BiB: Gavin Turek – “I Was Ready to Quit—Now I’m All In”: The Making of Her Boldest Album

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What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast

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where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal

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stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode,

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we had a chance to catch up with Gavin Turek over

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Zoom Video. It was over three years ago since

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we had Gavin Turek on the podcast. Last time she was on,

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we chatted about Madame Gold. The album hadn't even came out

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yet at the time we chatted. So it was really cool to kind of pick

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up where we left off with Madame Gold and hear what

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Gavin's been up to since then. She talks a lot about

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this new album and kind of taking a break between

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Madam Gold and this new album and how that really

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helped her find herself again and find her love for the music.

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So we hear all about the new album that Gavin just released called

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Diva of the People. And you can watch our interview with Gavin on

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our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing.

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If you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook, follow us

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podcasts would be incredible. If you follow us there as well

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your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcast, we're. Wherever you listen

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to podcasts, we're Bringing. It Backwards with Gavin

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Turek.

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Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backward.

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Bringing it backward. Hi, Gavin. How are you?

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I'm good. How are you? I am great. Thank you so much for doing

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this. Yeah, of course. Well, it's great to see

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you. I had you on this like three years ago. I remember. Yeah, I

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remember. I was in New York. Yeah, it's crazy. It's been that long. I

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couldn't believe it when I was like, there's no way it's been three.

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Three years. But it was literally in September of 21.

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Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's. It's weird. Time just goes

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by really fast. Yeah. I think Madam Gold had

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maybe not came. It was about to come out. I think at the time.

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Oh, really? It hadn't come out yet. I don't. Yeah, I think we were talking

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about it. It was about to come out. Or maybe it was. It came out

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when we released it. I can't remember. But yeah, that was a while ago.

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So long ago. Yeah, that was. It feels

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like so much life has happened to

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me. That's awesome. Because I'm excited to hear all about it.

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That's what I want to kind of catch up on and see what's been going

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on over the last few. Totally.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we. Usually it's about you and your journey in music,

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but we kind of already got your story up until 21

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last time we spoke. But maybe we can just recap real quick, just

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a little bit, and then get into this, this new

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album. Awesome. So you were born and raised in la.

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Yeah. Which is. We were talking about how it's

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not many of us. I mean, I was born and raised in San Diego, but

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la, same thing. Not. Not a lot of people are actually

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from Southern California.

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Exactly. Yeah. We're so lucky. We're

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really lucky. And you grew up, you grew up kind of around the industry,

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right? Mom is a singer and. Yeah,

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mom's an actor and singer.

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Dad is not in the industry technically, but

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he's a musician, so he did. Piano player, right?

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Yeah, yeah, piano. And

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yeah, definitely grew up with the industry.

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Like in my kind of everyday life and experience

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in a way that probably isn't typical, but actually so typical

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for a lot of LA kids. I think so. Yeah,

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definitely, like normalized

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to me. Sure. All the, all the

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dysfunction, all the craziness.

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Yeah, it was definitely just like everyday,

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everyday life for me. That's cool. Yeah, you did,

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you went to an art school and everything, right? I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

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went to arts high school. Yeah, Arts high school, which

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is similar to what people know as like the Fame High school

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in New York. Oh, really? Yeah,

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yeah. So that's our sister high school. And so our, our

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whole format is modeled exactly the same. Like we have

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basically the same model and same format. Yeah. That's really interesting. I

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didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Not a lot of people know that,

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but it's a great, It's a great school. It still exists.

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It's super small and I think they're struggling probably

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financially just to keep it up and to keep the quality. But

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yeah, it was, it was so incredible and like,

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very, very, very special because it kind of set

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me on this path of

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learning to work hard and kind of sacrifice for your art

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at such a young age. Like, I was getting up at. I probably told you

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this. I was getting up at four in the morning every morning to go to

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school. Oh, no, you didn't. You didn't tell me that. Yeah, to

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commute two hours there, two hours back.

