BiB: Joshua Aubrey Jackson (Make Sure) – From Bedroom Recordings to a Tooth & Nail Record Deal: His Unfiltered Journey

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Bring it backwards.

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Bring it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Why,

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hello, it is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast where both

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legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they

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achieve stardom. On this episode, we hung out with Josh

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of the project make sure over

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Zoom Video. Josh was born and raised in Alabama and talks about

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how he got into music. He told us about some of the earlier projects he

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was in and then eventually starting his own solo project,

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which was called Something before he changed

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it into make sure. And he talks about that process and why it changed the

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name. We hear about the prior releases to this new album,

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how he was signed to Tooth and Nail Records and again, all about this

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new album which is called June, and how it was the first time he

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worked kind of directly with Tooth and Nail. The album prior

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was complete and he signed with Tooth and Nail, so

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this time he already had the label. And he talks about

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putting this new album together. So check that out. It's called June and you

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could check out the video version of the interview with Josh on our

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Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It would

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be awesome if you subscribe to our channel on

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YouTube, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok

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Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It Backwards with

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Make sure. Hey, how's it going, Josh? Hey, how

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are you? I'm doing well. My name is Adam. It's nice to.

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To meet you. Thanks for doing this. Nice to meet you, Adam.

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Sweet. So this is a podcast about you and

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your journey in music. We'll talk about the album you have coming out next.

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Next week, I believe, right? Yes, on the 12th. Very

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exciting, man. Sweet. So

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you're originally from Alabama, Is that what I saw? Yeah, and I'm still here.

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Opelika, Alabama, which is becoming more and more

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popular. I think Waxahachie just had a song come out and she referenced it.

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So. Okay. We're in Boston, Alabama. I'm. I just moved

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to Nashville like three. Oh no way and a half years ago. So

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yeah, all the way down to like Orange beach or whatever. But

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I don't sweet area as much. Yeah. Yeah.

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So Opelika is. Most people

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would associate it with

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Auburn University, which is where I went to college, since on my

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alma mater, but because most people know about football,

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so. Right. I was gonna say big, big football school there. And we've,

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We've. We live and breathe and bleed football over here.

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So is it Tides. Is that

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somewhere else? Oh, Roll Tide is the. That's. That's the arch

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nemesis of Auburn University. That's. So that's Tuscaloosa, which would

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be the Alabama Crimson Tide. That's what I was thinking.

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Yeah. Over here is Auburn University.

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Oh, okay. So I'm totally messed that up. I'm sorry. No, it's.

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You're. You're fine. I just knew Alabama and football.

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That's most people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's amazing. So

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what about music as far as. Do you come from a musical household

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or. How did you get into. To music originally? Yeah, we.

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There really wasn't many instruments going on at my house.

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I think like, my sisters played in the marching band or something. But

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no one really. No one was really like a

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dedicated musician. But we always love to listen to records. And so

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I've like, music was

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something we all sort of shared an interest in, as in

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like my, you know, my older siblings. I was. I'm the youngest of four

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and so my older siblings would,

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you know, we would all burn each other's CDs and stuff and they would,

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you know, they would have stuff like the Cure or Oasis

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and Radiohead, whatever. And so I just had all

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these. My older siblings being like, this is the good stuff. You should listen

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to this. And it stuck. And so,

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man, once I got to be around like 12 or 13,

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I got a guitar and just started

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messing around with it and wanted to. It was more of a

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thing where it's like, I just want to know how to play songs. I want

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to know how to play the songs that I like to listen to. And so.

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And then eventually that, that this kind of became my own thing.

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So. Yeah, but nobody really had a. My parents weren't

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musical. My dad's side of the family. It's funny, it's like

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his. He has brothers and stuff that are like in bands and they

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teach music. They're super devoted to it, but it like skipped my dad for some

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reason, but then like made its way over to me. I don't know. But that's

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cool though. But yeah, at least your. Your older

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siblings like good bands, right? They could have been down trashed you.

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Yeah, but I mean, Oasis and Radiohead and Cure and

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they had good taste. They did. They sure Did.

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Yeah. So I'm thankful for that too. So. Yeah, that's

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cool. So you said 12, 13. You got a guitar and

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what was that for? Like a birthday present or like, how did you get the

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guitar? I. Well, I think so. I think my parents got. Got it for me

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when I was 11 and I still have it around here somewhere, I think.

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But it was like a. It was a Washburn lion,

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basically like a Target guitar. And then you buy it for 100. Bucks and

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strap bag all that together. Yeah, the pack. Right on.

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Yeah. And I. I remember

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I took guitar lessons and

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the guy I was taking it from was a guy from church. And

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I'm not knocking this, but just as an 11 year old, I didn't really care

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about playing, you know, the 90s worship

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hits. And that was pretty much all he was trying to teach me. So

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that, that's why I made a point to say later on when it was like,

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it was like my idea for being like, yeah, but I want to know how

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to play 1979 by the smashing Pumpkins. And so I'm gonna look it up

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on Ultimate Guitar and figure that out and. Okay.

