BiB: Jake (In Hearts Wake) – Parental Warning: Tarot Cards, Bonus Dads & Metal Core Breakthroughs!

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Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. What is

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going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast. We're

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both listening. Legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories

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of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had

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the chance to hang out with Jake of the band in Heart's

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Wake over Zoom Video, Jake talks about where he was born

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and raised around Sydney and Australia, Byron Bay, and how he got

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into music. His stepdad, or we were calling

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bonus dad, is Randy Raymond of the band Mass

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Appeal. And Jake didn't even know he was

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in a band around, he says, 12, 13 years old.

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Mass Appeal got asked to play a reunion show in support

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of the West Memphis Three, where they got a chance

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to play with Black Flag and Henry Rollins. And that

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was the first time that Jake had a chance to

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see Randy perform. His bonus dad perform.

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So he had no idea what the band was, how big

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they were. So we had a chance to be on side stage and

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watch him, you know, do what he. What he did for so many

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years, and then to see Black Flag and Henry Rollins after the show

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that made such a big impact on him. Where is a few years

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later, Jake ends up starting a band of his own. He talks about how

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In Hart's Wake formed. This is the only band he's ever been in.

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They got some recognition fairly early on.

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Talked about going to the United States to record their first

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album, which ended up getting signed to unfd.

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His mom's a tarot card reader, and the first album

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was based on 11 of the tarot cards. And

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it comes full circle with the new album, where they

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picked up and did the remaining 11 cards

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12 years later. But Jake gets into a lot of detail

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about the band's entire

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career. He gets really in depth on all of the albums, so

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it's super fascinating. They do a lot of really cool things with each record

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where they have all these clues and you can find things and

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unlock stuff or additional songs or messages

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about bonus albums. And they're doing a similar thing

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with this new album. So it was really cool to see kind of the

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evolution of the band and where they're at now. When they began recording

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the new album or just before it, they found out that

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their longtime basis and clean vocalist, Kyle, was

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going to leave the band. So they wrote a song with him kind of,

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you know, his last song with the band is called Farewell, and

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he's doing the last tour and support of this

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new album coming up in September. In Australia. So he's talk a lot about

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that as well. And you can watch this interview with Jake. It's up now on

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our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It'd

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be amazing if you subscribe to the channel like us on Facebook and

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follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Tik Tok at Bringing Back

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We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.

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Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It backwards

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with In Heart's Wake. Right on, man. Well, I'm Adam

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and this is about you and your journey in music. We'll talk about the album

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and. And all that great stuff that works. We can talk about you too.

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I'm not that interesting. He moved to Nashville. I

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was interested. I generally was. Are you. So you're

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from Australia originally, right? Yeah, yeah. Are you living in New

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York or. No, no, my family, I. My mom's side,

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so half American, so we're all from. Yeah.

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New York, a few generations, but

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my parents met on. On a

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movie set in like New Zealand and I ended up moving to Australia and

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that's how I ended up there. Yeah. Wow. I was going to ask if you

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come from a creative household. It sure sounds like it. I mean, if your parents.

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Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely the.

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I don't call the black sheep in their families, but in some ways. Yeah, you

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know, the artists wanting. The ones wanting to do shit differently.

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Yeah, the difficult ones. Yeah, that. That's cool.

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What do they do in the film industry

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back then? But they were both actors. Oh, I studied. My mom went

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to Yale doing drama, got a scholarship to go to Yale and

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my dad was acting in New Zealand and my mum, you know, went on

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an odyssey trip and one way or

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another, events led her to New Zealand and then she needed to pick up a

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job and so she's like, all right, cool. This is what I'm good at. So

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they both met on. Yeah. Movie set back in what, the

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80s? Yeah. Wow. Did they continue to act after you were born and

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everything? No, once my mum had me, I mean, bless her,

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she like, she had another dig. She went back to la, but then she was

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like, like, this is not. Like, this

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isn't living. This isn't like, I love the art form, but like,

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it's not. It's not worth it. Yeah.

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Yeah. Did your dad End up continuing deck. No, he

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didn't. No, no, they both stopped. My dad went into full, like, all

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right, well, we got to get a place. And he ended up buying a bakery.

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And. Yeah, he worked for the bakery. Then he bought the bakery because he

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realized, like, I was selling it. And this could actually, you know, the cash

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flow will generates enough to make it be a viable business. And

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then they just doubled down in Australia, and my mom went on to become a

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tarot reader because she was always really intuitive. Really got to be.

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You've got to be. Really. So she's still a tarot reader now. And my

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dad's picked up a couple of little, like, you know, fun acting gigs over the

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years. Okay. Maybe send me a photo doing things on

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student sets, like, with, you know, little film productions. But they were never for, like,

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they were always for passion. Yeah. Not to go make a career out

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of it. Yeah. That's awesome that your mom's a tarot card reader. I think that's

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so interesting. All that stuff is so fascinating. Yeah. Yeah,

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it is. It's. It's. Yeah, it is fascinating.

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Yeah. But she got, like, read you guys your cars and stuff in

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the. Or was it just something that she kind of did on as her business?

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No, it's her business. It's her business, like you. It's not

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a. It's not a. Oh, let's just see what happens if we pull a few

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cards. It's definitely, like, you've got to go to, like, pretty serious. There's going to

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be a need, let's just say. Okay. And so people that come to

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her, they're not the curious. The curious people, let's call. It

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doesn't always work out for them because they're coming in with a Just

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like, you know, a feeble curiosity as opposed to people that have a need.

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And we have a need, I believe. And from experience,

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like, that's when. I don't know. I use

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the better term. Spirit

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intuition, you know, the. The other side. The things that come through, that's

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when those things come through. And there's a need, because that's usually

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when they're getting too deep. It's usually when our hearts are most

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open. You know, we have a need either in a time of crisis, breakup,

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death, or longing, or, like, searching, you know, it's like, what am I

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gonna do? Yeah. And so she. Yeah, she actually went on

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a few. Like, they're funny, but like, TV shows, those getaway. Kind

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of like, we're going to Byron Bay, you know, like,

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you Know, like, was going to get a tower rating of Byron Bay. And she

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went on a few of those shows as the T reader that they went and

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visited because she had such a good rapport and,

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you know, just was the main reader in Byron at the time. And they

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came in with such, like, curiosity, but also just, like, for the TV show

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aspect. Yeah. A member of Gray Story, where she just like.

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Like the presenter was this, like, pretty egotistical

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dude. No personality. Yeah. And so

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she flips. She did. They did the cards and it was just like, well, man,

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you've, like. You're going through like a lot here. You've got a divorce coming up

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and this addiction. And he was just like, turn the cameras off. Like, how

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do you know this shit?

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And she's like, he just explains how it's coming out. And he was like, just

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weekend out, you know, like, you know, so. And sometimes it

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gives people what they need, not always what they want,

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but. Yeah, so that's. My mum did. Went onto that path,

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helping a lot of people and. And that

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curiosity, for me at least, about that world, led

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to doing a record, Divination, which is our first album

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back in 2012. But we'd spent a couple years writing it,

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so I was like, 1920 at the time. And

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it was just this exploration of. I did some tarot courses

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and thought, like, this is a great concept to

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write a record about because each card

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is like. It's a story and a thruway into

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characters. Like, whether it's Gandalf in Lord of the Rings or it's

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Dumbledore in Harry Potter. These are like the. The magician or

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the hermit characters that are in tarot. Just like

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Frodo is the full card, the full meaning. Like, you

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know, the innocent fool that's like, you know, got a heart of gold, that's walking

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the razor's edge all the time.

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So, yeah, I guess what I'm saying is these archetypes in all the movies and

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franchises that. That we love as kids and even teenagers,

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the medicine of them is like. Is baked in tarot.

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And so it just went through this, like, wow, I can. I can really sink

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my teeth. And it's really real for me, these songs and his stories.

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And so that started Divination, which really kicked the

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band off. Yeah, yeah, no, for

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sure. I was. And I love it. And I love that you have. I

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mean, one of the albums has, like, like an encrypted message in it and stuff.

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Like, that's just so creative and, like, I've never heard of Any other bands,

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like, doing that? Like, I mean, when I was growing up, you know, CDs were

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the thing tapes and CDs and like, green Day had, like, on dookie, like

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the secret song. You try to, like, fast forward 25 minutes for,

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you know, a song, like. But the way you guys did it with just like

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having to decode within there. What, in the liner

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notes? Not the liner notes.

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I mean, you could get the liner notes definitely unpacked the meanings

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of the songs as specifically to the tarot cards. But each song,

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it had in brackets next to which card. You know, it was,

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okay, so like Neverland, the Star, Traveler, the Fool.

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So it's. It's. It's the format in which each song was given. So people knew

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which cards they were about. And there's 22. There's

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22 major Arcana cards. And these are these archetypes,

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22 of them in every tarot deck. And so we did 11. And

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so there was 11 still sort of left unspoken for.

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Because the songs didn't relate to those 11. It wasn't. It wasn't a choice that

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it just. That's the cards that the other 11 were. And so for like, yeah,

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12 years, these cards were kind of just. We never really.

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It's. I guess you call unfinished. But there was no, like, we have to come

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back and finish this. But it was always this sort of knowing that

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these cards are out here. Maybe we'll revisit them someday. And

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fast forward 12 years. Like, the timing was right to.

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To revisit them in a. In a much more mature, darker

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way, because state of the world and, you know, actually feeling like

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adults now. And that's what the new album is. Right? You

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picked up kind of on those last 11 cards. Yeah,

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exactly. So interesting. So these. These are really dictated

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now. Obviously, you couldn't. It couldn't be as broad to have 22 and find 11.

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It was like, no, these are the 11. So it meant it's like, here's

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your targets, each song. And that, like, what's

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the great. There's a great indigenous proverb. It's, you know, an arrow without

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a target always misses. And so when you've got that target and

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it's clear, like, these are the goal posts, like, you really can

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put all your intention into really, like, making the devil

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card. Like, what is that? And really going there.

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So. So, yeah, it was more potent, I would say, in this record.

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So fascinating. Well, just to back up. But even before that first album came out,

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like, so how do you originally get into music. I mean, obviously

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parents were actors and did they play music at all

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as well? Or like how do you get introduced? And like what was. Did you.

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Were you in piano lessons or did you get guitar lessons at an early age

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or anything like that? Yeah, at my starter school. Went to

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Rudolph Stein School and we had to. Because compulsory to

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learn instrument. And so everyone was doing violin and cello

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and you're supposed to pick up one of those two and like, that's not for

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me. Like I. So. So I just sort of refused

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and like, hey, can I do guitar? And they gave me permission to like,

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yeah, okay. Like, sure. Like they were nice enough and you know, not

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nice enough, but just like, okay, the kid wants to do talent guitar. So I

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got guitar lessons and I was always listening to my parents CDs.