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Yeah. So it. But that was normalized again because

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that's what most of the kids were doing. And,

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and it was so ingrained in me, like this is worth

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it. This is worth the uncomfortability and like

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worth worth the time and the effort

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because I get to do my art. So. Yeah, that was

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instilled in me. Yeah. You were going as a dance

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major, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And how were

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your parents driving you to school? Two hours out and two hours

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back? Or is there a bus system? Like how. How do you. Yeah, it

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was, it was wild. So bas. I would, I would leave

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my house. At what time would I. So I guess I would wake

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up at 4:30. I would leave my house at 5:30 to drive to the

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train and then. Oh wow, you would take the train?

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Yeah, I would catch the train at 6 and then we would get

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to Union station in downtown LA around like

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7:15, 7:30. And then all the kids that went to Union

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Station would then take a bus to. To our campus.

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Yes. Oh my God. School would start at 8 o', clock. So.

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Yeah, that is wild. And then you'd have to take the bus home. I mean,

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take the train, take the. Whole thing, do the whole thing again home. Oh man.

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Were there a lot of kids that like, I mean. Oh, I guess you're in

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high school, that's that age, but still, I mean, 14, 15.

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To be able to do that trek by yourself. Were there a lot of

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kids around the area? Like did you meet your friends like on the train and

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then. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't as scary as it

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sounds. Like we were super young. But a lot of kids

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were doing it. Like most, most of the kids were being

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bused or trained in from all over the county. So that's why it's such a

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special school because. Because it was

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art focus. You had to audition to get in. And then

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it wasn't based on anything but your talent. So a

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lot of kids that were from, for example, like

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Beverly Hills, like so rich kids and then kids from,

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you know, Compton, like everybody was. It was such a melting

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pot. I was all the way from, you know, Santa Clarita, but it was such

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a melting pot and it didn't really matter where you came

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from, where your background, what your background was, if you were

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wealthy, if you were not, you know, like we were all in there

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together. And even when it

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came to like popularity and stuff, it was, it was

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based on talent. Like if you were talented, you

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like the most would be the most popular. Most popular person.

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Yeah, it was all based on, on talent. Yeah, it was

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really, really interesting school it was so. It was amazing.

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Yeah. And especially with the fact that you mentioned, like, Beverly Hills,

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like, you couldn't buy your way in. It wasn't like. No. Oh, yeah.

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Like, oh, well, my mom is, you know, the executive

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producer at Paramount or whatever, so we're gonna buy our way in. But if

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you didn't have the talent, it was. Sure there was. I'm sure there was

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that going on. Like, that's. I don't know. That's probably.

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Well, maybe if you aren't good, you weren't gonna be popular. Right, right. It was

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like. No. Yeah. Among, like, in terms of, like,

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social, cultural, like, amongst

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the. The kids. Yeah, yeah. It was all about talent. All.

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That's crazy. Yeah. So did you end up going to college for dance

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and stuff, too, or. No, no, technically, I did not.

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I went to college for. I

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was a hu. I was under the humanities department, but I created my own major,

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so I incorporated dance and the arts. But it was.

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Yeah, I was kind of doing a mixture of

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religious studies, art history, and then performing arts. Oh,

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okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't know because it sounds like. I mean, that was

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a big part of your. Yeah. Obviously your life. You know, I. I

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danced all throughout college, but I. I wasn't majoring in it. Yeah. So,

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okay. With your songwriting, though, that didn't come. I mean, you. You.

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You told me in the first interview that you wrote your first song at, like,

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6 years old. I mean, so it was always kind of a part of you

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and melodies and. Yeah, but it wasn't until you were

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in college that you really kind of started to focus on

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songwriting, correct? Yeah, yeah. I.

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I always wrote. I always thought that was, like, the most

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organic, natural thing you can do. Just. I didn't

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even think about. I always. I always wrote

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songs. But, yeah, when I got into college,

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and I don't even know what it was, but it was.

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I guess I just had more time alone to

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just mess around on a computer, because I actually had a

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computer. And. Yeah, I guess

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producing is what made it a little bit more

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real for me. And. And I started taking a little bit more

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seriously, like, starting to produce, and then I was like, oh,

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I can make a whole song by myself. Like, this is really

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cool. So. Yeah. Yeah. And then you kind of made a name for yourself,

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like, that way through, what, MySpace, right? Yeah. Yeah.

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I don't know if I want to say a name for myself. Well, I mean,

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you've met people that really like, started to. Yeah,

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yeah. That helps that. Well, tokimon said like, you had the two. Two

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of the biggest records on the. That first. That one EP

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that she put out. Like. Yeah, that's pretty. I think

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wild. Yeah. Two of her most popular songs. It is.