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Yeah. Because usually with the teacher, they're either going to teach you what you want

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to learn or scales or. Yeah. You know, which is funny now because that's

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what I. That's what I do for a living now as I teach music. So

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I always like, I'm like with the kids or whatever, especially with guitar,

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I'm like, look, I don't want to. I don't want to like force you to

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learn this or that song. Like, you need to tell me what you want to

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learn so that you can have fun. And that way we actually both have fun.

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Because I'm watching their eyes light up because they figured out how to play their

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favorite song and stuff like that. So that's amazing. Yeah, that's the way to

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teach it. I was always thinking that, like with piano too, you hear about people

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going to piano lessons and it's just like such a drag like that, you know,

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sit up, then play the whatever. Yeah. Instead of like,

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I want to learn how to play whatever piano man like Billy

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Oller, you know, whatever it may be like, I want to learn something cool. I

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don't want to learn this song that I never heard or could

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care less about. All right. I figured like, that would be such a money maker

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to be like, all right, come in and I'll teach you any pop song or

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whatever you wanted to learn. So that's a cool way to do it. Yeah, it's

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a lot more fun that way. Yeah, I'm sure you get to learn some cool

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songs too that way that you. Maybe I do. It keeps me sharp. Keeps me

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sharp, man. There's especially the most fun is when you got these like metal

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head kids that will come in, they want to learn these insane like dream

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theater songs. And I'm just like, oh man, this is beyond

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what I'm really able to do. But I, I, I admire, you

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know, I admire that he's, that they're wanting to try that out. So yeah, I

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was gonna say if it's a new. A beginner and they hand you a dream

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theater like riff. You're just like, this might be

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two months of lessons just to get the beginning of this piece down. But

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yeah. Hey, shoot, shoot high. Shoot for the skies. Right on.

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So you started to do that. I mean eventually learning how to play other people's

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songs. And when do you start writing your own songs? That would have been,

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gosh, probably like 14 or 15.

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So I started out with a, with a friend of mine

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named Thomas. And we've. And most of the time we were hanging out in high

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school making just goofy YouTube videos and stuff. But he also had

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garage band on his computer. So we, I was like, well

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maybe we can try and make some like really epic

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like instrumental music. We were really into

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Godspeed you, Black Emperor. And so they're this like post

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rock band, just really epic songs and stuff and

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that are like 30 minutes each. And

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so we as you know, 15 year olds were like, we can do that. And

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so there, there are records out there that probably you can

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find them on band camp or something. But in there

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are sort of experiments when we were in high school trying to come up with

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these really epic

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ambient, an instrumental, whatever. But

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there was also like a bunch of weird stuff. Like we would. We sample. I

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remember we sampled like a five minute like speech by like Ron

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Paul or something like that and put it in a. And put a song. We're

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like, this is. We're saying something. I don't know what we're saying. We're saying something.

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And anyway I remember like we burned CDs we're like handing out to our friends

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and. But I.

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So then, but after like a year or two of doing the really weird stuff,

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I was like, which was fun and I'm glad that we did that.

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I remember thinking like, like I want to do, I want to do

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music that's not just soaked in reverb

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and a bunch of weird Effects and things I want to try and make like

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a folk record. And so I started a project

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named after an Andrew Bird song called Fiery

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Crash. And that was my project for a few years.

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And I think the best, honestly the best record I think that came out of

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that project was, is called Practice Shots. And I'm still, I'm maybe

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11 or 12 years removed from that one. And I'm still pretty proud of that

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project. There's some things I would change because I was like 17 when I made

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it, but. But I'm still pretty proud of that one

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and. But just you on those

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things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was kind of a solo thing. I just made

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it in my bedroom at my parents house and.

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And then eventually I, I

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kind of got tired of that name Fiery Crash because it was just.

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If you googled it, you would. You had to kind of dig to find my

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band camp and. Yeah, but before that, horrible news,

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horrible news. Articles about people dying and car crashes

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and stuff. So like page 5 of Google search like, yeah,

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oh, there he is. Yeah, so.

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And it just sucked telling like, like, you know, there'd be like

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older people at church or whatever. They'd be like, so I hear you make music.

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How do I find that? And I'd be like, well, just Google Fiery Crash.

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And, and it was just such an awkward conversation. So,

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and so eventually I was like, okay, let me think of something. So I

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eventually settled on this name called Make Sure.

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And that one just felt like it's kind of short, sweet, zippy.

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And it could be a lot of things, I think so,

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you know, and, and as with most band names, it's just like, why'd you pick

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it? Well, it wasn't taken, so I guess I just kind of go with that.

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But. Right. So there's not really like a deeper meaning behind it.

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Maybe, maybe someday they're all think of one. But just make

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sure you check us out. Yeah. Hey, there you go. Yeah, a lot of people

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mishear me. They'll go mixture. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Make, make sure.

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And. But so that's the name of Worth now.