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Massive Attack, Chris Isaac, Michael Jackson, the

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Beatles, like just always, you know, in that collection that we all play when you're

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at home. So I got to understand music that

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way. But it was until. So my parents. My parents

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broke up. It had a divorce at like 7 or 8 years old.

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And a year or so later.

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I don't like the term stepdad, but he was. He's just

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guardian epic. And it's. My other dad essentially came into my life.

224
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Yeah, bonus dad. I'm a bonus dad. So I, I respect that.

225
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:18,660
Yeah. Step. Step. That's a weird. The term stepdad. I think you

226
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:22,540
go straight to like all the Disney movies and there's the stepmom and the evil

227
00:14:22,540 --> 00:14:26,380
stepmom. Exactly. Yeah. I love that you said that. You see

228
00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:29,860
it that way. That's amazing. Yeah. So, yeah, it's not a step. It's like.

229
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It's like extra dad bonus data. Like that bonus. That's cool. I'm

230
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gonna. So

231
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bonus dad was actually a musician. He played in a hardcore band called Mass

232
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Appeal. And they were like, I didn't know it at the time and

233
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only realized it later how much of a big band they were in the late

234
00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:52,420
80s, early 90s. They. They. They toured with

235
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Anthrax, they tour with like Black Flag,

236
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I think Fugazi. They're in the Fugazi too, I'm pretty sure. Just all.

237
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When all. When all those bands came to Australia, like Massive Heel were like the

238
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band that, you know, they were the parkway driver at the

239
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time to go, you know, to tour with the punk bands, get

240
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the support. And they were from Sydney. So

241
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I didn't understand music. But my, My

242
00:15:19,130 --> 00:15:22,930
bonus dad got asked at age. When I was age 12 or

243
00:15:22,930 --> 00:15:26,500
13 to do a reunion show because Henry Rollins was

244
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doing a West Memphis three Black Flag reunion

245
00:15:30,340 --> 00:15:34,060
tour. And I was in support of the West Memphis three fundraiser for those.

246
00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:37,780
Oh yeah. Convicted. Yeah. Oh yeah. That was. And I'm.

247
00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:41,500
I. When I was driving to. When we drove

248
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:44,900
from San Diego to Tennessee, you go through West Memphis,

249
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Arkansas into West Memphis, Tennessee. I mean, it's

250
00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:52,540
bizarre. They're like right there. And yeah, we drove buy all

251
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:56,020
that because I was. I remember when that happened and

252
00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,180
I was at like an Alkaline Trio show. I'd never heard of it. In the

253
00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:02,900
beginning of the show, they played kind of a

254
00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:06,740
short video of what was happening and like Eddie Vedder was in the video

255
00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:10,660
and like that was such an interest. I mean that whole thing was just

256
00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:14,420
so wild and how that was all happened. And then they really never.

257
00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:18,510
I mean it was alluded that it was a stepfather. And we'll go

258
00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:22,270
with stepfather on that one that you know. You know, that did

259
00:16:22,270 --> 00:16:25,990
it. But wow. So, okay, so that was happening and then they were

260
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:29,110
going to do a show in support of, you know,

261
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:33,590
fundraiser. Yeah. For them. Yeah. And

262
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:36,350
Henry Rollins, you know, he wasn't a member of Black Flag, but he was like.

263
00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:38,630
Had brought it. Like it was billed as

264
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:43,910
Henry Rollins with Black Flag. A Black Flag with Henry Rollins. I can't remember. Henry

265
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:47,700
Rollins is very much on the poster to like show that he was not

266
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,660
still part of the band, but they were getting together to like play this special

267
00:16:50,660 --> 00:16:53,780
tour and they. Henry had specifically asked a mass appeal

268
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,540
to like to be on the tour because they had toured together in the past.

269
00:16:58,180 --> 00:17:01,940
And so there. There I was, I was like, I don't know how old. I

270
00:17:01,940 --> 00:17:05,220
keep saying 11, 12, 13. I can't quite remember, but pre

271
00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:08,700
puberty, this little kid, like I remember being on side

272
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:12,460
stage, they pulled me in the back. Security guards were super reluctant to let me

273
00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:15,420
into this 18 + like drinking know venue

274
00:17:16,860 --> 00:17:20,660
as security guards always are. They've got all the. You know,

275
00:17:20,660 --> 00:17:24,420
I get it. But anyway, so I'm standing side stage and I remember watching

276
00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:27,940
my stepdad just like, like screaming

277
00:17:27,940 --> 00:17:31,380
like, you know, the calm like, chill dude. And then he's on stage, he's gone

278
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:34,700
nuts. And it was a sold out for the band.

279
00:17:34,940 --> 00:17:38,540
Is the vocalist. Yeah. And. And

280
00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:42,340
like this punk, it was hardcore punk. I didn't understand the music, but I understood

281
00:17:42,340 --> 00:17:46,110
the energy. And the crowd was going absolutely nuts.

282
00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:49,510
I'd never seen anything like it. It was like a mix of like head

283
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:53,270
banging and chaos, you know, like everything was just being thrown around the room

284
00:17:53,910 --> 00:17:57,670
and it was just like I was hooked, you know, and

285
00:17:57,830 --> 00:18:01,470
then I got to watch Henry do it with a Black flag. And then I

286
00:18:01,470 --> 00:18:05,110
got to meet Henry after the show. I remember just this, you know,

287
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:09,190
got a presence about him, and he was still really, like, in his,

288
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:12,460
like, you know, I want to say. No, he's an old guy now, but he's

289
00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:16,180
in his youth. Like, he's still very, like, energetic and fit and have

290
00:18:16,180 --> 00:18:20,020
this big energy. I remember. Hey, man, what's up? You know, like, got to meet

291
00:18:20,020 --> 00:18:23,860
him. Like, Brandon, Randy, my step, like, hey, Henry, this is my son Jake.

292
00:18:23,860 --> 00:18:27,620
And it was like, oh, my God, this dude is so scary on stage, but

293
00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:31,380
you're so nice, you know, like, backstage. And it kind of

294
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:34,780
completed the. The paradox, you know, of my

295
00:18:34,860 --> 00:18:38,640
knowing my dad step. My bonus dad is calmly going on the stage and

296
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,320
then seeing the other way around, where the guy was crazy and then meeting Henry

297
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,240
offstage, and he was nice. And I'm like, okay, this adds up. But these people

298
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,840
are. Something going on here. They're letting their stuff out and

299
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,440
providing a space for people to go nuts. And

300
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,000
it's not necessarily who they are offstage, but it's still a part of them. So

301
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,840
I thought that was really cool. I can imagine how that would

302
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,240
get you into music. I mean, being sidestage for shows like that and.

303
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,480
And having your. Your bonus dad

304
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,280
be, like, in this band, like, I mean, to not know how big of a

305
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,960
deal they were, you know, at 11, 12, 13, whatever

306
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,680
years old, and then they do this reunion show, and you're just like, damn. Like,

307
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,400
was that the first time you had a chance to see him perform like that?

308
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,720
Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. That wasn't. You know, we didn't

309
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,480
have. I don't think there was YouTube. You

310
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,240
know, I couldn't just go on YouTube and watch something at that point. Yeah. And

311
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,000
they weren't playing actively. They did a reunion. No, exactly. They

312
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,240
fully joined back up. So, I mean, he might have showed me a few photos

313
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,760
to allude to. Oh, yeah. I was in a band, like, but I had no

314
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,440
concept of it. Right. Yeah. I wasn't like, check this out. Like, I was in

315
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,160
this. Yeah. Yeah. He just happened to find out all this crazy

316
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,560
information. My. My Black Flag story is

317
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,640
my. My son. My. My. The one that I'm

318
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,760
bonus dad to in second grade, his

319
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,560
teacher, her brothers or her. Yeah, her

320
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,000
brother's Greg Ginn and from. From Black

321
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,400
Flag, and her other brother is the one that does all the art for.

322
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,520
You know. You know, he's done all the art for A bunch of different

323
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,080
people. And then Black Flag. We saw Black Flag at a

324
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,760
skateboard demo that we're at. And,

325
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,920
you know, he's like. He has a picture of Greg and he's like, in second

326
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,080
grade. And it's so funny because he usually doesn't like

327
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,240
photos. He doesn't do like interviews or anything like that. But, you know,

328
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,680
we walked up to him, I was like, oh, my. My son's. Your. Your

329
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,320
sister's my son's teacher. And he's like, really? We're like, yeah,

330
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,600
Erica McMenam. And he's like, oh, my God. And then. So like, he took a

331
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,400
picture with him and stuff. It was. It was wild, you know. And then he

332
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,080
got to see him play and like, Mike Valle was singing Black Flag at the

333
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,820
time. But it was. It was wild. But wow. Yeah. For him

334
00:20:52,820 --> 00:20:56,060
to see, like, whoa, that's my second grade teacher's brother. You know,

335
00:20:57,180 --> 00:21:00,820
probably similar to what you said. You're like, oh, that's my dad's like, band. Like,

336
00:21:00,820 --> 00:21:04,460
this is crazy. Crazy. But so that.

337
00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:08,220
That obviously gave you the damn, like, this is what I want to do was

338
00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:10,580
like, did you kind of have that at that moment or was it just like,

339
00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:13,820
this is really cool? And then eventually you kind of realized like, that's.

340
00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:18,220
Yeah, yeah. I don't think it was a penny drop. It's the way

341
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:21,130
I want to do. It was just like I was exposed to it

342
00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:25,690
and I didn't realize it was what I wanted to do, I think,

343
00:21:25,690 --> 00:21:28,410
until we moved to Byron Bay.

344
00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:33,210
Okay, were you in Sydney at the time? Wait, no, no, sorry. We were already

345
00:21:33,210 --> 00:21:36,730
living in Byron Bay, but we just gone down to Sydney to watch the gig.

346
00:21:36,970 --> 00:21:40,490
Okay. So we were already living in Byron Bay, but it wasn't until.

347
00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:43,810
I don't know how I found out about it, but there was like some local

348
00:21:43,810 --> 00:21:47,410
hardcore shows on, like happening at the youth center. This

349
00:21:47,410 --> 00:21:51,090
tiny little. And two roller doors, like garage doors that they roll

350
00:21:51,090 --> 00:21:54,850
up and it's like five bucks

351
00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:58,370
and you go and, you know, a bunch of local hardcore bands would play.