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Whatever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy.

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Yeah. And that was all just relationships you formed via MySpace?

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Yeah, I mean, I met. I met her through MySpace and

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then I met, like, my first manager through MySpace.

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I connected with my first, like, producer.

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That kind of helped me refine some

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ideas that I was already kind of creating through. Through

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MySpace. Yeah. Yeah. Did you. And

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then you ended up working. I don't know. Maybe you still work with Chris Hards.

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He said he made a bit. He was a big, you know, part of your.

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Your solo career and putting out the. What, the first EP that

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you did and. And obviously, yeah, the

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album Madam Gold was all done. We didn't meet through MySpace, but.

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Yes. Yes. Yeah. Ye. He came after the fact. After you kind of

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put out music yourself. Yeah. Okay.

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So just. Just kind of picking up with Madam Gold. I mean, at the

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time we were in the middle of COVID You were possibly

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going to be playing some shows in October. I don't

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know if the album. I. I don't think the album was out yet.

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And that was kind of where we left off, where it was like, okay,

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this is my new. You. You discuss the album

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as kind of like your new Persona was like, madame Gold

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is my new, like. And you kind of discovered that right through

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2018 into 2020 and. And then going back

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in the studio, recording some songs and adding the interludes and all that stuff.

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But, yeah, so that album comes out and then kind of tell me from

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there, you know, what. You know, what went on. Did you do

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that? Do you do those shows in October? And then kind of. I'm

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like, I don't even remember. Yeah. How does that end up folding into this new

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album? I mean, that's

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a hard, hard question, but I'll try to

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answer. Sorry. I don't know. Maybe

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that album coming out, like. So the album comes out. It's awesome. And then.

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Yeah. Life from there to here. Yeah, it

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was. I think at that time,

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Madam Gold was like a Persona that I

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felt like I needed because I was.

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I was kind of like in this low, like, low

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frequency kind of darker space.

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And Covid definitely exacerbated that. I think a lot of people can

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relate to that. And Madam Gold was like this

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kind of fighter, you know, Persona that I kind of felt

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like I needed to take on. And I

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guess I didn't feel like Gavin was enough. Like, so I kind of

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needed this way to kind of fight

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through the. The time period, fight through the

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feelings that I was having. And, yeah,

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it felt, like, very necessary, I guess, to. To have

229
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,320
that as a Persona.

230
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,800
And, yeah, when we released that album,

231
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,040
it just. It was really different than this release process,

232
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,160
like, in every way, I guess, because

233
00:14:39,599 --> 00:14:43,400
again, like, it felt like I had to,

234
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,200
like, put on these boxing gloves and just every step was, like

235
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,960
a punch, and every step was, like, slugging through the

236
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,480
mud and trying to move forward and trying to get this out and.

237
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,840
And then with just the state of the world, like, it just

238
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,560
felt like I had to kind of carry, like,

239
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,400
a lot of weight on my shoulders in order to move forward.

240
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,160
And I think that came off, like, in

241
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,520
all the aesthetics, like, in the visuals in any

242
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,080
interview that I did. Yeah, it was just like

243
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,640
this. I have to move forward by any means

244
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,490
necessary kind of attitude. And. And yes,

245
00:15:24,490 --> 00:15:27,810
we did the shows. Those were the

246
00:15:27,810 --> 00:15:31,410
challenge. Like, again, it was just, like, kind of moving

247
00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:35,210
through and carrying this weight and this burden in

248
00:15:35,210 --> 00:15:37,970
order to, like, move forward and move through it.

249
00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:42,410
And then once that was kind of done, it was

250
00:15:42,410 --> 00:15:46,250
out in the world, and I kind of, like, was able to breathe and,

251
00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:50,020
like, take a step back and reflect on it. I

252
00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:52,660
realized that as a

253
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:57,140
artist and as a vocalist and even as a songwriter,

254
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,780
I was exhausted and kind of

255
00:16:02,180 --> 00:16:05,780
uninspired, and I wasn't really sure where to go next.