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And that's the project that got signed with Tooth and Nail. So

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I always tell people that because I get the record deal. I said, well,

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it's just kind of like anything with,

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you know, or how'd you get the girlfriend? How'd you get the. Whatever, you know,

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I'm like, well, it's just like shooting free throws in basketball. You just, just keep

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going, man. But the, the point of

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that is that you just kept trying, you know. Right.

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So you miss 100, 100% of the shots you don't take. Was it like. That's

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correct. Yeah. Yeah.

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Fear of striking out keep you from playing the game. There you go. Yeah. I

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was going to ask you how you got the. The deal. So you started make

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sure. And was it similar to Fiery Crash or

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did you trying to change the sound up entirely? Yeah, yeah, I think make sure

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it's maybe a little more emo. Okay. Well.

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And as in like people would say was I like American Football

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or Death Cab for Cutie kind of that sort of stuff.

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I get that comparison the most People say I sound

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like Ben Gibbard, which I take it as a compliment because. That was

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a legend. Yeah, he's a legend. And with American Football

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that's a cool reference. Not that band doesn't get the respect they deserve,

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I don't think. Unless it's more in the indie scene. Dude, I've seen them live.

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We got to. We played audio feed last year and

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that's up in Urbana I think which is really

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close to champagne. So we, we made the. The pilgrimage to the American

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Football house. That's on the. The album, their first album cover.

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And no way. They were so cool. I mean it's just a. It's just a

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dumpy old house at this point. But it's. It's really cool because I mean it's

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just like a college. Just like you would find in any town is kind of

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a. Just an old college dorm looking house. But.

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But it's. You know, it was so cool though. And they have in the. In

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the window they have like a little flag that has the. The.

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The first album cover on it. Do they still to this day.

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Wow. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it

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was cool to see. And yeah, they put an album out a few years ago

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which was like pretty rad. I was like. I felt like I didn't you know,

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hear from them in a long time and I'm like, wait, what? American Football have

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a new album. They're still doing stuff. I. We could go on a tangent about

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that. I really like Owen, his Mike Cancella solo project

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and I think the reason that the. The so so

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called comeback records I guess of the American Football because they didn't,

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they didn't put out a record for long time and maybe.

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Yeah. And then they put that album out. Yeah. Not that long ago. To me

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it was just. It's still good because it was like

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Mike Kinsella was still doing music for for

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all those years, he didn't. I think with a lot of times those bands that

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will come back 20 years later and it's kind of like, what is this? It's

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not the same thing. But it was because he. He was consistent with his stuff.

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And then it was like, well, this is not a big deal for me to

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just make another American football record. So I think that they.

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The fact that he was still in the game, you know, all those years later

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really helped out. And I think they're. They're great records, so. And

248
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you said, aren't you playing this year's

249
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audio? Yeah, yeah, we'll be there. Awesome. Yep.

250
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Yeah, it was a lot of fun last year and I. I'm looking forward to

251
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doing it again. Nice. Well, so,

252
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,840
yeah. When do you decide to change the name to. To make sure. Was it

253
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a few years later? Were you in college at this point and did you go

254
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to college for music? I went to college for

255
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media studies, like communications and stuff, but neither here nor

256
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there. The. Yeah, it was in. It was in college, I think.

257
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So I. I had this vision to make a record called Walk Home

258
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instead. And that was the first. That's the first make sure album. And the.

259
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I spent four or five years like demoing and

260
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doing stuff for that and

261
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it. Yeah, but that, that was during

262
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college. I decided to go with the name and

263
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put out that first record. Well, we put out an EP

264
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and that's called Town Runner and that one has more of that, like I said,

265
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sort of the emo indie rock flavor. There's kind

266
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of some mathy stuff going on and

267
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I guess. Yeah, I mean you would hope this with every project, but I

268
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make sure to me is like the most finely tuned. Like

269
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I'm gonna be the most perfectionistic I can be. And it needs to sound

270
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as like high quality as it can. Whereas a lot of the other stuff I

271
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did was kind of home recorded. Not as.

272
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Not as sharp sounding, but so anyway.

273
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But yeah, I just wanted it to have the pretty. Pretty high quality stuff and.

274
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And that. That was. That's been the goal and still. Still is

275
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the goal with. With Make Sure. So was that first.

276
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Was that first CP recorded then.

277
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You. Did it like in a studio and everything wasn't like. Yeah, yeah.

278
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And the same guys I still work with today.

279
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Clubman Studios, it's in Blairsville,

280
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which is not. Not too far from Nashville, I guess, but a couple hours maybe,

281
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but up near where the Blue Ridge Mountains are.

282
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If you've ever been in that. That area, it's beautiful. Up there. And I have

283
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a buddy named Jimmy Smith. And it's

284
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half of this, it's half of his. His house, and the other half is the

285
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studio. And that's like one of my

286
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all time favorite places to go because you just. And the. In the. In

287
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these beautiful mountain ranges and you're making records

288
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and that's just. It's so much fun. I can get. I can get lost.

289
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Lost in the weeds there. For sure. That's awesome. For sure.

290
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So then you. Yeah, you did your. Was Walk Home instead. Your first, like, full

291
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album. As make sure. Yeah, yeah, as make sure.