352
00:21:59,170 --> 00:22:02,810
And it just so happened that the first show I

353
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:06,530
went to, I didn't go with my dad. I went with some friends from

354
00:22:06,530 --> 00:22:10,290
school. I think we were all 13, 14. So it's going to be within the

355
00:22:10,290 --> 00:22:13,920
year after I've seen, you know, massive. Your play. But

356
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,600
it was in my. This one might have been 10 bucks. Pretty sure it was

357
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,400
10 bucks, which was like, you know, expensive. But it was. It was

358
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,160
Terror. Terror were the headliner. Oh, wow. And

359
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,480
then it was like all these bands that were like, local, like 15 was like

360
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,840
my own 50 lines. No, it wasn't 50 lines. Doesn't matter who they were, but

361
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,560
they're all local bands. And

362
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,840
it was like the promoter was Resist Records, which were the. The band I

363
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,150
had Sun Parkway Drive. The Parkway Drive One

364
00:22:43,550 --> 00:22:47,310
weren't. Weren't massive yet. Like, they weren't selling out shows yet. Because I went

365
00:22:47,310 --> 00:22:50,750
to a Parkway show, like, pretty soon after. It was five bucks.

366
00:22:51,070 --> 00:22:54,870
It wasn't sold out. You know, it was like, yeah, really

367
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:58,670
cool time when you. Yeah, yeah. When you felt like you were part of something

368
00:22:58,670 --> 00:23:02,510
that wasn't yet meeting its demand. Like, you know what I

369
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:06,310
mean? There's still supply for it, but, like, it wasn't like, sold out, can't make

370
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:10,050
it in. So it felt like you discovered something because you knew how cool

371
00:23:10,050 --> 00:23:13,770
and like epic the energy was and the space was. And I was meeting people

372
00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:17,490
and. And that's where I sort of met the other half of

373
00:23:17,490 --> 00:23:21,090
the band, which would be in Harts Wake. They actually

374
00:23:21,090 --> 00:23:24,810
opened. They opened the show for Terror. They

375
00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:28,490
were just like 2:14, I think like 13:14. Same age as

376
00:23:28,490 --> 00:23:32,210
me. And I was a drummer and a guitarist. And

377
00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:36,030
I knew that my two neighbors, like,

378
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:39,630
we. We, you know, got interested in playing hardcore shows. And so later on I'm

379
00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:42,390
like, I know a drummer and a guitarist. They opened the Terror show like they

380
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:45,230
were in a good band and they were like, oh, I go to school with

381
00:23:45,230 --> 00:23:48,310
them. You know that my neighbors. I go to school those guys. There's a natural,

382
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:52,150
like, inroad of me asking them and then

383
00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:55,910
they. Those guys asking them at school. And next thing you know, we're all playing

384
00:23:55,910 --> 00:23:59,740
music together for a battle of the bands that was coming up. And

385
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:04,180
it's the three of the same members. But, you know,

386
00:24:04,180 --> 00:24:07,980
two have changed over the years. But we're still, still the band

387
00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:11,580
now. Were you guys in Harts Wake at that time? Was this, like,

388
00:24:11,820 --> 00:24:15,660
the band? So this was really your first band? Exactly,

389
00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:19,420
yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Not that not many people have that story

390
00:24:19,420 --> 00:24:23,020
to be like. And have it work and have you guys all still

391
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:27,300
be, you know, friends and close and. Because usually, you know, you

392
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:30,380
get to a point with a band or I hear the story a lot where,

393
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:34,380
you know, some people, you know, it's so much work,

394
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:38,020
right? I mean, you're, you're. You're grinding, there's no money. In the beginning, you're just

395
00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:41,580
trying to do anything. You're sleeping on floors. And some people

396
00:24:41,660 --> 00:24:44,700
just can't. Like, they realize, like, this isn't my

397
00:24:45,340 --> 00:24:48,500
vibe. You know, I want to get married or I want to do this or

398
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,420
I want to do that. And to have you all kind of stay together

399
00:24:52,140 --> 00:24:54,540
in and continue on, I mean, that's huge.

400
00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:59,750
Yeah, it takes a lot of work to. To stick at it. You got to

401
00:24:59,750 --> 00:25:03,550
have a lot of. A lot of conversations and don't let this sort of

402
00:25:03,550 --> 00:25:06,630
build up underneath the bed, you know, so then it's like.

403
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:11,030
Yeah. And I think, I believe. I know we've gotten really good at

404
00:25:11,429 --> 00:25:14,990
being able to communicate over the years and

405
00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:18,710
that's. That's been essential. You know, the two members that did change in shop

406
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:22,350
and change, it's been bass and drums. Those are. Those roles have

407
00:25:22,350 --> 00:25:26,030
changed out and you know, that. That is for those

408
00:25:26,030 --> 00:25:29,710
reasons. Like, one wanted to go on and have a family

409
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:36,190
and the other was a personality thing and, you know, who knows what.

410
00:25:36,750 --> 00:25:40,430
But yeah, just. You make the calls at the time, right? Yeah, yeah. But

411
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:43,910
us three, the two guitars, myself, we really had to,

412
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:47,670
yeah. Become good communicators. And it's been kind of like a true

413
00:25:47,670 --> 00:25:50,940
north, you know, for us, the band, at this point, when we been in the

414
00:25:50,940 --> 00:25:52,780
band more than half our lives.

415
00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:58,020
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. A bit. A bit of a tune off, you know, it's

416
00:25:58,020 --> 00:26:01,460
like, oh, yeah. Like at least we got the band. We can. We can pour

417
00:26:01,460 --> 00:26:05,300
out. It's like a diary entry to. And creative,

418
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:08,540
like dump. To be able to like. Yeah. Express.

419
00:26:09,260 --> 00:26:13,100
So it's very lucky to still have it. Amazing. You guys did

420
00:26:13,340 --> 00:26:16,980
what, like your. Your first, like, kind of. Tell me, you know, you said that

421
00:26:16,980 --> 00:26:20,780
first album kind of was the pinnacle. That kind of what really boosted the

422
00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:23,800
band. Right. But you had a couple EP prior to that first album coming out.

423
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,800
Yeah, yeah, definitely. A couple of EPs that was like a

424
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,600
demo. We did the Battle of the Bands. You had to have an original song.

425
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,400
So we wrote an original song. We play at the Battle of the Bands. Only

426
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,240
one of our members of the band was actually from that school. And

427
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,960
so we didn't win. Like, we got told afterwards because it was his guitar teacher

428
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,240
was like, yeah, you know, get the band to play the other bands, it'd be

429
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,960
fine. Like, he's like, I can't, can't. Can't give you the top

430
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,960
prize or anything because, you know, guys aren't all from this school. Like,

431
00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:54,770
that's pretty lame. You're like, but what if we won?

432
00:26:56,290 --> 00:27:00,130
Exactly. But there was, there was, it was. We were still

433
00:27:00,130 --> 00:27:03,010
like, I think it was a Christian school. You know, like, we're like We're Christian

434
00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:06,690
and we're like. We're fully just. You know, it's been us doing our thing.

435
00:27:06,690 --> 00:27:10,530
But I think the people were like, what is this? Like, there's some screaming

436
00:27:10,530 --> 00:27:12,810
and I don't know, you know, like, it wasn't. Yeah. I was gonna say, were

437
00:27:12,810 --> 00:27:16,450
you guys heavy? I'm sure you're a pretty heavy band. Even back. Yeah. At that

438
00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:20,180
point, they're like, what's going on? So we didn't.

439
00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:24,020
We didn't win, whatever. But we made a demo after that, and

440
00:27:24,020 --> 00:27:27,780
then it's like, okay, do you make an album? Not. Not ready.

441
00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:31,460
So the Glorified demo is the EP at that time. And

442
00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:35,940
I did it for my school project. You could actually do. For art. You could

443
00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:39,740
like, wow. So I was like, okay, cool. I'm gonna record my band for art.

444
00:27:39,740 --> 00:27:43,380
So we did that. The artwork, I got to basically do it. Like. One of

445
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:47,230
my curriculums was like, make my bands episode and do it all,

446
00:27:47,230 --> 00:27:50,430
like, you know, really professionally with, like, you know, the. Why did you do this?

447
00:27:50,430 --> 00:27:54,110
Like, you had to do this whole big folder of essays

448
00:27:54,110 --> 00:27:57,310
and essays and stuff. So it actually really allowed me to. It was cool that

449
00:27:57,310 --> 00:28:01,150
I could do that. To learn a lot quickly.

450
00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:05,110
Yeah. And then it was all right, what do you do next? You know, kind

451
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:08,430
of keep playing Sydney, Brisbane, and driving to these places

452
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:11,830
and Byron Bay so many times. So it was like, all right, let's all move

453
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:15,280
into a house together. I think we're 18 and

454
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,680
we all save up. Then we'll go to America to record. Because there's no one

455
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,520
in Australia that was, like, that sounded the way we wanted to sound. No one

456
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,320
recording gear at the time was, like, shy. And I think it

457
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,160
was also partly because there was as much experience with Australian producers.

458
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,240
Even Parkway were going overseas. They're recording with Adam D.

459
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,720
They're probably the first. The first band to, like, I think

460
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,560
I Kill the Prom Queen, I think record in Adelaide. But we didn't. We weren't

461
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,290
that stoked in the recording. So it was like, let's get overseas.

462
00:28:46,290 --> 00:28:50,010
So we saved up. We all worked our asses off, and we went

463
00:28:50,010 --> 00:28:52,850
over and recorded Josh Schroeder in Michigan. And that was

464
00:28:53,650 --> 00:28:57,330
like the. You know, we were hungry and we put everything into

465
00:28:57,330 --> 00:29:00,970
it, and that often produces the best results. And it was

466
00:29:00,970 --> 00:29:04,450
enough to make a good record that we were proud of that we could go

467
00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:08,050
send to labels. And UNFD were one of the labels that, like,

468
00:29:08,130 --> 00:29:10,910
yeah, this is great. Let's make this work. And so

469
00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:15,350
that. That really kicked it Off. So they signed you with, like,

470
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:18,910
you presented them this, that album, right? The first album. Exactly.

471
00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:22,190
Now, we funded it and, you know, we, we, we.

472
00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:26,030
We did it all ourselves and that we didn't have any outside, like,

473
00:29:26,510 --> 00:29:30,310
you know, like money or import. It was just us and

474
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:33,950
Josh. Josh Schroeder, he's the sixth member of the band. He was a

475
00:29:33,950 --> 00:29:37,750
great mentor and sort of steward when we went to record

476
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:40,670
with him, because we were the first international band, I think,

477
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:45,150
at least from Australia, there might have been a European band that had recorded with

478
00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:48,710
George. And so he was like, wow. Wow, you guys are, like,

479
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:53,150
really betting on me and putting all your money into me. And I've just got

480
00:29:53,150 --> 00:29:56,390
this bedroom studio. So he was like, I better step up too, you know? Yeah.

