio stations and sort of doing an overnight shift. And like, and then I decided six months in, like, my professor was like, oh, this is not, you need to be doing music. Like we totally support that. You should just go pursue it. So I moved to Vancouver and they let me do two years. I didn't ever finish it, but two more years online for journalism, the same time when I moved to Vancouver and started, you know, you know, just recording and stuff like that. I, at the same time I was interning at global. 3 (11m 16s): Oh really? Okay. That's cool. That's so cool. Yeah. I did re I've come from radio. I did that for like 17 years and a guy I used to work with. Cause dashes, sorry. It was started by Snoop. Wasn't it? 5 (11m 30s): I don't know. But 3 (11m 31s): Yeah, he has like a part in it and a guy that I know and used to work with his name is Kevin James. He has a show on dash or did have a shine. I don't know if he still does, but he, he has got the really low voice and he plays it like a bunch of slow jam R and B songs. He's yeah, his name's Kevin slow jam and James he's. He was like on the early Snoop Dogg records and stuff, but I used to work with him and he, he had a show on dash that's the only reason I that's how I heard of it. And then I saw that your show is on there too through, but I didn't realize that they had that cool studio and everything. That's awesome. 5 (12m 1s): Yeah. No, they definitely do. It's like, and they have a bunch of stuff that's really cool inside. They have like, I don't even know how to explain it, but there's this room that just like completely like interactive and it's like, amazing. I love it. So you, I mean, where are you based? You said you're in, 3 (12m 15s): I'm in Nashville now, but I was in San Diego. I grew up in San Diego. 5 (12m 20s): Oh, well, amazing. Well, next time you're you're here. I mean, we should try to do some sort of collaborative thing between maybe the group bring it back or whatever. 3 (12m 30s): Yeah, no, that would be so much fun. I would love to do that. That would be great. I love it. Very cool. Awesome. Awesome. Well, let's talk about you. So you're born in, you said in Calgary? 5 (12m 41s): Yeah. Well, no, I was born, I was born in Edmonton, but then I moved to five. 3 (12m 47s): Okay. So tell me about girl. So you mainly grew up in Calgary, then you moved there on your five, five. Is that what you said? Sorry. It cut out for a second. 5 (12m 55s): I moved here when I was five. 3 (12m 57s): Okay. Five. And we, you, when did you get into music? Were you playing an instrument at five or, or later? 5 (13m 3s): So my parents got me like a little piano, a little keyboard when I was about five, probably four or five and for Christmas one year and I had just started teaching myself, teaching myself a bunch of songs and they were just like, oh my God, like our kid is kind of talented. I don't know. It was one 3 (13m 21s): Of those things. 5 (13m 22s): And then they, but they never really wanted to push me. They kind of just followed what I wanted to do and, but I wanted to do it all. And to me it was always something that took over my life. I had way more interested in doing music than I did playing with friends and stuff. So, so yeah, I just sort of like went into like, you know, whether it be vocal or piano or any kind of lesson that I could in Calgary. I did, I was part of a performance group called youth, the youth singers of Calgary. And then, you know, I did like, you know, kind of random things here and there like performance stage show with like one of the, one of the, what is it called? Human characters, assessment street, this guy named Bob McGrath. 5 (14m 4s): Yeah. And, and, and so I did things like that sort of just as I was growing up, just to sort of be as much immersed in scene as I could. And then obviously, like I had mentioned, like later I did the radio stuff and sort of did some TV stuff, like funny enough, it was like sports broadcasting. So it was, it was so it would've had to do 3 (14m 25s): Right. Yeah. Anyway in right. I mean it's okay. Sure. Like I was doing news, I wasn't on the air, but like the gig I could get into the door was like an assistant producer for like a, like a new station, like a radio station that was all news base. And I was like, I have no interest in this, but Hey, it's a, it's a way in the door. Let's do it. 5 (14m 49s): Exactly, exactly thing. And then 10. And when I, when I, when I moved to Vancouver, it was sort of like, that was sort of the kickstart of the being, I guess, in the real business, you know what I'm saying? Because I've been doing it, but in terms of like, I think I had signed my first production deal when I was