256
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:09,700
Like, I was tired. Yeah, I think I was tired

257
00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:13,900
and. Because the process of making

258
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:17,220
Madam Gold wasn't easy, and the process of releasing Madam Gold

259
00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:21,240
wasn't easy, I was kind of like, f

260
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,080
music, you know, Like f. I bet. Yeah. I mean, like,

261
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,600
you finished the album, right? I think we were

262
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,400
talking last time, like, all the songs were kind of done in

263
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,000
2018. Right. And then it was like. I mean. Or

264
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,760
you had a. Definitely not 2018. Like. No, the songs

265
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,400
were kind of. I want to say the songs were kind of done maybe

266
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,440
end of 2019. I was 2019, wanting to.

267
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,160
Yeah. To, like, move forward with it. Then maybe you had the

268
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,960
structure of it or something. You had a something of it done maybe by

269
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,280
2018. Or it was the fact that we had started it.

270
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,360
Okay. Yeah. And so it was like, just a very long process.

271
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,120
So it's basically a three year process. Because then you have

272
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:09,320
Covid and it's like, you can't you finish it? And it's like, now what? We.

273
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,760
Yeah. Put it out and just let it sit here or. Yeah, yeah,

274
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,320
totally. So it was. It was like this long, like, long

275
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,070
haul kind of process. And then, yeah, once it was

276
00:17:20,070 --> 00:17:23,910
released, I was just like, man, this is. This was a lot.

277
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:27,790
And now I need to reevaluate and acknowledge that I'm not

278
00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:31,550
in the best space mentally in terms of,

279
00:17:31,550 --> 00:17:35,030
like, my confidence as an artist and as a songwriter.

280
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:39,070
And that. That meant for me just like, taking a

281
00:17:39,070 --> 00:17:42,830
break. Okay. Focusing on something else for a

282
00:17:42,830 --> 00:17:46,510
while. I traveled a lot. I was able to travel a

283
00:17:46,510 --> 00:17:49,270
lot in 2022, which kind of helped

284
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:53,190
recalibrate my mind and where it was at and. And just

285
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:56,790
again, like, reevaluate. And then

286
00:17:57,190 --> 00:18:00,630
long story short, at the end of 2022, I had.

287
00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:04,710
I had been in Italy for a month, and

288
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:08,670
I'm not like wealthy or anything, so it wasn't

289
00:18:08,670 --> 00:18:12,430
like some. It was an amazing trip, but it wasn't

290
00:18:12,430 --> 00:18:16,120
like I was, you know, on. This vacation, my ties and

291
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,840
hanging out. On the beach all day. No, no. It wasn't like I was,

292
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,560
you know, in. Where. Where do the rich people

293
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,640
go? No, I wasn't that, like, I don't know.

294
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,120
I don't even know. No. I basically had done

295
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,920
this, like, somewhat of an exchange because I got someone to rent

296
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,640
him, rent my apartment in la, and therefore I rented an

297
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,220
apartment in Italy because I was able to pay my rent. All this

298
00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:46,020
stuff. So was there for a month and basically just living. I was

299
00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:49,500
by myself and I was working on

300
00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:53,260
another project, not music related, and just able to

301
00:18:53,340 --> 00:18:56,140
just stop thinking about music for a while.

302
00:18:57,020 --> 00:19:00,580
And when I. And it was really refreshing. And then when I got

303
00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:04,260
back, I was like, you know what? Let me

304
00:19:04,260 --> 00:19:07,740
try getting in the studio with someone totally new. Just trying

305
00:19:07,740 --> 00:19:11,140
to kind of reinvigorate myself

306
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,940
and start maybe a new project. I didn't really

307
00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:18,660
know what to expect and I didn't really have any expectations. I was just like,

308
00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:22,980
it's been a long time since I've tried to create music and I should probably

309
00:19:23,380 --> 00:19:27,140
try, you know, like, see what it's like to just get back

310
00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:30,580
in the studio. So I got back in the studio when I. When I

311
00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:34,340
returned, and I actually had.

312
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:37,740
Covid actually got the producer that I got back in the studio with. We both

313
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:40,180
got Covid, gave it to him, so. Man,

314
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,200
sorry. Okay. And then after,

315
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,040
like, kind of a month of, like, being out

316
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,840
with COVID me and the producer, we got. We

317
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,560
tried again, got back in again, and what transpired was

318
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,920
the beginning of Diva of the People, really.