481
00:29:56,390 --> 00:29:59,110
I was wondering, like, he probably felt a lot of pressure. He's like, oh, man.

482
00:29:59,110 --> 00:30:02,630
Okay. Yeah. Money to come here. Like,

483
00:30:03,030 --> 00:30:06,590
we gotta make this a great album. Yeah. These guys are kids. Like, then we

484
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:09,510
think we were just turning 21. Some of us weren't even 21 yet. So we

485
00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:13,320
couldn't even go into, like, you know, legally into all the bars yet. So

486
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,920
we were kids as far as he was concerned. And he didn't want to. Do

487
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,720
you want to it up? So he was as hungry as we were. And

488
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,520
that. That. That really created good results. That's what we

489
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,199
needed. Yeah. Yeah. And when you sign with unfd,

490
00:30:27,199 --> 00:30:30,960
do they, like, how does that change? Like, are you able to

491
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,680
have access to bigger tours? Obviously? I mean, the album does awesome. You,

492
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,450
You. You know, you. You're like. You're on the charts

493
00:30:38,450 --> 00:30:42,170
there in. In Australia with the album and everything else,

494
00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:45,730
right? Yeah, it came as far as

495
00:30:45,730 --> 00:30:49,490
charts go. I remember it was like, think number 27. It debuted

496
00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:53,210
at 27, which was like.

497
00:30:53,370 --> 00:30:56,970
Which was like. We didn't even know what. We didn't know what the charts

498
00:30:56,970 --> 00:31:00,170
meant, I think. And it didn't really mean anything at the time because it's always

499
00:31:00,170 --> 00:31:03,050
changing. But still, it was a number. And for the first time we figured out

500
00:31:03,050 --> 00:31:06,510
we were like, you know, ranked at. Yeah, it was probably like a

501
00:31:06,510 --> 00:31:10,310
validation, right? You're like, wow, okay. People care about. Totally,

502
00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:14,230
totally. But UNFD was a label that we really admired

503
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:18,190
because they had signed, they had broken. Like, when I said broken, they

504
00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:21,910
had, you know, the. Under the Affliction were the

505
00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:24,870
early stuff, I think was on unfd. And

506
00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:29,110
we were really good friends with North Lane. Like, we were touring together in Australia,

507
00:31:29,270 --> 00:31:33,040
regionally, a lot of. And then seeing them get signed and,

508
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,480
like, had a record so we already had friends and house plus Hurricane. Dream on,

509
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,960
Dream on. These were bands that we had, you know, open their shows and played

510
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,800
their things in Australia. So we were just like joining the family that we.

511
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,880
We already were a part of. Just not officially in some way. Right.

512
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,320
And they have so many good bands. I mean, they, you guys, they still do.

513
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,960
Right. And but even before that, I mean, Beartooth, I think was on that label

514
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,690
at one point. I mean, maybe, maybe a bad deal.

515
00:31:58,690 --> 00:32:01,890
I don't know. But I don't know. Sure. I think Red Bull always had better.

516
00:32:02,530 --> 00:32:05,890
Okay. But I know that like, I was just looking at the.

517
00:32:06,130 --> 00:32:08,570
Like before I got on with you, I was just kind of looking at who

518
00:32:08,570 --> 00:32:11,770
they have now. I've had air on my. On my show a couple times. But

519
00:32:11,770 --> 00:32:15,410
like, I mean, you. They. Frank Euro has his, his stuff

520
00:32:15,410 --> 00:32:19,170
out on there. I mean, that's so crazy. Silverstein. I mean just. There's a lot

521
00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:23,010
of big name bands that yours truly had on here who are great

522
00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:26,520
band from Australia as well. Yeah, they definitely

523
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,440
dabbled in. In all different areas for sure. But back then it

524
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,200
was very much like there was no

525
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,040
international bands. It was just. Oh, it was only Australian bands.

526
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,560
It was only Australia. Exactly. And they were, they were the band

527
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,400
breaking, you know, the bands out and giving them a real

528
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,120
opportunity. It was kind of what Rise were doing in America.

529
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,500
Rise Records back in the day Fair, when.

530
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:56,340
Yeah, you know, when it was Deadwear's Prada and all those

531
00:32:56,340 --> 00:32:59,060
bands that were coming through.

532
00:32:59,940 --> 00:33:03,540
So yeah, so it definitely, once you get that

533
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:07,540
certification and validation of a brand, it also

534
00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:11,260
opens up other doors where you can start opening a whole bunch more to it.

535
00:33:11,260 --> 00:33:14,700
So then all of a sudden we got to open at the end to Shikari

536
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:18,390
tour. I think it was our first tour. Where were you like, oh, this is

537
00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:21,790
a big, you know, this is a bigger band. We're actually on a. Gonna be

538
00:33:21,790 --> 00:33:25,150
playing like, you know, a couple thousand people. This is scary, you know.

539
00:33:25,550 --> 00:33:29,350
Yeah. And when do you kind of get like at that point, were you

540
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:32,430
just still just playing in Australia mainly or

541
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:36,710
maybe New Zealand and Australia. Well, yeah, not hadn't played New

542
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:40,190
Zealand yet at that point. It was and Shikari till first

543
00:33:40,670 --> 00:33:44,430
and then. Then came the Amity Affliction European tour

544
00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:48,500
which was, yeah, you can open this tour. And so it was like really

545
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:52,020
exciting to go to go to that. So that was our.

546
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:55,780
That opportunity came from Divination on that touring cycle.

547
00:33:55,860 --> 00:33:59,540
And then, you know, doors start to open and then it's like, okay, we've got

548
00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:02,820
to get this band to America at some point.

549
00:34:03,620 --> 00:34:05,700
And I believe

550
00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:10,740
America took a little bit of time, but it was.

551
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,240
We actually. It actually coincided with two things. Ambie Affliction, Stick to your guns at

552
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:18,880
a co headliner. And we managed to get an opening spot on

553
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,640
their tour and right at the same time, the Ghost Inside,

554
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,000
which we had supported in Australia, just like we came such

555
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,640
good friends and they loved our music. And so we're doing an American tour. We're

556
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,360
going to a regional tour, B Markets, you know, can

557
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,720
you do it? And it just has so happened that that tour started two days

558
00:34:37,720 --> 00:34:41,440
after the Stick to Guns Amity tour. And because with B Markets on, with

559
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,160
A markets, it meant, you know, we couldn't. Because you can't just play the

560
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,360
same stuff so close to each other. It disrupts

561
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,840
exclusivity sometimes with tours. Yeah, there's like clauses, the

562
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,880
radius clauses and all that. Fun. Yeah. Come in all the business.

563
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,360
The business. Yeah. And just the exclusivity, which I totally get. You know,

564
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,000
give them an opportunity, you want to make it count. But it meant we could

565
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,880
do both tours. So all of a sudden we're in America for like seven, eight

566
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,720
weeks and we like thinking finished a tour in California, played

567
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:13,440
a Data Remembers festival, opened it. Remember it was called Self Help.

568
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,240
And yeah, that's a. That's a huge thing that they do. Yeah.

569
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,720
And we started the next tour with Ghosts Inside.

570
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,880
So I was like, yeah, you know, like a world was sort of blown open

571
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,000
at that point. Opening these bands that we just

572
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:32,080
adored. Wow. And then, I mean, you've

573
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,810
put out so many albums, right? I mean you're doing an album like every year.

574
00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:39,610
Every couple of years. For every two years. Every. Yeah, every

575
00:35:39,610 --> 00:35:43,050
two years since really what the band formed or

576
00:35:43,290 --> 00:35:47,050
I guess like Covid probably was a factor in the.

577
00:35:47,450 --> 00:35:50,810
The few year gap between the last two albums. But

578
00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:54,810
yeah, yeah, very, very busy.

579
00:35:55,370 --> 00:35:59,130
We just. Yeah, we got smart, you know, we recorded a double record,

580
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,680
which we're really proud of because we had so much content, like was good songs.

581
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,320
It wasn't just filler. And that double record we were able to release a year

582
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,160
apart, each. Each half of each other. This is what

583
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,680
you know, was the follow up to Divination. And so, you know,

584
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,800
you call ammunition. You've also got like two records for

585
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,520
the price of one. One trip and one. And the time that took

586
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,230
to go there once and were able to follow up in quick

587
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:29,710
succession and then tour off that as well. So that really

588
00:36:30,190 --> 00:36:33,910
like three, four years that became our. You know,

589
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:37,550
it was One recording session for three to four years, but with. Two records,

590
00:36:38,350 --> 00:36:42,190
was that like going in and recording? Like, was that. I

591
00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:45,350
mean, having that much material and then kind of separating it in that big of

592
00:36:45,350 --> 00:36:49,150
a gap, was that like, did you feel like at one

593
00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:52,430
point maybe you'd have even more songs and was it like, is this going to

594
00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:55,520
work? You know what I mean? Like, if you have all that in one batch

595
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,080
and then you're obviously writing and writing and writing out even after that fact,

596
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,680
like, did you feel like you might get backed up or like, is it

597
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,480
worth. Are we gonna do this second half or. Oh yeah, there's. There's

598
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,280
a bit. There's a bit. There's always that talk in the room. Yeah.

599
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,880
Like quality, not quantity. You brought

600
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,600
quality every time. So it wasn't like a matt. You know what I mean? Yeah,

601
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,160
yeah, yeah. But that's still the conversation that comes up. Because when you're so close

602
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,900
to your art or stretching to make a leap, you know there's

603
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:28,740
going to be a go to check yourself and have a conversation. As second

604
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:32,580
guessing always happens as an artist all the time. There's

605
00:37:32,580 --> 00:37:36,300
times that just feels good and you just know it's good. Like in terms of

606
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:40,420
like, it feels good and music, a piece of music. But in terms of a

607
00:37:40,420 --> 00:37:44,260
collection of songs, there's always the subjective, like, does this song make the album? Is

608
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:47,340
this something to be? You know, there's always that when you got five people.

609
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,600
So it came up, but I think we were shorter somewhat too.

610
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,880
So we were in the studio going, okay, we're going to write one to two

611
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,680
more. Rather than having so much they were cutting it back because coming up

612
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,200
with 22 songs for a recording session is a lot of material

613
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,840
when you don't want it to be filler. But it

614
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,400
fit, it fit the concept and the narrative that I felt really

615
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160
strongly about, which I pitched to the band and then, you know, we made it

616
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,240
ours as a band. But having this concept of like,

617
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,480
of, you know, Mother Earth and Father sky and to tell

618
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,160
that story into two. Two records ten years ago when.