probably when I was 19, I would think. Yeah. 3 (15m 12s): Wow. So, well, prior to that, prior to moving where you, you obviously were writing songs and performing and performing your own songs, like, was there a validating moment before you moved or it sounded like you said your professor was like, you know, you're, you need to be doing the songwriting thing. You should, you should move in and pursue that. 5 (15m 31s): Yeah. I mean, he, he, one more so like the, at the time I was really focusing more on my artist stuff, but he like noticed, I mean, like, you know, obviously the rest of my life, like I said, I mean, I had been doing like musical feet or anything to do with like in Calgary. People knew that I did music. It wasn't like, you know, Calgary is a big city, but it's also kind of small. So a lot of people know each other and, and whatnot. So I think that for him, he was like, I really think that this is not where your heart is. I think you'd need to go pursue music. But at the same time, you recognize that you want to get this degree. And at the time it was kind of like, we want it. They were just the most supportive they could be. 5 (16m 12s): Right. How about you go, if you want to go and do this, we let you do whatever you need. That was, that was basically how it went down. 3 (16m 21s): So when you move, when you move to Vancouver, where you like playing out, like how to, what was the first move that you made when you got there? It was like, okay, now I'm in a different space. Like it was the music scene just a bit better. Like, what was the benefit of going there? I I'm just don't know much about it. 5 (16m 37s): Well, at the time I'm actually a concert promoter. I had met through opening for this artist, Sean Desmon, eh, I had met him and then he introduced me to some producers in Vancouver and that's basically why I chose. And Vancouver just seemed like it made the most sense at the time too, just because it was closer than Toronto. And then, so I went and I just kind of made relationships with these initial producers and then sort of just kind of went from there and I developed my own open mic and it was kind of funny because I did it at a restaurant called Earl's. I don't know if you're familiar, but it's a pretty big chain in Canada. And, and so it became sort of like a pretty popular open mic. And so that was really cool too. 5 (17m 19s): And I met a lot of people in that Vancouver music scene that obviously not obviously, but that went on to have, you know, some cool success too. So it's cool. Like Canada's, you know, I mean, like it's so big, but it's also small, you know, like a lot of people sort of like clean to each other and sort of, I feel like there's a very family oriented thing in the Canadian music scene, which I love. 3 (17m 42s): Yeah. That's incredible. And with w were you, did you get discovered, like, was it the deal out of something that happened at the, at Earl's at this of Mike Nye? Like, how did you, you said you had 19, you're able to sign a publishing deal? 5 (17m 54s): No, no, no. I signed a production deal. 3 (17m 56s): Oh, production deal. Sorry. Okay. 5 (17m 59s): So the production deal happened just by sort of, you know, basically had, had been recording a bunch of stuff. And one of the producers that I was working with just loved it and was like, can I would love to just do an EAP with you? So we did, we did actually like a, more of like a Chaz DP was crazy. It was like, it was just so I don't even know how to describe it. It was kind of, I mean, I grew up listening to Billie holiday. She's one of my favorite artists, but it's more reminisce, like reminiscent of that sort of era. And anyway, so there was a song that sort of crossed like both singer songwriter and Billy holiday, one song with guitar on, on the EAP that I ended up writing in my car because I, you know, at the time I've told this story a bunch, but basically I just, I had no money and I didn't really want to tell my parents, so they would tell me to come back home. 5 (18m 52s): So a lot of times I would just sleep in my car by the water because I was like, okay, I don't want to drive. I said, well, I was living kind of far away to afford living there in Vancouver. So I was living like outside of Vancouver. Sometimes I would just sleep in my car and one year close to Christmas, I was writing a song, one to go on the EAP, but also for my parents for Christmas. Cause I couldn't like afford a gift and, and I ended up putting it on my space, funny enough. And that's how I got really discovered. And that's sort of how everything really happened. The manager, my, my former manager, Chris Smith from Toronto had family on my space and he reached out. So I ended up flying to Toronto and showcasing for him and then ended up signing to him. 5 (19m 35s): And then he sent my stuff that same song to LA Reed who ended up signing me to Def jam. So that's, and then I ended up moving to Toronto and then like three years later to New York. 3 (19m 45s): Wow. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. That's amazing. And that's, after you had signed the deal, that's when you had the song, I saw that you had the, you got a song on Grey's anatomy, which I thought was cool because that, that television show is whoever the music director is there, like knows how to pick like hits. It's so interesting. Like the talent that will you'll hear that comes like at a Grey's anatomy. I don't know if you've heard that before. 5 (20m 8s): Oh no. A hundred percent mean Grey's anatomy. Who's totally known for breaking artists back in the day. I mean, 3 (20m 12s): I know isn't that crazy. 5 (20m 14s): So crazy. And like, so I thought that was a really cool moment. Yes. That was definitely my aunt, like when I was sending Def jam. That happens. So that was cool. 3 (20m 21s): Yeah. I mean, it's, it's such a bizarre show to be breaking artists, but it's been like notable for that. It's it's to me, it's just so cool. 5 (20m 31s): No, I know. It's amazing. It's so cool. I mean, that was definitely, I mean, it's, I'm trying to think of shows like that now that have that same sort of like euphoria, it was kind of a similar, 3 (20m 42s): Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just so cool. And especially like a show like Grey's anatomy, which is, you know, a medical show that has really nothing to do at all in music, and then it's pulling these artists out of it. That's just so cool. But so you, you had your artist project for a while and then you ended up kind of transitioning into more of a songwriter, correct? 5 (21m 4s): Yeah. So basically I, you know, it was weird because when I was signed, I was signed for like seven years and six and a half, something like that. And it was sort of the transitional stage of like, when it was really going to like the heavy industry mirror, obviously it was so like the streaming era, but it wasn't like how it is now where it's like, you know, you just have to be constantly feeding your audience, especially with like talk era, you know what I mean? So like that's, it's, it's just, it was weird. Like almost when I was sad, it was like in that like sort of gray middle zone where it was kind of switching from time to time because like radio at the time was still, I mean, radio is still obviously, you know, important to an artist's career, but it's definitely not what it was. 5 (21m 48s): You know what I'm saying? The sense that it's not how it's not how artists are breaking now. I mean, the song breaks on Tik TOK and before, and by the time it gets to radio today, the songs not like necessarily like a cultural, it doesn't have as much cultural 3 (22m 3s): It's dead. Yeah. I know for sure. And I was seeing that even when I was in radio towards the end, I'm like, oh, that only took, you know, eight months before it hit top 40 before it became like a quote-unquote hit, you know, it's like 5 (22m 15s): Radio is almost like, it's, it's funny. I mean, especially for a songwriter, it's like, it's so important for songwriters, so right. I mean, that's how they make songwriters. Right. But at the same time, it's like, eh, like I think that it's like, you know, it, it has a different type of reach, but it's just not, it's not like when the song is really bubbling, you know what I'm saying? 3 (22m 36s): No, I know it's yeah. Cause I was on alternative radio and our demographic was 18 to 34 year olds. And I'm like, if you quizzed anyone pretty much up to 30, they have no clue what the hell you're talking about. If you're talking about the radio, they're like, what, you know, what are you w who's listening to that 5 (22m 52s): A hundred percent. That's what I'm saying. 3 (22m 54s): It's insane. 5 (22m 56s): And so that's why, like, for me, like when I, I only put out like one single and one EAP, like the whole time I was signing, she's crazy. It's unheard of now. Like that would not happen. Right. So when I left, it was sort of the idea that I just wanted to be creative and have the stuff that I was making come out in the world. So it was, you know, being that I'm from Kenya or from Canadia, I can't even say from Canada and I, you know, was living in Toronto. I, you know, the, some of the people that I knew, like, you know, just in the Toronto scene, like the, even though the OVO circle kind of thing, they reached out like Noah 40, he reached out and asked if I wanted to help Cody P the magic Jordan EAP. 5 (23m 42s): And that was basically the first sort of songwriting, vocal production, executive experience that I've had outside of being an artist, how it kind of all started really. 