292
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And then that one you put out what, on your own before you got signed

293
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to. To the now? Yeah, yeah, that was an independent release.

294
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And then the next one was called

295
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Ninjutsu. That's where you

296
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and that did. You did that whole process of getting signed to them

297
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and then working on that album, releasing it, because that came out in

298
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2021. Were you like, in the middle of the pandemic? Was that kind of an

299
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album that you've written during that time? And is that when you linked up with

300
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:54,470
Tooth and Nail? Yeah, so it was.

301
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I think. Well, pretty much the album was done.

302
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It was. We. I did it all through the pandemic. We were working

303
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remote, so I just had a whole bunch of time on my hands and

304
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yeah, just recorded it, finished it, got it

305
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mastered. And

306
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then I. The. The girl that sang a bunch of

307
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harmonies on that, her name's Marina. And she. By the time we

308
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finished it, she'd heard it. She's like, oh, you. Are you going to send

309
00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:33,410
this around? And I was like, well, I just figured I'd do what I usually

310
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do and just kind of throw it on the Internet. And there you go.

311
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She's like, oh, you're. I think she. I think she was like, you're stupid if

312
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you don't, like, send this around to somebody. She's like. And

313
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also kind of like, we put a lot of work into this. So, yeah, she's

314
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like, let's just not on Spotify or Fan Camp and

315
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call it a day. So. So then I. Yeah. And

316
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again with the free throw thing, I was like, okay, I'm just going to come

317
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up with like as many record labels as I can think of that

318
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might take this. And

319
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yeah, so anyway, and I just was emailing people. I have a buddy that

320
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works for Secretly Canadian, the. That record

321
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label. And so I, I reached out to him. I was like, all right, if

322
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I'm actually going to send this around, what would I Do. And

323
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so he kind of gave me some pointers and stuff and. Yeah.

324
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And so I. But eventually Tooth and Nail, they

325
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just. I got like a text one day or something and I thought it was

326
00:20:33,530 --> 00:20:37,369
one of my friends messing with me because I was like, this is.

327
00:20:37,690 --> 00:20:41,450
That's crazy. You know, there's a lot of bands and records I love

328
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from. From that. That label.

329
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Yeah, they have some huge, huge artist. I mean, there.

330
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So. So I feel. I was. I still kind of, you know, pinch

331
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,360
myself. I'm like, this. This doesn't feel real sometimes. It's. But it's.

332
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,480
It's awesome. I'm. I'm so happy it happened.

333
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,680
So. Yeah, they. But it. But the record was already finished, so I just like

334
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sent it to them and it was basically just put it out. Yeah, I

335
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,760
was like, do you like it? Check yes or no. And they. They checked yes,

336
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,490
thankfully. And. And yeah.

337
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:18,010
And I. And then we just sort of coordinated with releasing it and stuff

338
00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:24,170
and. Awesome. Who. Who are you talking with? My neighbor is an

339
00:21:24,170 --> 00:21:27,730
ANR for Tooth and Nail. No way. Wait, who are they? His

340
00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:31,450
name's Brian Ortiz. Is that who assigned

341
00:21:31,450 --> 00:21:35,250
you? No way. Yeah. That's awesome. That's so

342
00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:38,090
cool. I gotta tell him that I chatted with you. He signed a couple other

343
00:21:38,090 --> 00:21:41,890
people I've spoke to going to the nail because I worked through Adam

344
00:21:41,890 --> 00:21:45,610
Splitter, but they do a lot of the PR for. For

345
00:21:45,610 --> 00:21:49,370
them. So. Yeah, I know He. He does that in

346
00:21:51,050 --> 00:21:54,850
the. The More. The full Christian side. What is it called,

347
00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:58,650
CBE or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

348
00:21:58,650 --> 00:22:02,490
So that texted you and said, hey, yeah, let's do this. Yeah. He's

349
00:22:02,490 --> 00:22:06,130
like, hey, Brian from Tooth and Nail, can we. Can we talk? And I was

350
00:22:06,130 --> 00:22:08,100
like, yes, yes, we can.

351
00:22:09,860 --> 00:22:13,020
Yeah. He lives right down the road from me, and my son and his son

352
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:16,580
are like, like best friends. Oh, that's awesome. So good.

353
00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:20,740
That's crazy. Cool, man. So then, yeah, so he gets you signed up, you. You

354
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:24,420
guys put that record out and. And you're. And you just put

355
00:22:24,420 --> 00:22:28,140
out another. Or you're about to put out. That's right. Yeah. So

356
00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:31,220
tell me about this. This album. And since this would be the first time you

357
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:34,820
technically were working with them

358
00:22:35,140 --> 00:22:38,180
as far as putting the album together, because before it was like, this is done.

359
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:41,460
Do you want it? Right, Correct. Yeah. So this time around, it's.

360
00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:45,140
Let's work on an album. And yeah. Was that different?