619
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,000
Yeah, I just. Nowadays that kind of stuff, it can

620
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,760
New age kind of like, you know, it almost becomes cringe. But 10 years ago,

621
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,600
at least it wasn't happening in the metal world. Like right, right, right.

622
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,360
Talking about this stuff and it was so real, like

623
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,200
to us because we were from this natural beautiful world that we just adored

624
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,670
and. And yet we're in cities and backstreet playing these

625
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:50,030
rinky dink venues where you can tell like not to

626
00:38:50,030 --> 00:38:53,830
Judge it. But there wasn't a high vibe of people really thriving in the environment.

627
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:58,070
So like the separation and that. That stuff started to be apparent and then let's.

628
00:38:58,070 --> 00:39:01,630
Let's write a record about the things that we not feel strongly about but we

629
00:39:01,630 --> 00:39:05,110
want to protect. And I kind of spark this. This

630
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:08,950
is deeper journey of connection to the natural world.

631
00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:12,970
Love it. And when we were talking, we were talking kind of like, you know,

632
00:39:12,970 --> 00:39:16,490
you had the tarot cards and then 12 years later, I want to get into

633
00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:19,610
this new album and how cool it is that you've kind of revisited that. But

634
00:39:19,690 --> 00:39:22,890
I think it was it arc is that you had the. The

635
00:39:23,370 --> 00:39:26,970
where you. You kind of hid stuff in the.

636
00:39:26,970 --> 00:39:30,690
Was that the one where you hid stuff in there and it kind of smelled

637
00:39:30,690 --> 00:39:34,530
out a message or am I getting totally confused? It was

638
00:39:34,530 --> 00:39:38,320
the double record before that. Oh about the second half

639
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,760
when they. Yeah. Behind the CD put a C. And I was like this

640
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,440
clue on a piece of you know, one sheet of that. The poem

641
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,320
and a symbol. And I like someone happened to find it because they dropped the

642
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,480
city and you know the jewel cases, these are like scatter out. You have to

643
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,040
piece them back together. And someone found it behind and they're like what the hell?

644
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,440
Like what is this? And that's how it

645
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,390
found out. So then when we announced the record a year later, everyone

646
00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:07,190
was opening the city cases to like see and like oh, it was there all

647
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:10,990
along because you know, it didn't. No one was. No one knew and

648
00:40:10,990 --> 00:40:14,670
it didn't go. It's like it went viral when someone scattered their city

649
00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:18,430
case. Wait, that's just the first we heard about it. Someone commenting and asking

650
00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:22,110
us. But no one really didn't spark anything for everyone to go check

651
00:40:22,750 --> 00:40:26,550
until the record was announced a year later. And then you got the artwork.

652
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:30,040
When you're the actual CD booklet. It was this fold out spread

653
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,120
of. Of like a landscape and they. And they fit one above the other

654
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,960
with the landscape going like this together. That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh

655
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,440
I love that. Yeah, yeah. It was cool. It was a cool. It was a

656
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,080
such a fun project. Oh but okay.

657
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,760
Ark was the one where you did the like the reimagined songs right. With Ark

658
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,360
prevails. But that was something that people had to figure out, right?

659
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,850
Yeah. Ark. I can't remember what we did with Ark to be honest clue wise.

660
00:40:56,850 --> 00:41:00,570
But that was us heading into to what we felt was. Was the

661
00:41:00,570 --> 00:41:04,330
importance of water, the element of water. So we

662
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:07,730
just went there with like we are on water planet and you know, like

663
00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:11,170
basically blue gold, like water is more precious than gold.

664
00:41:11,730 --> 00:41:15,570
And so that, that was this whole other journey

665
00:41:15,570 --> 00:41:18,290
of, of, you know, how can we affect

666
00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:23,210
and create a better planet. So I can't remember the clues in terms of

667
00:41:23,210 --> 00:41:26,930
the CD as such, but it just felt, it felt bigger and more as

668
00:41:26,930 --> 00:41:30,330
a maturing that started to happen. Instead of doing signings, we were doing, you know,

669
00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:34,130
cleanups on beaches. We'd have 50, you know, 50 of

670
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:37,650
our closest fans and Seattle, Melbourne,

671
00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:40,890
Christchurch in New Zealand. Like it was all these different places and we meet and

672
00:41:40,890 --> 00:41:44,290
we don't get bags and we just clean a whole beach for a couple hours.

673
00:41:44,290 --> 00:41:47,730
And we'd have like just piles and piles of trash. We would find doors and

674
00:41:47,730 --> 00:41:51,570
chairs and pool toys and you know, sometimes a thousand cigarette butts. We had

675
00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:55,190
a count one time someone. And we have photos of all this stuff and get

676
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:59,030
a big, you know, big photo together. And it was just like really cool meeting

677
00:41:59,030 --> 00:42:02,150
on that level of, of like it's not. I'm at this table and there's a

678
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:05,110
pen and you know, like it's. There was no. It didn't feel

679
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:08,710
as stagey pedestally.

680
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:13,550
Sometimes those environments create a situation where everyone's lined

681
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:17,350
up and this was just all of us together doing this stuff. I felt

682
00:42:17,350 --> 00:42:21,150
really good and like that was, that was a whole other unraveling

683
00:42:21,150 --> 00:42:24,850
of, of our. Yeah, I

684
00:42:24,850 --> 00:42:27,370
don't want to call, I don't like the word environmental but it was a, you

685
00:42:27,370 --> 00:42:31,170
know, a self awareness journey of what kind of do we

686
00:42:31,170 --> 00:42:34,930
have on stage if we're picking up pool toys on the

687
00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:38,650
beach that are washed up? We've got pool toys on stage and

688
00:42:38,650 --> 00:42:42,130
this, the dual cases that we inclusion are the ones that we're finding broken and

689
00:42:42,130 --> 00:42:45,690
cracked washed up on the beach. A couple of CDs were found. You know, it's

690
00:42:45,690 --> 00:42:49,490
like, oh wow. Like, okay, how do we reduce our

691
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:53,050
sort of consumption of plastic and do things in a, in a more

692
00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:56,610
sustainable way that isn't just like, you know, taking the fun out of it

693
00:42:56,930 --> 00:43:00,570
basically? Yeah. And because you're a pretty big ambassador for all that

694
00:43:00,570 --> 00:43:04,089
stuff, right? I mean you have. Well, it's more

695
00:43:04,089 --> 00:43:07,410
curious. Yeah, you can call an ambassador. Yeah, I'm just curious. Like

696
00:43:08,050 --> 00:43:10,850
I see it as a challenge and I see it as like

697
00:43:12,210 --> 00:43:15,870
a challenge that needs to be solved basically because I just can't

698
00:43:15,870 --> 00:43:19,350
keep going on the way it is. But I'm not like a

699
00:43:19,350 --> 00:43:23,030
extremist in that sense. I don't consider myself that. But I project as

700
00:43:23,110 --> 00:43:26,150
an artist would approach it. Like, I just feel like I don't know what the

701
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:29,670
hell I'm doing, but I just give it a go and I ask questions,

702
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:33,630
but I don't. I don't like to ever think I'm an expert other than this

703
00:43:33,630 --> 00:43:37,390
is what I've learned. That's it. And you're. But you're supportive of it, and

704
00:43:37,390 --> 00:43:41,030
you're. In your voice, your. Your support for it. Yeah, yeah.

705
00:43:41,350 --> 00:43:45,020
Which is rad, especially with the platform you. You guys have created for yourselves and

706
00:43:45,020 --> 00:43:48,660
stuff. Yeah, you're right. That's. That's technically definition of an

707
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:51,540
ambassador. Somehow the word ambassador feels so proper.

708
00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:57,060
Maybe we can think of another word. I don't know. I know what you mean.

709
00:43:57,060 --> 00:44:00,660
I know exactly what you mean, though. Yeah, it's. Yeah.

710
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:04,460
In support of. Yeah, yeah. Perpetuating

711
00:44:04,460 --> 00:44:08,300
that way of being. Yeah, I get it. Sure. With that. Well,

712
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:11,940
you did an album before the. This. This one's coming out, and I think you

713
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:15,550
released. Just via the Internet. You guys released a

714
00:44:15,550 --> 00:44:19,350
single for you, kind of dropped the single from the album, like,

715
00:44:19,350 --> 00:44:23,190
on March 17, which, you know, worldwide suicide, which is

716
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:26,790
kind of like when everything in the world

717
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:30,550
really. I think it was here, like, March 17, 2020, was

718
00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:34,270
when, like, the world really stopped. Right? Yeah, man. Yeah,

719
00:44:34,270 --> 00:44:37,750
yeah, yeah. The timing of that record was not

720
00:44:37,830 --> 00:44:41,340
like, we. Yeah, we written and

721
00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:45,180
recorded that. We'd finished it six months prior, and

722
00:44:45,180 --> 00:44:48,660
we'd been writing it a year before that. And all of the

723
00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:52,500
songs, once we. You know, once you've got this body of

724
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:56,140
work, it's like, for this record, we knew that we were heading into the fire

725
00:44:56,140 --> 00:44:59,940
element because it's the only element left unchecked. And as we're recording

726
00:44:59,940 --> 00:45:03,460
the record, Australia has its biggest bushfires

727
00:45:03,940 --> 00:45:07,620
ever recorded. That was insane. And we had, like, the

728
00:45:07,620 --> 00:45:11,460
size of. I was Belgium or one of the European countries. A lot

729
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:15,300
of land, essentially, like, you know, the size of a

730
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:19,100
country, not a big European country, was the land that got torched

731
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:22,700
and we lost so many animals. And I'm looking at photos and videos of,

732
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:26,100
you know, the neighborhoods that I grew up in. You can see, like, the whole

733
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:29,860
sky red, and it's, like, on fire. And you're like, oh, my God, like, the

734
00:45:29,860 --> 00:45:33,180
world is literally ending back home, and we're writing a record of that fire.

735
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:37,610
And so it was scary and kind of, like,

736
00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:42,410
appropriate of what we were doing to put into our art.

737
00:45:42,410 --> 00:45:45,850
So worldwide suicide was written in a day and a feeling of like.