3 (23m 54s): And from there, you were just working with different artists and, and helping them kind of write or writing or writing songs with people or for people. 5 (24m 2s): Yeah. The guy really enjoyed that process. So I feel like from there, you know, I really, I tried to get a publishing deal and I was like, I really love this process. I love writing for other artists. I feel like, you know, I can still be creative. It's weird. It's like, you can take your, all the things that make you great. And all the things they make that make them great and sort of make a baby with it. And I love, I love that process. And to me, I was like, okay, this is cool. I want to do this. So yeah. I just started writing with a bunch of people and I sort of just catapulted from there. 3 (24m 35s): That's so cool. I'm curious. Just cause I'm, I'm, I'm not a songwriter. I love music. I tried to play, I can poorly play guitar and stuff, but I love it so much that I wanted to surround myself in my way in, was through the radio. I'm like, oh, I can talk about it. I can soak it up and talk about it. But like for somebody that's a songwriter, maybe they don't want to be in an art or an artist, or they don't have that. They just like the song writing thing is more like what you were saying. Like, you love doing that. Like, how would you even like for a publishing deal, I'm just curious for people listening would be like, do you write like an EAP? Or would you write like a bunch of demos and you'd sing them yourself and then submit them to like a Warner chapel or somebody like that. Is that kinda how it works? 5 (25m 14s): Not really. Like, I mean, yes. Like it used to work like that back to David does really work like that now at all. But success doing that, like for me, like in the beginning, I think that if you're in super development phases, then I think there's so many ways to do it. I think now as a young writer to be able to laugh, like I have my own publishing pincher, for example. Right. So it's like, I have a sense for a young writer, in my opinion, because you attach yourself to another songwriter that has experienced with relationships, you could be submitting songs to them and they can help you sort of, you know, pull apart your songs, help you like craft a song to be able to know what songs going to work for a specific artist. 5 (25m 57s): You know what I'm saying? So, So, so for me that makes a lot of sense for young writer, producers coming up to have the influence under like more experienced songwriter producers. And then you're still under the umbrella of like a major publisher that can help, you know, place the songs in, in, in, you know, if it's like a sync world or if it's in, on certain artists. But for the most part, like for me exempt, for example, I'm always sort of working with a handful of artists at one time. And so for me, I can help shop the songs myself, you know what I mean? 3 (26m 30s): Right, right. So somebody would want to find like a mentor, like you, like it say, you, you I've met you. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I love you. And I have these songs, like, do you mind checking them out? And if you listen to them, you're like, oh yeah, this is actually, this is really cool. We could, we could work together. And then you, you have the, you have the network to be like, okay. Yeah. Like, oh, this would be great for so-and-so and then you could reach out under that person. So to speak 5 (26m 53s): Exactly exact 3 (26m 55s): You, 5 (26m 56s): That's it. The thing that I was saying that I feel like, you know, and again, it's not, there's not just one way, but I think to be able to have, you know, some sort of mentor is definitely a way to go today because I think again, it's so relationship-based, and it's, so it's not just about the song now. It's like, obviously you can write a hit song, but you have to be able to know like there, you know, you have to attach it to an artist that has the right platform. That's the right, you know, feeling for it like that. They can sell it the right way. Like there's so many aspects that isn't just like, Hey Warner or Hey, Sony, Hey, because it gets lost in the, in the, you know, pile of a million songs and 3 (27m 36s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you just send a blind email, like the chances of someone to ever stumbling upon it are probably slim to none. 5 (27m 43s): Well, no, but I'm saying if you signed