319
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,160
Yeah. We ended up writing the majority of Diva

320
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,840
of the People over the next two months. So like, the very

321
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,360
end of 2022. It was October in

322
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,540
November of 2022, and we.

323
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:19,180
We. It wasn't final vocals. It was basically we. We created,

324
00:20:19,580 --> 00:20:23,300
like, probably eight or 10 demos that turned

325
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:26,820
into what would be. Yeah, the

326
00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:30,420
majority of the songs that we would finish and develop for

327
00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:33,180
Diva the People. So it was, like, really fun.

328
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:38,300
It was. It was just fun. I wasn't

329
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,890
overanalyzing anything. I really

330
00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:45,330
had this vision of returning to, like, more of a dance

331
00:20:45,490 --> 00:20:49,330
focus rather than more of, like a funk, R and B.

332
00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:55,050
Like that. That type of vibe, which is more Madam Gold. I was

333
00:20:55,050 --> 00:20:58,610
like, I really just want to get out of this, like,

334
00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:02,690
not only the funk genre, but, like, out of my funk.

335
00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:08,930
Yeah. Go back to, like, stuff that makes me move,

336
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,080
stuff that's ready for the dance floor. Like, a sound that

337
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,240
makes me think of my

338
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,920
inspirations that were kind of always my inspirations,

339
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,040
like artists like Robin and Roisin Murphy and

340
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:29,680
obviously like Diana Ross and Donna Summer and just kind of taking

341
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,480
all those influences that have always been there that had kind

342
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,330
of, like, been, you know, suppressed somewhat or pushed to

343
00:21:37,330 --> 00:21:41,050
the side somewhat with Madam Gold and just own those again

344
00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:44,970
and take those back into the studio and take the

345
00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:48,170
influences of house back into the studio.

346
00:21:48,330 --> 00:21:52,010
Disco, obviously, soulful

347
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:55,690
pop, like Michael Janet, just all of that stuff

348
00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:59,490
that I had always loved and just say, like, let's

349
00:21:59,490 --> 00:22:03,340
make fun music. Let's make simple music. Let's let

350
00:22:03,340 --> 00:22:06,980
me, again, focus more on the songwriting and the

351
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:08,660
songs rather than

352
00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:13,940
the production being so intricate and so,

353
00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:19,660
like, complex and just kind of go back to the basics

354
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:23,500
and get really simple with it. And that's what we did. And it

355
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:27,340
just made the process for Diva of the People so

356
00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:29,780
fun. So reinvigorating.

357
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,160
Less. Less analytical and more going with, like, my first

358
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,920
instincts and my natural instincts and, yeah.

359
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,120
Getting back to, like, the love of. Of those.

360
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,680
Those types of songs that I kind of grew up listening to that were

361
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,480
more. More simple and, like, kind of more

362
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,720
fitting for the masses

363
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,870
than, like, a niche genre. Like a niche. Be like,

364
00:22:58,510 --> 00:23:02,150
yeah. Subsective, like, music listeners. I love

365
00:23:02,150 --> 00:23:05,670
that. And it sounds like, yeah, just going in and kind of having

366
00:23:05,670 --> 00:23:08,990
no expectation. Yeah, let's just make something

367
00:23:09,310 --> 00:23:12,870
and. And see where. Yeah. Yeah. And then end up

368
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:16,470
rolling the ball pretty quickly into, like. Oh, wow. These

369
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:20,110
are all songs that are what have, like, the same, like, through line

370
00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:23,590
or did you know is going to be starting to become an album or is

371
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:27,140
it like, oh, we're just making a lot of cool songs. Yeah, I just. I.