361
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:50,099
I mean, they basically were just like, we'll give you what you need for

362
00:22:50,099 --> 00:22:53,700
studio time. But I think one of the things I,

363
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:57,420
I admire about the label is they don't, they're

364
00:22:57,420 --> 00:23:01,230
not, you know, they're not whipping me with,

365
00:23:01,230 --> 00:23:04,950
you know, mandates to say it's got to sound like this and you

366
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:08,670
got to do this thing. And there has to be trap rap,

367
00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:12,110
hi hats in there somewhere. You know, they don't say any of that stuff. So

368
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:15,670
I just kind of told. I remember I actually, I had a phone call with

369
00:23:15,670 --> 00:23:19,030
Brian maybe a year or two ago, and it was like, this is my vision

370
00:23:19,030 --> 00:23:22,790
for the record. And he goes, like, sounds great. Let's do it.

371
00:23:22,790 --> 00:23:26,430
You know, it's just like. Like what? You know, he. No second thoughts for him.

372
00:23:26,430 --> 00:23:28,920
He was just like, okay, cool. Sounds good. And,

373
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,800
but with that, I mean, I think there's just a lot of

374
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,600
trust. Like, they, they're as in, they're kind of like, hey,

375
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,440
look, kid, I think you're, you're probably perfectionistic enough anyway,

376
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,960
so we'll just let you do your thing.

377
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,720
Do what you want. That's cool. Yeah, but they,

378
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,880
and I think that they have, like, if I needed a mastering engineer or anything,

379
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,730
they would, they would provide that. I, I, I like to

380
00:23:56,730 --> 00:24:00,490
use Dave Wilton out in Colorado. He does, he's a friend of

381
00:24:00,490 --> 00:24:03,770
mine and he does really great work, and so he's mastered the last two records.

382
00:24:05,370 --> 00:24:08,210
But with stuff like that, I think with anything, they, they would be happy to

383
00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:11,650
provide stuff if I needed it, but a lot of times it's, there's. I have

384
00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:15,330
enough local connections anyway that I'm able to put stuff

385
00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:18,890
together. So they're a little more hands off when it comes to those things. Yeah,

386
00:24:18,890 --> 00:24:22,340
they're, they're just, they're like, whatever, you know, you turn it in now. If I

387
00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:25,780
turn in, I, I feel like if I turn in, like a polka record or

388
00:24:25,780 --> 00:24:29,140
something, they'd be a little thrown off, you know, not that I would ever. Probably.

389
00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:33,100
Yeah. Yeah. Like, this doesn't sound. Let's reconsider what

390
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:36,739
we're doing here. Yeah, yeah. So. But, you know,

391
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:41,060
this. I, I think everybody's been happy with, with

392
00:24:41,060 --> 00:24:44,780
what I turned in, so. That's awesome, man. So

393
00:24:44,780 --> 00:24:48,050
tell me about the album then. Going to the album was the concept.

394
00:24:48,290 --> 00:24:52,090
Yes. So the album's called June, and I wanted to

395
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:55,410
make something that effectively is just, just a really immediate

396
00:24:55,650 --> 00:24:58,210
album, that it would be

397
00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:03,490
like the kind of thing you'd want to put on in the car and just

398
00:25:03,490 --> 00:25:07,090
go for a drive and. Because that's how I've been listening to music a lot

399
00:25:07,090 --> 00:25:10,610
in the last couple of years is, you know, what what music, what songs do

400
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:14,300
I really like to just put on in the car? And it. And I just

401
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:18,260
take a ride around town and, and just soak it in and

402
00:25:18,260 --> 00:25:21,900
enjoy it. But also things that study,

403
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:24,860
things that I want to like, play over and over again.

404
00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:30,500
So whether that's the Goo Goo Dolls or

405
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,020
Oasis or, you know, you name it. But,

406
00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:38,140
but I think that there's like, there are elements to be studied about that.

407
00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:41,950
So there's. I studied a lot

408
00:25:41,950 --> 00:25:45,510
of like what makes up the skeleton of these songs that

409
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:50,270
I have enjoyed since childhood. And as a

410
00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:53,430
28 year old I'm still like listening to them over and over again.

411
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:59,310
And so, yeah, I just did a whole lot

412
00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:02,950
of looking into it and, and trying to

413
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:06,310
implement some of those strategies into my own writing with the songs I was making

414
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:07,670
for the record and,

415
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:13,750
and just basically I just make a really polished kind of alternative pop

416
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:17,550
rock record. I think I was thinking, I was

417
00:26:17,550 --> 00:26:21,350
like, I want it. I want it to sound like it's this lost record from

418
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:24,510
1998 or something that it. And it. And it has

419
00:26:24,510 --> 00:26:28,350
resurfaced. It's like, oh, this was going to come out back then, but. But here

420
00:26:28,350 --> 00:26:32,070
it is now. You know, I don't know if it actually sounds like

421
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:35,350
that, but I think it does. I was going to say it has that like,

422
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:38,860
kind of tones to it. Yeah. And I got the first.