a publishing deal, Let's say you signed a publishing deal now and you, and you like, you're just a beginning songwriter and you have no zero cuts and you have your publisher that you send songs to. That's fine. And they can send songs to artists, but what's most effective in my opinion, is to have another creative person that you sort of work with a lot and trust and under. And so they cue, you can sort of form that team yourself and understand who the best people are to get these songs too, because sometimes even if your publisher is amazing and they're sending it to certain artists, like it's not the same, like connection to the song like that, it would be as if it was just coming from like the creative circle. 3 (28m 26s): Right. No, no, no, no. That totally makes a lot. That makes a lot of sense. And that you said you have a joint, cause you do have a joint venture, right. As far as like a publishing company, you help publish you, you help people that are songwriters. 5 (28m 36s): Yes I do. Yeah. Yeah. That's called 27 music. And I have, you know, like people like Jimmy Allen and, and little mix signed to, I'm trying to think like about like a bunch of people actually like a couple of the writers from all the Alex fluids that were also co-writers on butter for BCS, but yeah, I I've had this company for like probably around four years now. 3 (29m 2s): Yeah. That's so cool. And it sounds like even going back to the, the Earl, you know, open mic nights, you had, you, you found an, a knack for like grabbing young talent and having them sing at the open mic night. Now you're kind of finding talent that can help publish, you know, hit songs. 5 (29m 20s): Exactly. 3 (29m 22s): That's such a cool, that's so cool. Like with that, do you, do you find yourself like going out and discovering talent? Like how, how are you finding new artists and cool new people? 5 (29m 34s): I mean, really it's just about being in the scene and sort of just like being able to, like, I'm riding a lot with people and just sort of in studios, just meeting people and being like, oh my God, I love you. Or you're amazing. Like really? It's just that it's like very organic and natural. 3 (29m 48s): That's so cool. Well, just to comment on, I mean, obviously you have a huge, huge success in with, with butter is a massive song and then you even did dynamite. Right. You vocal, vocal, produced dynamite for BTS. Yeah. And were those things that just kind of like, how, how does it eventually get to a point where you, like, what was the first like big cut, would you say that kind of opened the door to these other, other artists and other bigger opportunities? 5 (30m 14s): I mean, you know, it's interesting because I feel like there's been a lot of things like that along the way. Like I think Jesse J was one that really helped me get to a certain places at the time. And then there was like, you know, just trying to think, like there's like a Drake song that I was part of that really helps sort of open doors to certain artists. And then, and then like over the pandemic super lonely happened that I wrote or spending that really just sort of that's that really helped open the door actually to, even to BTS that's when they first reached out about me working with another band of there's TXT and that sort of led me also to vocal producing dynamite. So, you know, every sort of like every little piece counts, you know? 3 (30m 57s): Sure, sure. That's yeah. That's so amazing. Like to, to, to see that, that like, that must've been well, obviously validating in the sense, like what was like, like even before that you must add like a validating moment or a moment when, like, after you had left the, the artist project in the sense and started writing songs, like, was there like a first one that you were like, okay. Or was there a point where you're like, I dunno if this is going to work out and then you, you got like something landed and you're like, oh, awesome. Like, that'll keep me moving forward. 5 (31m 27s): I think really that, yeah, like this Jessie J song called personal those songs. I feel like I was one of, one of those, like I'd had songs come out again before, but there been a couple, probably like a year. I don't even remember how long that, that nothing was coming out. I was like more so like, even in the pop space, you know what I mean? That I wanted not like as much in like the R and B alternative space, but like I wanted to have like real pop song. And I feel like when that happened, that really like changed a lot. And it was like the time it was like, it was like a really big deal to get into other rooms. 