372
00:23:27,140 --> 00:23:29,900
I didn't think it was going to be an album. I thought, like, maybe we'll

373
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:33,660
just do an EP with the. The producer,

374
00:23:33,660 --> 00:23:36,460
which was Spencer Ludwig. And

375
00:23:38,060 --> 00:23:41,900
yeah, it wasn't really anything beyond that, but once the ball started rolling

376
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,620
and I. I felt comfortable enough to

377
00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:48,460
really take the lead in terms of

378
00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:53,100
the production and the songwriting and really steer him in the right

379
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:56,810
direction. And I was. It felt so good. It

380
00:23:56,810 --> 00:24:00,650
was like, yeah, this feels. This feels right. And then

381
00:24:00,650 --> 00:24:04,490
I was able to kind of recruit other producers to fit in with the sound

382
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:08,090
that we were kind of already naturally taking. And that was

383
00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:11,730
in 2023, that we were really able to, like, delve

384
00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:15,290
deep into that. And

385
00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:19,330
yeah, it was. It was super, super organic. And I

386
00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:23,050
want to say, like, by mid 2023, we

387
00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:26,770
had. We had the songs. Then I started recording

388
00:24:26,770 --> 00:24:30,050
them, doing the final vocals, final touches.

389
00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:34,450
It's such a process. Mixing. Mixing, I think

390
00:24:34,450 --> 00:24:37,650
started at the end of 2023, went into 2020,

391
00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:41,410
24, and then. Yeah, and then was out.

392
00:24:41,890 --> 00:24:43,730
And then it was out last week.

393
00:24:45,650 --> 00:24:47,640
But it is like, I think.

394
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,440
I think when you're indy to, the process

395
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,920
is extended depending on, like, the resources. Right.

396
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,480
So, like, if you have

397
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,280
kind of high expenses per song, like, that can

398
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,800
really influence the

399
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,040
timing of finishing the songs. Like, my. My

400
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,320
costs are pretty expensive per song for this project

401
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,460
because I recruited a lot of different people to

402
00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:23,220
complete one song. So I. Using

403
00:25:23,220 --> 00:25:26,820
one person and being like, we'll just do all of them. Like, yeah, well,

404
00:25:26,820 --> 00:25:30,540
no, like, I'm. I'm going to break it down because I know people

405
00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:33,940
that listen to this podcast probably are like, more on the music

406
00:25:34,020 --> 00:25:37,860
nerd side, like, wanting. Yeah, they want to know how to do it. They want

407
00:25:37,860 --> 00:25:41,340
to know where you are. Exactly. Like, want to know how to do it and

408
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:45,140
want to know the real. So for me, this is not typical for everyone

409
00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:48,510
and everyone has their own thing. But for me, for this particular

410
00:25:48,670 --> 00:25:52,510
album, for each song, I had myself

411
00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:55,950
as a writer and producer, and then I usually had another

412
00:25:56,030 --> 00:25:59,790
person. So that's two people already then.

413
00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:04,350
Because me and the producer were very particular about sounds and

414
00:26:04,830 --> 00:26:08,590
just wanting the production to be right. So, for example, for a

415
00:26:08,590 --> 00:26:12,190
song like, Heaven knows, live bass and live guitar were,

416
00:26:12,190 --> 00:26:15,950
like, not negotiable. So then we recruited a great bass

417
00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:19,470
player, Spencer Zahn to play bass, an amazing

418
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:22,830
guitar player, Philip Menesis, to play guitar.

419
00:26:23,230 --> 00:26:26,910
So did that, you know, paid those people. Yeah, now you got to pay the

420
00:26:27,150 --> 00:26:30,750
live musicians instead of just programming it in. Exactly.

421
00:26:30,750 --> 00:26:34,150
Then we had a great

422
00:26:34,150 --> 00:26:37,870
mixer that ended up doing the drums as well.

423
00:26:38,110 --> 00:26:41,310
So then he was kind of a part of the mixing and

424
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:45,190
programming drums for that song. So then there's four people,

425
00:26:46,150 --> 00:26:49,830
like, and that's not even, you know, that's. That's a lot of people already.

426
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:53,790
And everyone we, you know, compensated for for their

427
00:26:53,790 --> 00:26:57,590
part. And then for vocals for every single

428
00:26:57,590 --> 00:27:01,070
song, I had one vocal engineer. So for every

429
00:27:01,070 --> 00:27:04,630
single song, I was paying the vocal engineer per song to

430
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:08,470
track. You had a different one or. No, a different

431
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:12,190
vocal engineer on every song on the whole album. Oh, you have one that did

432
00:27:12,190 --> 00:27:15,870
every single song on the album? Yes, yes. Instead of it

433
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:19,630
being the producer that also cuts the vocals and

434
00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:23,230
also engineers the vocals. I had, like, one guy that did