738
00:45:46,330 --> 00:45:49,530
Like, what are we doing? How we are? We're exacerbating all of these

739
00:45:50,170 --> 00:45:53,730
These issues that you know, like forest cement to

740
00:45:53,730 --> 00:45:57,490
burn naturally. But we, we don't let them burn because

741
00:45:57,490 --> 00:46:01,320
obviously we've got houses and you know, state like,

742
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,640
you know, all of the reasons in the indigenous was so good at knowing when

743
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,160
to burn and when to allow it to burn. So you've got a basically big

744
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,640
tinder bundle ready to go up and you get a strike of lightning or. Or

745
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,960
any arsenal, you know, ask for the arsonist

746
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,920
and boom, it goes up. So it's just this whole

747
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,600
theme of like what are we doing to ourselves in the planet. And they're so

748
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,290
interlinked the health of everything. So we

749
00:46:28,290 --> 00:46:31,730
planned worldwide suicide to come out on this date, you know, March 17th.

750
00:46:32,050 --> 00:46:34,970
We looked at the record as a body work. Okay. It feels like end of

751
00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:38,650
days, so to speak. It's not be doom and gloom about it because we're

752
00:46:38,650 --> 00:46:42,410
not. But it's Kali Yuga, which was prophesied by the Hindu

753
00:46:42,410 --> 00:46:46,050
ancients thousands and thousands of years ago, which would be like this coming

754
00:46:46,210 --> 00:46:49,930
to a head of everything where we would like, you know, no longer

755
00:46:49,930 --> 00:46:53,540
worship gods in the spirit, but we'd worship gods of the

756
00:46:53,540 --> 00:46:57,300
flesh. Like it's Brad Pitt and Angelina and who's having the

757
00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:00,700
next, you know, super twins or whatever. Yeah, right, right. You know,

758
00:47:02,380 --> 00:47:05,860
so it feels like that that's called. You guys felt so

759
00:47:05,860 --> 00:47:08,540
appropriate. We had everything planned and then.

760
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:13,380
Yeah. Like the time even on. On the front cover. Like she's

761
00:47:13,380 --> 00:47:16,380
even got a. She's even holding one of her hands,

762
00:47:17,260 --> 00:47:20,900
a cell phone in other hands holding like the needle, like the

763
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:24,730
injection needle. Referring to modern medicines and stuff.

764
00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:28,410
And. And that became one of the biggest topics for the next two years

765
00:47:28,650 --> 00:47:31,770
and, and debates of you know, like oh, vaccine getting

766
00:47:31,770 --> 00:47:35,610
vaccinated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just like. So it was just like

767
00:47:36,330 --> 00:47:40,090
it was just all coming to us to the surface. So while that.

768
00:47:40,090 --> 00:47:43,610
That was already. Yeah. And already already something that you guys had pre

769
00:47:43,610 --> 00:47:47,330
planned out. And then it just kind of fell in line with everything that was

770
00:47:47,330 --> 00:47:51,170
already to be to. To to happen. Right. I mean

771
00:47:51,170 --> 00:47:54,770
in the beginning everyone. It was the vaccine wasn't

772
00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:58,330
a. It wasn't people. It wasn't an argument. And then it became

773
00:47:58,410 --> 00:48:02,090
like this, you know, this whole. Yeah. Thing later. I mean

774
00:48:02,090 --> 00:48:05,930
that kind of foreshadow that. Yeah. Yeah. All

775
00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:09,690
that that happened. I mean and. And what's unfortunate is

776
00:48:09,690 --> 00:48:13,290
like, you know, when you reminded me of the fires in Australia,

777
00:48:13,370 --> 00:48:16,390
that was something that was like. It almost became.

778
00:48:17,110 --> 00:48:20,630
It got pushed down at least here in America because of all the other things,

779
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:24,350
you know, the police brutality and the, you know, you know,

780
00:48:24,350 --> 00:48:28,190
the vaccines and covet and people not being able to work and it just

781
00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:31,790
like all these things just kind of just all happened at one time and it

782
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:35,510
got. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And her.

783
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:38,470
Not to get too into the album, but yeah, she had the gun in other

784
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:42,150
hand, cash on the other hand. Yeah, like. Like there was food

785
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:45,550
also. Like how we look, you know, how we. How we producing food and how

786
00:48:45,550 --> 00:48:49,120
we're looking at the food. Food was like, yeah, but like, it's not trying to

787
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,560
be prophetic because that's really what's happening on the planet. It's just

788
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,840
what that time did when it all came to a head is all of it

789
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,640
just like, came up at once and we're just like overwhelmed.

790
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,720
Right. It all just kind of happened. And you just had this album covered in

791
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:05,920
this album that was covering all these things that was like, whoa, yeah.

792
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:10,400
Yes. So, you know, when. When sort of proposed.

793
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,980
When it was sort of proposed to us or even thought about should we delay

794
00:49:14,980 --> 00:49:18,180
the album? It was like, no, it's just meant to come out. Like, the timing

795
00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:21,900
of it. It's. It's of the time. Like, let's not wait two years

796
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:24,420
so that we can. We didn't know how long it was going to last, but

797
00:49:24,420 --> 00:49:28,020
let's not wait so that we can throw off and surprise the world. It felt

798
00:49:28,020 --> 00:49:31,020
almost like we do be doing the art a disservice to sit on it,

799
00:49:32,540 --> 00:49:35,980
you know, like, that could have played out differently. I was thinking about what would

800
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:38,980
happen if we sat on it and just, like, released it right when touring came

801
00:49:38,980 --> 00:49:42,630
back, you know, like. Yeah, I think the effect that

802
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:46,230
had and like the meaning and everything kind of really was there,

803
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:50,990
you know, it was perfect time. Yeah. That put it out instead of waiting. Because

804
00:49:50,990 --> 00:49:54,110
a lot of artists did that. They're like, oh, you know, I recorded this album

805
00:49:54,110 --> 00:49:57,630
in 2019, but I didn't put it out until 20, late 21 or

806
00:49:57,630 --> 00:50:01,190
22, because what was I gonna do with it? No one, you know.

807
00:50:02,310 --> 00:50:06,030
Yeah, you can't capitalize. Yeah, yeah. And I spent. You spent all this time and

808
00:50:06,030 --> 00:50:09,300
money on it. And so there was a bit of, like, that hurt in to

809
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:12,900
a degree. It's like we put all this energy into something that just, you know,

810
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:16,420
was. Was a thing for a week and then there's a

811
00:50:16,420 --> 00:50:20,140
shooting or like, you know, all these other fallen things that just

812
00:50:20,140 --> 00:50:23,860
demand your attention and everything was just getting swallowed, like, so

813
00:50:23,860 --> 00:50:27,700
quickly in like, the. The belly of society. It's like.

814
00:50:27,780 --> 00:50:31,220
And then like, who's getting canceled? And then like, we need to address

815
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:34,910
this absolute, you know, horrific villain

816
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:38,550
that's been doing all these things behind enclosed doors. And it was just

817
00:50:38,550 --> 00:50:41,830
relentless. Yeah. A period to

818
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:45,750
sort of endure and quite fascinating from a case study, but to be in it

819
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:49,470
was another story. And in that space we

820
00:50:49,470 --> 00:50:53,270
got to like, look at our self reflection. And that's where this

821
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:56,950
documentary that, that we did and create a soundtrack for it,

822
00:50:57,270 --> 00:51:01,030
which came out in 2022. So we had two years to work on it. And

823
00:51:01,030 --> 00:51:04,860
that was a pandemic project. Was that Green is the New

824
00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:08,620
Black? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that was

825
00:51:09,020 --> 00:51:12,060
like what was gonna. It was always about. Was always gonna be at the making

826
00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:15,860
of that record. K. And how we did it in. In a sustainable

827
00:51:15,860 --> 00:51:18,700
way. But it was, you know, it was originally intended to be like a five

828
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:20,540
minute explainer

829
00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:25,420
just to just so people understood why we did what we were doing.

830
00:51:26,140 --> 00:51:29,860
And then it was like, this is way more than five minutes

831
00:51:29,860 --> 00:51:33,180
of what's happening here. And we've actually got a. There's actually a story here because

832
00:51:33,180 --> 00:51:37,020
there's so much discovery. So we just went deeper and deeper and deeper, just capturing,

833
00:51:37,020 --> 00:51:40,100
capturing, capturing. Next minute we've got a, you know, a 90 minute,

834
00:51:40,980 --> 00:51:44,740
90 minute film. And like, we need music for it because

835
00:51:44,980 --> 00:51:48,660
you can't just go and buy music and then you've got these copyright issues.

836
00:51:48,660 --> 00:51:52,500
So Ben and Evan at guitar, so they're making music appropriate

837
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:56,250
to the parts and soundtrack and Docker, and we

838
00:51:56,250 --> 00:51:59,970
just slipping it to a bunch of film festivals and it, it did really well.

839
00:52:00,130 --> 00:52:03,570
And we've got a. What's it called? Like, you've got

840
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:07,370
the Grammys and in Australia with the arias and it got an aria

841
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:11,090
nomination for the soundtrack. And next minute were the arias for this soundtrack

842
00:52:11,090 --> 00:52:14,890
that was like not even metal. It was just this, you know, atmospheric kind of

843
00:52:14,890 --> 00:52:18,490
soundtrack. So it really opened up different

844
00:52:18,490 --> 00:52:21,690
doors. Not so much for the metal scene, because we'd already been a part of

845
00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:25,410
that, but also all the mainstream folk artists and

846
00:52:25,410 --> 00:52:29,210
stuff are calling me up saying like, you know, how do we. Like,

847
00:52:29,210 --> 00:52:32,650
what merchandise? How are you switching, like getting rid of polyester and.

848
00:52:32,970 --> 00:52:36,210
And cotton and you know, like, what are you doing? And I'm like, okay, well,

849
00:52:36,210 --> 00:52:39,850
I don't know, man. But like, this is just what I've learned. Yeah,

850
00:52:39,850 --> 00:52:43,650
yeah. Back to the thing where you're just. Yeah, yeah, you're. You're

851
00:52:43,650 --> 00:52:47,290
doing something. You have this platform. People are paying attention now and you're. Like,

852
00:52:47,370 --> 00:52:50,580
yeah, this could be just kind of how we do it. Yeah.

853
00:52:51,140 --> 00:52:54,780
I love it, man. And then you even had your. Your.

854
00:52:54,780 --> 00:52:58,060
Your bonus stat on that record as well. That must have been cool to have,

855
00:52:58,060 --> 00:53:01,860
you know. Didn't he sing on one of the songs? Yes, yes.

856
00:53:01,860 --> 00:53:05,620
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that like, you know, asking him,

857
00:53:05,620 --> 00:53:08,900
hey. Or. I mean, and I didn't even really ask you about the fact

858
00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:12,900
that, you know, he. He had accomplished all these things

859
00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:16,830
as an artist and a vocalist. I mean, he must have been

860
00:53:16,830 --> 00:53:20,590
pretty proud. And did he provide you any, like, insight or, like,

861
00:53:20,590 --> 00:53:24,310
mentorship when it came to your band already? Kind of.