423
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:42,180
I think it's. Maybe it's the first song album, the piano ballad that kind of

424
00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:45,580
starts it and like just the guitars and like the other

425
00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:49,220
sounds in there kind of remind me of. Yeah, that

426
00:26:49,220 --> 00:26:52,460
90s alternative kind of style. Well, good.

427
00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:55,900
I'm so glad you said that. That's reassuring.

428
00:26:55,980 --> 00:26:59,420
So we, My gosh, I mean, we reference so much stuff

429
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,340
of just. I mean, my favorite era is going to be the 90s also. I

430
00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:06,690
love the 80s and 70s and 2000s and all that stuff. But

431
00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:10,610
in particular, I mean, there's like, there's just,

432
00:27:12,610 --> 00:27:16,330
you know, I don't know how nerdy we want to get, but there's, there's. There's

433
00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:20,050
like a way that like drums are mixed now like in 2024

434
00:27:20,290 --> 00:27:23,890
that I hate. I don't like it because it's, it's like everything's like

435
00:27:23,890 --> 00:27:27,010
so. And this is my opinion, you know, so people,

436
00:27:28,050 --> 00:27:30,810
if they want, but like, it's like I'm not going to mix my record where

437
00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:34,610
the drums are just like slapping you in the face as hard

438
00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:38,330
as possible and they almost just sound like fake. There's this

439
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:41,450
artifice to it that I don't like, but then you go back and listen to,

440
00:27:41,450 --> 00:27:45,210
like, the first Audio Slave record and it's. The drums

441
00:27:45,210 --> 00:27:48,210
are kicking your butt, but they're not overbearing.

442
00:27:50,050 --> 00:27:53,770
Yeah. It's even like the, you know, the earlier. The Nirvana album. Oh, yeah,

443
00:27:53,770 --> 00:27:56,130
yeah. There's like the, there's kind of some, like,

444
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,600
for all of those 90s bands, really. There's, there's, like. It doesn't sound

445
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000
perfect. Like, the tones aren't perfect. Yeah. Which I think is

446
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,040
cool. Yeah, yeah. There's. The newer drums are

447
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,880
really, like. Because the EQ

448
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,520
is perfect and everything can be like, like, you know, warped into this

449
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,320
really perfect sound. Like the kick's gonna sound the same every single

450
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,120
time. Or the, you know, like, I think there's something cool about having

451
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,960
a little grit to, to those elements. Yeah. And, and

452
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,720
it's not even that, like, I'm against using samples and stuff like that because that's

453
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,760
on the record. I mean, there's, there's places where we use that. I, I, in

454
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,160
fact, I love using a kick sample because I think that that helps a lot

455
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,160
as well. What people don't know, maybe, is if you go back and

456
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,760
listen to these records mixed by Andy Wallace and Butch

457
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,480
Vig and stuff like that. It's funny now because with AI you can

458
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,010
like, there's, there's all these videos now. You can find

459
00:28:53,170 --> 00:28:57,010
the isolated drums from Smells Like Teen Spirit or whatever,

460
00:28:57,250 --> 00:29:01,090
and you listen to this stuff and you're like, shoot, they were using a kick

461
00:29:01,090 --> 00:29:04,930
sample like that. A lot of these things are. They're more robotic than we

462
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:08,770
thought. But at the same time, I'm like, as long as it

463
00:29:08,770 --> 00:29:11,730
was a real performance at one time. Right. I don't care.

464
00:29:12,290 --> 00:29:15,690
Yeah. It's like if, but if I need to take a kick sample to

465
00:29:15,690 --> 00:29:19,340
replace my flubby sounding kick drum that I recorded that we just

466
00:29:19,340 --> 00:29:22,900
didn't get the tone right. But if I can fix that in

467
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:26,060
post, but still maintain the, like, humanity of the performance,

468
00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:30,580
I'm going to do that. So I think what,

469
00:29:30,580 --> 00:29:34,380
what, what gets on my nerves is like, we joked

470
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:37,900
a lot about, while we were mixing this album because

471
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,620
Smashing Pumpkins was releasing their album Autumn, which is the most,

472
00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:44,900
like, most recent thing that they've done, and it is the most

473
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:48,610
quantized, just compressed to high heaven,

474
00:29:48,850 --> 00:29:52,690
just, Just not, not. They lost the plot, you know, it's

475
00:29:52,690 --> 00:29:55,890
just not the same. They lost quite a while ago. Yeah, they did.

476
00:29:58,850 --> 00:30:01,410
But, hey, if I met Billy Corgan today, I'd give him a high five and

477
00:30:01,410 --> 00:30:03,490
be like, dude, oh yeah. It's like one of the thank you so much. Writers

478
00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:07,170
of all time. But yeah, but it's either way quite a bit.

479
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:11,130
Yeah, so. But yeah, listening to like,

480
00:30:11,130 --> 00:30:14,920
their, their records from the 90s and stuff, you're just like, this

481
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,680
is some of the best mixed music I've ever heard in my life.

482
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,360
And, and I, I now. So that to me is like the standard of,

483
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,360
you know, their, their records from like 91 to 2000. I'm

484
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,840
like, that's. That, that's the gold standard for me. It's what I want my

485
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,760
albums to sound like. And so.