435
00:27:23,310 --> 00:27:27,150
all the vocals for every song, but then that. Okay. You know,

436
00:27:27,230 --> 00:27:31,030
another guy. Yeah, Per song that I

437
00:27:31,030 --> 00:27:34,790
had to pay for too. So, yeah, the expenses got a little bit

438
00:27:34,790 --> 00:27:38,470
high per song. I think it was worth it. I mean,

439
00:27:38,550 --> 00:27:42,350
it was worth it. I loved the result, but, yeah, it

440
00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:45,910
was a lot. And it was. As a result, it took

441
00:27:46,550 --> 00:27:50,190
a long time to finish just because I needed, like, to make sure that

442
00:27:50,190 --> 00:27:53,790
I could secure the resources financially.

443
00:27:53,790 --> 00:27:57,630
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. To finish the song. And then, of course,

444
00:27:57,630 --> 00:28:01,270
like, when you get to the end of the process is mixing and mastering.

445
00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:04,890
And I mentioned the mixer that we had a guy named Caserta who was

446
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:08,840
incredible, and then mastering was Joe

447
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,600
Laporta. So everyone had a really vital role to

448
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,320
play. And yeah, it was. It took a. It took a

449
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,000
long time to finish it. Like, when

450
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,480
you kind of take into account, like, all these different people kind of

451
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,000
contributing and then getting paid and then

452
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,760
going back and forth and then, you know, getting. Yeah. Get everybody. And not

453
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240
only, like, the paying them out. It's like getting everyone in schedule.

454
00:28:34,830 --> 00:28:38,310
When can you come and do it? Right? I mean, you're. Now you're managing a

455
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:41,950
bunch of different people versus, like, you and maybe one other person,

456
00:28:42,350 --> 00:28:45,630
like, oh, let's just hammer this whole thing out in a weekend or, you know,

457
00:28:45,630 --> 00:28:49,030
a month or whatever it may be. Totally. And when you're. And when you're

458
00:28:49,030 --> 00:28:52,190
indie, you're really, like, a lot of people are

459
00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:56,270
believing in you and. And doing it at very,

460
00:28:57,470 --> 00:29:01,310
like, reasonable rates, you know, which is awesome. And I'm

461
00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:04,990
so appreciative to all of them. But, yeah, it's still. It's still a

462
00:29:04,990 --> 00:29:08,330
lot, and it's still a lot to advantage, and it still

463
00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:12,890
means that the. The timeline might not go as quick

464
00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:16,690
as you. As you want it. So I really, I. I

465
00:29:16,690 --> 00:29:20,450
was like. I told my manager when the album was pretty much written

466
00:29:20,450 --> 00:29:23,410
I was like, we're gonna release this at the end of 2023. And he was

467
00:29:23,410 --> 00:29:26,930
like, okay, we'll see. Then, of course,

468
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:30,490
September 2024 ended up being the. The best. Yeah,

469
00:29:30,890 --> 00:29:34,520
I'm sure. I mean, it's kind of. When you're independent,

470
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,360
obviously, it's great because you don't have somebody like, down your throat,

471
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,680
like, you need to get this out like tomorrow. And you're not. Like, you don't

472
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,040
have that stressor. But it's also like. Yeah, but then you have to come forward

473
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,039
and be like, well, I gotta go find every. I gotta find the money, I

474
00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:51,600
gotta find the people I've gotta do, you. Know, all of it. Yeah. So it's

475
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,360
like. It's kind of. There's. There's kind of. I'm sure there's pros and cons to

476
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,000
each, but I think if it was me as an artist, I would prefer

477
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,560
to have your situation where it's. Well, at least

478
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,920
I. I'm not gonna have the pressure of somebody that going like, this needs to

479
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,640
get out tomorrow. Like, you have more of the freedom

480
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,240
to kind of probably take your time and release it as you

481
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,760
want. You can put out whatever you want. Really. Yeah,

482
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,240
yeah, yeah. It. There's pros and cons, I think, on either

483
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,160
side of the. The spectrum when it comes to releasing music, for

484
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,010
sure. Yeah. So. Yeah. Because it's.

485
00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:30,970
Yeah, it's so different. I really do like having the creative

486
00:30:30,970 --> 00:30:34,530
control too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the vision now.