862
00:53:24,310 --> 00:53:27,710
Just not really. Okay. Yeah, not really.

863
00:53:27,710 --> 00:53:31,229
He's. He's so chill and, like, he was proud. He's

864
00:53:31,229 --> 00:53:34,350
proud in that sense, but, like, it doesn't tell me. It never tells. Told me

865
00:53:34,350 --> 00:53:37,910
how to do anything. Of course, if I asked him to do something, he would

866
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:41,500
tell me, but he was never the business sense of the band or. Or how

867
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:44,980
to do T shirts this way. He was just like, here's the mic. I'm gonna

868
00:53:44,980 --> 00:53:48,300
say what I say and feel what I feel. And someone else handled that in

869
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:51,300
the band. So. Yeah.

870
00:53:51,620 --> 00:53:55,340
Yeah. I don't have any specific memory or time other than telling

871
00:53:55,340 --> 00:53:59,140
me, like, don't hurt yourself when you scream and, like, you know, ease into

872
00:53:59,140 --> 00:54:02,900
it and those sorts of tips. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then ask

873
00:54:02,900 --> 00:54:05,980
you. He must have been pretty touched if you. When you asked him to sing

874
00:54:05,980 --> 00:54:09,800
on Iron Days. Yeah. We had no

875
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,240
studio to go to at the time to record it in my bedroom. And there's

876
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:17,080
actually footage in the documentary of Randy, like, screaming

877
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,160
in the bedroom and filming on the bed. And, like, my guitar is sitting on

878
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,640
my desk and recording it, and it does a great

879
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,920
transition into, like, him tracking to, like, the song and the part.

880
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,440
And he's got a really good voice. Like,

881
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:34,040
I would love, like, hearing his voice in modern

882
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:38,190
sounding, like stuff. It sounds like, you know, it's high

883
00:54:38,190 --> 00:54:41,670
pitch. It's almost like knock loose to all them warriors from California.

884
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:45,430
Yeah, that, like, it's intense. That's really good. It's really

885
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:49,190
good. So I love his voice. You should do a side project with

886
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:52,230
them. That'd be sick. Totally. Just

887
00:54:52,550 --> 00:54:55,430
pacing the stage to situ screaming. He's gone.

888
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:59,550
Yeah, well, so you. I mean, with that last

889
00:54:59,550 --> 00:55:02,980
album, you kind of wrapped up. You said the elements, you know, with Fire. And

890
00:55:02,980 --> 00:55:06,500
then was that like going into this next album and was.

891
00:55:07,220 --> 00:55:10,900
Did you, like, what was it at that point?

892
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:14,260
Were you. Did. You know, it was time to kind of Revisit those other 11

893
00:55:14,740 --> 00:55:18,500
cards? Yeah, I felt like, it's something I want to do

894
00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:23,380
before the band, you know, calls it a day. If we do at some point,

895
00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:27,860
last getting on. I don't know how many records you don't know, especially the

896
00:55:27,860 --> 00:55:31,660
Pandemic and, you know, touring being sort of like, is it on?

897
00:55:31,660 --> 00:55:35,380
Is it off? So with this opportunity to make another record was

898
00:55:35,380 --> 00:55:38,980
very much like, guys, it's time to revisit this and.

899
00:55:38,980 --> 00:55:41,060
And feel complete about it.

900
00:55:42,819 --> 00:55:46,420
So. So that's. Yeah, it came from a really. Yeah, like,

901
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:49,940
this is right. Like, I want to do this and.

902
00:55:51,220 --> 00:55:54,820
And, you know, it just was. There was conversation around, like, let's not

903
00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:57,740
force it and then like, stitch ourselves up when we could be doing some brand

904
00:55:57,740 --> 00:56:01,340
new. Which is always like a fear of

905
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:05,100
doing a throwback with it appearing old. But

906
00:56:05,820 --> 00:56:09,660
it just really suited the music and the story that needed to be told

907
00:56:10,460 --> 00:56:14,300
with the band taking this, like, I call it. And it's not

908
00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:18,060
a new. It's an evolved step forward in a big way. We've had a

909
00:56:18,060 --> 00:56:21,490
member, a critical member of the last four

910
00:56:21,490 --> 00:56:25,290
records is going on to be a father. And in

911
00:56:25,290 --> 00:56:29,050
that process, we were naturally going to become heavier because he

912
00:56:29,050 --> 00:56:32,850
was doing the clean singing. And so we already. We already decided we're

913
00:56:32,850 --> 00:56:36,610
doubling down on the heavy and doing, like, you know, what we do really

914
00:56:36,610 --> 00:56:40,290
well. But, like, how can we do it even better? And so this

915
00:56:40,770 --> 00:56:44,450
underworld deep dive, when you've got cards like the devil,

916
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:49,790
it just felt so appropriate to really, like, go there and have it be the

917
00:56:49,790 --> 00:56:53,550
flip side of the coin. It's no longer this joyful, joyful

918
00:56:53,550 --> 00:56:57,390
light, you know, the world's great big Grand Place

919
00:56:57,390 --> 00:57:01,190
at 21, which is very much like of the daylight. This is total

920
00:57:01,190 --> 00:57:04,950
midnight, you know? Yeah.

921
00:57:04,950 --> 00:57:08,550
Bewitching our record. Yeah. So did he record

922
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:12,230
or you're. You're talking about Kyle, right? He left the. He left

923
00:57:12,790 --> 00:57:16,630
Farewell. And did he record on the album with you all

924
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:19,030
or had he left before the album?

925
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:24,310
Yeah, he. He totally. Well, he'd left. He's always been.

926
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:28,150
He's still been a part of all the conversations and there. But he

927
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:31,910
had said, like, he had made it known. We had.

928
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:36,350
We had a camp out that we like to, like,

929
00:57:36,350 --> 00:57:39,190
check in. We had a camp out and we're sitting around the fire and it

930
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:42,670
was like, you know, he just shared like, this is where I'm at. And it

931
00:57:42,670 --> 00:57:45,110
wasn't like, hey, guys, I'm out. It was just, this is how I'm feeling. And

932
00:57:45,110 --> 00:57:48,910
we're like, we're supportive of what you need to do. And so he

933
00:57:48,910 --> 00:57:52,230
wasn't fully sure, like, this is happening, but he expressed. He's like,

934
00:57:52,550 --> 00:57:56,069
what was coming up. And so for the course of the year, we're, like, taking

935
00:57:56,070 --> 00:57:59,830
steps towards giving him what he needed without it being, like, this cut and dry

936
00:57:59,830 --> 00:58:02,870
thing. So we were writing a new record that was without him

937
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:08,580
and also, like, creating a song together that would be his last song,

938
00:58:08,580 --> 00:58:12,380
which is not on the record. It's his own thing. So, yeah,

939
00:58:12,380 --> 00:58:16,220
it's like a breakup process with a prolonged, like, you know, year or

940
00:58:16,220 --> 00:58:19,980
so to. To feel it out, to make sure it was right for him. Because

941
00:58:19,980 --> 00:58:23,820
if he'd been like. Actually went back in, we would have been like, all

942
00:58:23,820 --> 00:58:27,220
right. Like, yeah. It wouldn't have been aggressive. Like, yeah, yeah.

943
00:58:27,380 --> 00:58:30,940
Like, oh, well, you said you were leaving, so, you know, this

944
00:58:30,940 --> 00:58:34,620
guy's been with you for so long. And it wasn't like he's. Yeah. Personality thing

945
00:58:34,620 --> 00:58:38,460
or a huge fighter. It was just, you know, I'm. Yeah. You

946
00:58:38,460 --> 00:58:41,940
know, this is where my heart's at right now. And I got to. Yeah.

947
00:58:42,340 --> 00:58:46,100
So. But once we got to the studio and leading up to, you know, weeks,

948
00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:49,740
months before, at that point, we've got this many heavy songs. Like,

949
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:53,340
we were committed to this being a

950
00:58:53,340 --> 00:58:56,820
reality, you know? And did, you know, like,

951
00:58:57,300 --> 00:59:00,940
were the songs. Did you write the songs prior

952
00:59:00,940 --> 00:59:04,650
to, you know, putting them to a

953
00:59:04,650 --> 00:59:08,450
card? Or was it like, okay, we know we're going to go in with 11

954
00:59:08,450 --> 00:59:12,290
remaining tarot cards and Devil. We're gonna write

955
00:59:12,290 --> 00:59:16,090
a song for this? Or it's a bit of both. Okay. A bit

956
00:59:16,090 --> 00:59:19,650
of both. Probably lent towards knowing which cards are with which songs. Already

957
00:59:20,130 --> 00:59:23,890
there was a few ominous ones. Where is this song gonna

958
00:59:23,890 --> 00:59:26,930
make the record musically?

959
00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:31,700
And then before really diving into again, this song needs vocals to actually

960
00:59:31,700 --> 00:59:35,340
take it to, like, this level here. If we're communicating this song,

961
00:59:35,980 --> 00:59:39,620
this is the card that remains. So how can we

962
00:59:39,620 --> 00:59:43,219
be, like, integral to the essence of that

963
00:59:43,219 --> 00:59:46,060
card and bring the lyrics and the vocals to get it to that place?

964
00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:50,300
So there's a bit of puzzling out, especially in the last quarter,

965
00:59:50,780 --> 00:59:54,060
But I'd say three quarters of it, if not 70%, at least

966
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:58,470
super solid. Like Orphan, the Devil, like, that was. You know, you've got.

967
00:59:58,790 --> 01:00:02,470
You've got key markers, which we knew would be on the

968
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:06,310
record. Yeah, I love it. And I think it's

969
01:00:06,310 --> 01:00:09,870
so cool that you have implemented, like, the Tarot Cards into

970
01:00:09,870 --> 01:00:12,950
your, you know, your band and kind of like, what your mom

971
01:00:13,350 --> 01:00:16,870
picked up doing. And, like, I think it's so cool that, like, she

972
01:00:17,590 --> 01:00:21,160
did. Did she get like was. She thought that was

973
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,560
cool that you've kind of done that, like, you know, picked up what's something that

974
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,360
she had. Have. Has a passion for and you know,

975
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,000
for sure. Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I imagine any, any

976
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,720
parent we, you know, proud or encouraged

977
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,880
that parenting rubbed off in some way. And it's a,

978
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,040
it's a. It's a positive thing, I think, like tarot being a tool

979
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,110
to like to ask nothing more

980
01:00:47,110 --> 01:00:50,950
questions but to seek clarity and to understand more of

981
01:00:51,110 --> 01:00:53,750
the journeys that we're on, you know, in this human form.