486
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640
But yeah, there's, there's just so many like, tricks and stuff. Like, I'm not, I'm

487
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,700
not opposed to quantizing. I'm not opposed to using,

488
00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:45,740
using technology to, to fix mistakes and stuff like that.

489
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:49,940
I'm not even. I'm really not opposed to Auto Tune either. But all the stuff

490
00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:53,460
is just like, am I using these tricks

491
00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:57,260
to make it lifeless and, and sound

492
00:30:57,260 --> 00:31:00,300
like a robot made it, or am I doing it to just,

493
00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:04,700
you know, sand down the rough edges and, and polish it where it needs to

494
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:08,550
be polished, but, but still have an intention to maintain

495
00:31:08,550 --> 00:31:10,790
the humanity of it all at the end of the day?

496
00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:15,550
Because there's some places where you need to leave the mistakes in. Because the mistakes,

497
00:31:15,550 --> 00:31:19,190
like you said, can be really cool and make it feel, make it feel human.

498
00:31:19,910 --> 00:31:23,470
Right, Right, right. No, I, I love it. It's. It's funny you brought up

499
00:31:23,470 --> 00:31:27,270
Auto. Have you heard like, TI sing normally?

500
00:31:28,790 --> 00:31:32,190
Yeah. It's insane how good he is. It's like, why do you make your voice

501
00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:35,430
robotic all the time? Yeah, well, I think people, a lot of people don't realize

502
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:39,350
there's a way to sing into. Like, if

503
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:43,350
I think nowadays I sing, I'm like, I, I'm consciously aware that

504
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:47,670
there's gonna be put on this at the, at the back

505
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:51,390
end. Right Enough to. Where it's like, like, to me, I see Auto

506
00:31:51,390 --> 00:31:55,190
Tune as like if you go bowling

507
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:59,070
and you have those little, like, safeguards up. Yeah, that's

508
00:31:59,070 --> 00:32:02,480
really all it's supposed to be bumpers. You know, it's like, okay, I was trying

509
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,760
to hit that E at one point, but I fell a little shy of where

510
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,520
I was supposed to go. But the, with the computer program, you can just. It

511
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,440
just kind of nudges it in and fixes that.

512
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,320
But if it's a thing where it's like, dude, you just can't sing, you have

513
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,000
no idea what you're doing, then it becomes glaringly obvious. That auto tune was

514
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520
used because it's like over

515
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,360
correcting and it's. Yeah, it sounds way robotic. Once you're. If you're totally

516
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,940
off. If you're just saying something and had no clue what you're doing

517
00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:34,780
you. When it fixes it it just doesn't sound right. You're like yeah.

518
00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:38,860
And one, one thing do two. I used Melodyne

519
00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:42,700
to. Not on my voice but on. Because there's a lot of pedal

520
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:46,220
steel in this record and pedal still.

521
00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:49,900
I'm like unless you are the most.

522
00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:53,860
I'm not saying this guy, the guy who. The session musician did an amazing

523
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:57,460
job but pedal still is one of those things that it's. It can be a

524
00:32:57,460 --> 00:33:01,100
cent or two off and to my ears which are pretty sensitive. I'm like

525
00:33:01,180 --> 00:33:04,700
there's that needs to be fixed, you know. So I got,

526
00:33:05,420 --> 00:33:08,940
I got Melodyne where you can do like polyphonic

527
00:33:08,940 --> 00:33:12,220
tuning where there's. You can. You can scan in like

528
00:33:12,620 --> 00:33:15,500
all of the notes that occurred and whatever instrumental performance

529
00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:19,580
and you can like go in and like correct,

530
00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:24,020
you know, whatever notes. Need to be corrected. But as I was doing

531
00:33:24,020 --> 00:33:27,380
that and I'm like hearing back the

532
00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:31,140
corrected version of the, you know, the performance and stuff and

533
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:34,780
then, and then you kind of realize like everybody be doing this.

534
00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:38,220
Like everybody's doing this. All of the,

535
00:33:38,620 --> 00:33:42,340
you know. And now I'll listen to like you know, million dollar

536
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:45,820
albums by this or that popular artist and I'm.

537
00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:49,900
And I'm like shoot, they're doing it. They're using Melodyne to

538
00:33:50,060 --> 00:33:53,420
you know. And so it's like if the pros are doing it then

539
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:57,620
it's almost kind of silly to not. Not utilize the tools

540
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:58,700
that, that they're using.

541
00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:04,900
But again if it's like, if it's just like a crappy performance altogether which this

542
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:08,220
was not. That's like I said the and. And the.

543
00:34:09,980 --> 00:34:13,580
Because I think that there's. You can hear something getting overcorrected

544
00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:16,460
where it was like it was just really poor to begin with and we had

545
00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:20,120
to salvage it. But that was never the case I don't think with

546
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,240
any of the. The performances with this record.