3 (31m 59s): Yeah. With that. Like, are you still working with, I mean, aside from the artists that you work with directly under your publishing company, are you working with, with other artists, like constantly, like what, like a daily schedule, are you mainly working with other songwriters within your, your publishing company or other artists, bigger artists or other people reaching out to you? 5 (32m 22s): Yeah. Just like sort of all of it, you know? I mean, I just, it, I'm working a lot with this artist named Jessie Murph and she's amazing. We just had a song actually go gold called always been you. She's a brand new artist. She's a, she, you should check her out if you don't know her already. She's amazing voice just finished. 3 (32m 40s): Sorry. I'm going to type it in real quick. 5 (32m 42s): Jesse Murph. 3 (32m 44s): Oh, I know the name sounds familiar. Okay. 5 (32m 47s): And then did the Dixie Demilio record that just came out and know 3 (32m 53s): Yeah, you did. Yeah. I forgot that. I did read that you did the Dixie to Amelia record. That's. That's awesome. 5 (32m 57s): And that was really interesting because, you know, I think she really wanted to come into a phase in her life where she really wanted to make music that said something and really express how she felt. So that was a really interesting experience to have. And I just loved, you know, getting close to her and it's always amazing to, you know, this is the first actual album I've been a part of. And I think to have that experience to spend every day with somebody and really understand their life story is just such a cool experience. 3 (33m 23s): So did you, did you work with her in the past or was this the first time you had worked with her? 5 (33m 27s): Well, I met her in like November, so we've been sort of working on it, you know, off and on since then, but it really sort of pressed the green light in February. So we had like really months to really finish it, finish it, which is crazy. It's like not typical that you do a whole album in three months. 3 (33m 43s): Yeah. And in those situations, do you mean you, you must have to like spend a bunch of time with them and really get to understand them and their personality and their life before you can even start writing or does she have an idea and then you just vibe from there or like, like something like that. W how would you even approach that? 5 (34m 2s): Yeah, I mean, it's like just all of the above, really. It's just finding the right, you know, just like being able to find the every day is a different story in a different thing that she wanted to bring in and talk about. And it was really that, and just learning her voice and understanding what she, like, kind of like what temple of song she wanted to do, what kind of feeling of songs, like all that kind of stuff. 3 (34m 24s): That's amazing. And you're still just to kind of wrap up with you. I appreciate your time. And now are you, you're still doing the greenroom pretty frequently. Is that like a 5 (34m 33s): Hi, I'm trying to do it like once a month now. Just cause I feel like after, you know, after COVID and stuff, like it's an in person stuff, it's been a little bit like with the Tash dash studios and things. It's just the organizing who feels comfortable with going to the studio or who wants to do it on zoom. But like, for the most part, we've been still keeping up, like to once a month, but it's been really cool. 3 (34m 53s): That's awesome. I mean, you have so many things going on. I'm surprised. Like it's so cool to hear that you can continue doing that besides like writing a record for somebody running a publishing company and then doing, you know, doing the podcast and all that. It's I love what you're doing. Thank you so much for doing this. 5 (35m 8s): Thank you. 3 (35m 9s): Yeah. Last question for you. I want to know if you have any advice, you kind of already answered this, but I wonder if you have any advice for aspiring artists. 5 (35m 18s): I, you know, my best advice is to just hustle, you know, and I feel like not, not ever really give up. I mean, it sounds kind of cliche to say, but I think for me, I think, especially in today's world, like you can just constantly be, be, be like active on social media, hitting people up for like, you know, again, cliche to say, but for like 99 people that don't answer one person will, you know, and for that one person, you might meet the next person. And I find that it's like that osmosis effect where it's just like, you keep it's going to grow. You just have to let it kind of get there. You know, you can't. And I think from my experience, at least it's like, you never know that one key person that's going to lead you to a place that will change your life.