982
01:00:56,230 --> 01:01:00,070
We did a lot of consulting like with her like, like this

983
01:01:00,070 --> 01:01:03,350
cards like this. So like can you just check over that? She'd consult

984
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:08,070
for both records, did heaps of consulting with that. So like it's not just

985
01:01:08,550 --> 01:01:12,250
our interpretation, like it always. It would be double checked off with, you

986
01:01:12,250 --> 01:01:15,010
know, we call it professional. The guy who's been doing this for

987
01:01:15,010 --> 01:01:18,690
25 years. You know, you're right. Right.

988
01:01:18,930 --> 01:01:22,650
Yeah, yeah. With. On your website, I'm just curious. You

989
01:01:22,650 --> 01:01:26,490
have the tarot card collector, right? What, like, can you kind of explain that

990
01:01:26,490 --> 01:01:29,970
a little bit? Yeah, sure. It's a website with 11

991
01:01:29,970 --> 01:01:33,570
cards. Each week a new card gets unveiled

992
01:01:33,650 --> 01:01:37,490
and you can choose to flip over the card and underneath it it's got

993
01:01:38,980 --> 01:01:42,740
either a clue, a teaser, or a game which tells you more

994
01:01:42,740 --> 01:01:46,580
about that particular song attached to that particular card.

995
01:01:47,620 --> 01:01:51,300
And then once you collect, like, you know, once we get to full 11 weeks,

996
01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:54,772
when the record comes out, which would be July

997
01:01:54,868 --> 01:01:58,580
12, you will. You have to have

998
01:01:58,820 --> 01:02:02,540
turned over and engage with all of the cards. There's actually going to be

999
01:02:02,540 --> 01:02:06,270
something that you'll get. I'm not going to say. Right, right. So it's

1000
01:02:06,270 --> 01:02:10,110
so it's like that's the collecting heart of it. Yeah. It

1001
01:02:10,110 --> 01:02:13,950
was just this neat idea that me and Luke,

1002
01:02:14,190 --> 01:02:17,830
our actual ex manager, had. We still

1003
01:02:17,830 --> 01:02:20,830
worked together this entire time. He's like, he's these.

1004
01:02:21,470 --> 01:02:24,830
Consult, consult and consultant and a friend.

1005
01:02:25,070 --> 01:02:27,790
So we've been working on this record together and

1006
01:02:29,550 --> 01:02:33,210
yeah, we just had this idea of how can we make a website like a

1007
01:02:33,210 --> 01:02:36,770
tarot card spread that you know, you could

1008
01:02:36,770 --> 01:02:40,250
revisit at any point. Like some people might not even discover there's a website

1009
01:02:40,570 --> 01:02:43,410
until a week before the record's out. And they can still go back and like

1010
01:02:43,410 --> 01:02:46,330
turn all the cars over and be like, oh, cool. Okay. That makes, you know.

1011
01:02:46,810 --> 01:02:50,610
But there's lots of clues for those people that want to find more

1012
01:02:50,610 --> 01:02:53,930
about the record and how it was made. That's all baked into those cards.

1013
01:02:54,330 --> 01:02:57,850
So. Yeah. Incarnation.inheartwake.com so

1014
01:02:57,930 --> 01:03:01,760
it's basically the home for our album website. Yeah. Yeah. I love

1015
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,600
that, man. I love how you guys do all those cool little.

1016
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,120
You know, you. You have the, like, not Easter

1017
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,880
eggs, but, like, you know, you kind of hide these little things within. Within

1018
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,720
your artwork and. And to. To have not only great

1019
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:20,520
music and a great album and everything that comes with it, but to.

1020
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:24,440
To even take it to the next step with this whole other creative side

1021
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,610
that is so unique. And not anyone

1022
01:03:27,610 --> 01:03:31,330
I've talked to is doing anything like that. I think that's so rad.

1023
01:03:31,330 --> 01:03:35,050
Cool. Thanks, man. That's nice to hear that. Yeah. I just. I

1024
01:03:35,050 --> 01:03:38,450
realized, you know, the music isn't just enough, but like,

1025
01:03:39,410 --> 01:03:43,170
to feeling full as an artist, there's so much more that.

1026
01:03:43,330 --> 01:03:47,090
That we want to do and share. Like, it's not. And it's not

1027
01:03:47,090 --> 01:03:50,890
for an outcome that we desire, but clearly, like, you know, we

1028
01:03:50,890 --> 01:03:54,340
want to unpack these things and find a way to. To communicate these things to

1029
01:03:54,340 --> 01:03:58,140
the people that care. And doing in a creative way makes the music that

1030
01:03:58,140 --> 01:04:01,740
much more enjoyable. You know, it's layered. It's

1031
01:04:01,740 --> 01:04:05,340
definitely a layered thing. And. And it's fun. It's ultimately a lot of fun.

1032
01:04:05,340 --> 01:04:08,700
Yeah. And you're doing a big tour,

1033
01:04:08,940 --> 01:04:12,620
what, September? And that's Kyle's last

1034
01:04:12,860 --> 01:04:16,340
tour with the band too. Exactly. Yeah. That'll probably be an

1035
01:04:16,340 --> 01:04:19,750
emotional tour, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah,

1036
01:04:19,830 --> 01:04:23,590
yeah. It's still not quite real. Like, it won't be real

1037
01:04:23,590 --> 01:04:26,190
tour on the stage and looking at him and like, this is the last time

1038
01:04:26,190 --> 01:04:28,910
you're gonna be happy, dude. You know that. I think. I think we're all kind

1039
01:04:28,910 --> 01:04:32,710
of. We're aware of it, that we're not actually like, feeling

1040
01:04:32,710 --> 01:04:36,470
what that's going to feel like yet because it's going to be really odd

1041
01:04:36,630 --> 01:04:40,230
and. And exciting, but also daunting, especially

1042
01:04:40,230 --> 01:04:43,790
for him more than us, because we have to keep getting up there. But for

1043
01:04:43,790 --> 01:04:47,380
him, it's his last time, so he went. He really wanted

1044
01:04:47,380 --> 01:04:50,900
that. So it's good. Good. Last chance.

1045
01:04:51,460 --> 01:04:55,180
Did you guys choose the last date for a particular reason or

1046
01:04:55,180 --> 01:04:58,780
just kind of happened that way? It happened that

1047
01:04:58,780 --> 01:05:02,140
way. Yeah. When it's the last date. You mean with the last show Lies? Is

1048
01:05:02,140 --> 01:05:05,300
that what you're saying? Yeah. Or. Well, I mean, last show.

1049
01:05:05,860 --> 01:05:09,580
It's a show. It's the show in Perth. Right. That's the last shower. I

1050
01:05:09,580 --> 01:05:13,420
didn't know if it was like something special to him or if you couldn't figure

1051
01:05:13,420 --> 01:05:16,210
out to do it that. Way it would have. Would have been more ideal for

1052
01:05:16,210 --> 01:05:20,050
it to end in Brisbane, closer to home. Okay. You know,

1053
01:05:20,050 --> 01:05:23,290
ideally. But it's just how the weekend. How what was available panned out.

1054
01:05:23,690 --> 01:05:27,410
Right, right, right. But maybe that would also be too loaded too to have

1055
01:05:27,410 --> 01:05:30,690
it all be in the home. Then maybe it's good that we just can have

1056
01:05:30,690 --> 01:05:34,410
it be, you know, away. And then celebrate

1057
01:05:34,410 --> 01:05:38,010
all together and you know. All right, well, see at home.

1058
01:05:38,250 --> 01:05:41,290
You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly.

1059
01:05:42,620 --> 01:05:46,340
Yeah. Yeah. We've got. And I think it gets announced tomorrow,

1060
01:05:46,340 --> 01:05:50,060
which will be now for whenever this gets released. Yeah,

1061
01:05:50,060 --> 01:05:53,660
it'll be out but it's got. The tour's got pale face

1062
01:05:53,740 --> 01:05:57,180
with King810 and a band called Gravemind on the.

1063
01:05:57,340 --> 01:06:01,060
On the lineup. So it's real. It's very heavy lineup of the

1064
01:06:01,060 --> 01:06:03,820
tour which is appropriate to the record. Yeah,

1065
01:06:04,860 --> 01:06:08,510
yeah, yeah. Very very. Which is. I think people aren't going to be used

1066
01:06:08,510 --> 01:06:12,150
to. Going to take a bit of adjusting because they're used to like, you

1067
01:06:12,150 --> 01:06:15,190
know, previous bands, Bear Tooth, We Came As Romans, like

1068
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:20,470
just more. Let's call it Metal Core, you know, which is great,

1069
01:06:21,350 --> 01:06:24,710
that singing chorus, you know, but this is not that. This is

1070
01:06:25,110 --> 01:06:28,790
actually been to like Death Core hardcore world now. Yeah.

1071
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:32,990
There's not those. Yeah more melodic choruses. It's going to just be a lot

1072
01:06:32,990 --> 01:06:36,830
heavier. At least. At least for the time being is what's right. So we're following

1073
01:06:36,830 --> 01:06:40,510
that. Love it. Well, I appreciate your time, Jake. Thank you, man,

1074
01:06:40,510 --> 01:06:43,910
so much for. For doing this. You have such a fascinating story and

1075
01:06:44,870 --> 01:06:48,550
the creativity with the band and everything else you guys are doing. Thanks.

1076
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:52,470
So awesome. I do have one more question for

1077
01:06:52,790 --> 01:06:56,270
you. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring

1078
01:06:56,270 --> 01:07:00,070
artists. Just make sure it's coming from the like if it's

1079
01:07:00,070 --> 01:07:03,830
coming from a good. A good place and it gets. It can get you

1080
01:07:03,830 --> 01:07:07,390
up a bit out of bed at five in the morning for it then

1081
01:07:07,390 --> 01:07:10,670
like keep pursuing that. I believe those are the.

1082
01:07:10,990 --> 01:07:14,670
The right reasons for continue to show up. And if you continue

1083
01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:18,590
to keep showing up with that in mind, it gets me out of bed

1084
01:07:18,590 --> 01:07:21,790
and it's coming from a really real place and there's something to be said

1085
01:07:22,190 --> 01:07:25,150
then it'll just. It'll carve through that.

1086
01:07:25,870 --> 01:07:29,670
That. That canyon or that wall that seems impossible with all that's out

1087
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:33,220
there and it'll make a difference on the other side.

1088
01:07:33,220 --> 01:07:35,340
It'll find a way. I really believe that.

1089
01:07:55,830 --> 01:07:57,830
Back. Bring it back.