547
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,200
Jimmy Smith and, and Michael Minkoff, the guys I worked with,

548
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,880
their philosophy is like we need to get it as good

549
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,200
as we can going into the box so that we don't have

550
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,680
to like you know, really 10 spend too much time

551
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,720
polishing and overcorrecting on the back end and the

552
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:46,669
post production stuff. So it's kind of this philosophy is like needs to be as

553
00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:49,429
good as possible when we record it

554
00:34:50,469 --> 00:34:54,309
so we're not having to play doctor at the. @ the end there. Right.

555
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:59,189
And I think that this record really shows that. I mean, just

556
00:34:59,189 --> 00:35:02,709
listening back to it, I'm really happy with a lot of the tones we got

557
00:35:04,309 --> 00:35:08,109
and. Yeah. So I. I think I would confidently

558
00:35:08,109 --> 00:35:11,669
say at this point in my career that this is the.

559
00:35:12,130 --> 00:35:15,770
This is the most, like, polished and clean sounding album, but at the same time,

560
00:35:15,770 --> 00:35:19,010
there's still these rough edges and stuff that are there

561
00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:22,610
intentionally. But I think that this is probably the best.

562
00:35:23,250 --> 00:35:26,770
Sonically, this is the best

563
00:35:26,770 --> 00:35:30,210
sounding album that I've. I've done so far and I'm really proud of.

564
00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:34,450
Proud of the work we did. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. The songs I've

565
00:35:34,450 --> 00:35:37,410
heard thus far are, Are killer, man. Yeah. Thank you.

566
00:35:38,730 --> 00:35:42,170
And then the album coming out in a week. Are you doing like a release

567
00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:46,010
show or. I know you're doing obviously the, the. The one festival

568
00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:49,850
again, but yeah, we're. We're gonna have

569
00:35:49,850 --> 00:35:52,970
like a. A party here in town and

570
00:35:54,570 --> 00:35:58,290
I. So one thing that's going on in my life right now

571
00:35:58,290 --> 00:36:01,570
is at the end of this month, I'm getting married. Wow.

572
00:36:01,570 --> 00:36:05,300
Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. And so

573
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:09,060
Catherine, my soon to be wife, is throwing. She's

574
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:12,500
throwing a party for the album release. And so

575
00:36:13,460 --> 00:36:16,860
I'll probably play a couple of songs or whatever, but I think it's mostly she

576
00:36:16,860 --> 00:36:20,460
just. She's like, I don't want to stress you out, you know, like, we're just

577
00:36:20,460 --> 00:36:23,580
gonna have. We might listen through the record or it might be on in the

578
00:36:23,580 --> 00:36:26,940
background, but it's mostly just going to be kind of a. A

579
00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:30,340
celebration with friends and everybody to kind of just

580
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:34,430
she. Because I mean, she's like. She's like, I know you better than anybody. I

581
00:36:34,430 --> 00:36:38,030
know that you've nearly driven yourself insane trying to finish this

582
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:41,830
record. So we're gonna. We're gonna celebrate and, and

583
00:36:42,070 --> 00:36:45,870
just throw a little, little party with some friends to, to commemorate

584
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:49,590
the occasion and all the hard work. Very, very cool.

585
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:53,110
Well, I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Josh, for doing this. Yeah,

586
00:36:53,110 --> 00:36:56,910
man. Yeah. It was just fun talking to you. Yeah. I do have

587
00:36:56,910 --> 00:37:00,670
one more question for you. I want to know if you have any advice for

588
00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:01,830
aspiring artists.

589
00:37:05,110 --> 00:37:07,510
I would say just keep,

590
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:12,910
keep working and keep, keep honing your craft. That might be kind of a

591
00:37:12,910 --> 00:37:16,230
boring answer, but I think,

592
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:22,630
like, the best thing to be doing is to

593
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:26,310
like, challenge yourself on, on songwriting and stuff like that. Always

594
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:29,940
be thinking, what can I do better? And to. And to really, really

595
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:33,660
study the songs that inspire

596
00:37:33,660 --> 00:37:37,500
you figure out. Don't. Don't be just saying I like this song

597
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,580
because it sounds great. You know, Figure out what is it

598
00:37:40,820 --> 00:37:44,620
exactly about the songs that you enjoy? You know, I

599
00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:48,460
like it that this. This one song, it goes to

600
00:37:48,460 --> 00:37:52,220
a minor third at the bridge, and then I like the Corporation there. I think

601
00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:55,990
that really speaks to me. Then borrow it and try it in your own

602
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:59,710
song, you know, and an experiment. So, yeah,

603
00:37:59,790 --> 00:38:03,550
learn the tricks that the guys that you really enjoy. Learn their tricks and

604
00:38:03,550 --> 00:38:07,390
then see if you can implement them in your own songs and experiment and

605
00:38:08,590 --> 00:38:10,750
just see what you get on the other side.

606
00:38:20,750 --> 00:38:24,510
You bring

607
00:38:24,590 --> 00:38:28,270
it backward, bring it backward, bring

608
00:38:28,270 --> 00:38:31,990
it backward? Bring it back, bring

609
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:33,310
it backward?