487
00:30:34,530 --> 00:30:38,370
And. Yeah, it feels good to

488
00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:42,690
kind of be. Be in the driver's seat and to

489
00:30:43,250 --> 00:30:47,050
executive produce and produce and write

490
00:30:47,050 --> 00:30:49,890
and just feel like,

491
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,040
feel comfortable in that role again. Did you just.

492
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,360
I'm just curious with this album

493
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,800
where the songs just like, you just knew that they're like, was there.

494
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,120
I don't know how to ask this question because it's like, obviously everything you're gonna

495
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,880
put out and you're gonna do, it's a personally personal to you

496
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,720
and you love what you're doing, obviously. But like. And what. What made

497
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,390
you want to do the. Make the decision of like, well, let's like

498
00:31:19,390 --> 00:31:23,030
really go all in on this and like hire one guy to

499
00:31:23,030 --> 00:31:26,630
do all the vocals and. And we need live

500
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:30,310
guitars and bass on this song. And like, was there.

501
00:31:31,910 --> 00:31:35,350
You just felt like it neat, like, I guess instead of

502
00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:39,030
cutting corners and costs, like, what was the decision between.

503
00:31:39,270 --> 00:31:42,750
You just wanted it to be as best as it could or. Yeah.

504
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:45,030
Yeah. I just wanted to sound. To sound

505
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,840
like the vision that I had in my mind. Okay. I.

506
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,240
That's a weird question. I mean, obviously you want it to sound the best you

507
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,200
can, but. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, to be like, you know what?

508
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,800
I'm gonna. I don't care. I'm going all in yeah,

509
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,560
no, I believe holding those stops yeah, yeah, I. Oh, I, I believe

510
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,800
in. I guess once this. Once the

511
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,000
demos were there and I could see the

512
00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:14,370
vision kind of coming to life through just the demos.

513
00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:19,570
Yeah, I was. I was excited and I really believed in.

514
00:32:19,650 --> 00:32:23,450
Believed in it. And not every song took that amount

515
00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:27,250
of people, you know, sure. Those were just. Those were probably

516
00:32:27,490 --> 00:32:30,210
three or four of the songs out of. Out of ten.

517
00:32:31,970 --> 00:32:35,810
But yeah, I think even when it came

518
00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:39,340
to, like, mixing

519
00:32:39,420 --> 00:32:42,860
and revisions, like, I just,

520
00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:48,420
I, I'm. I can be relentless. And I think that's

521
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:51,820
from my experience working with Chris Hart's. Like,

522
00:32:52,060 --> 00:32:55,860
when you work with people that are that talented and that have a standard

523
00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:59,500
that is so high and that are essentially

524
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,220
perfectionists, but are also pretty genius at

525
00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:06,910
what they do, you kind of get that you pick up on.

526
00:33:06,910 --> 00:33:10,750
On a similar way of doing things,

527
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:14,550
like whether or not you're working with them for every song. Like, I. Chris didn't

528
00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:18,030
do every song for this album, but that mentality of.

529
00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:22,270
Of kind of extracting the best

530
00:33:22,350 --> 00:33:25,950
and like, doing the best that we can with. With each song

531
00:33:26,110 --> 00:33:29,790
and giving each song the attention and the.

532
00:33:29,870 --> 00:33:33,620
To detail and just doing the absolute best that

533
00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:37,300
we can do, like, that totally was instilled in

534
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:40,940
me. So now I'm going to do that with probably every project.

535
00:33:41,340 --> 00:33:45,180
And. And it's not that it means that I think

536
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:48,900
every song is perfect on this album because that's. That's definitely not the

537
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,340
case. But I think every song,

538
00:33:53,420 --> 00:33:57,180
every song, except for one. One song,

539
00:33:57,180 --> 00:34:00,540
just the mixing got a little. Got a little weird for me. But

540
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,160
every song had that care in. Right.

541
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,240
Well, it's like once you get to a point, I mean, you want it to

542
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:12,080
be right. It's like you. You have a, you, you. You set a

543
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,480
bar for yourself. Like, I'm not gonna put something out. That'S not so hot. Yeah,

544
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,480
the bar is like. And that's. I. And I. And I think that a lot

545
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,240
of artists struggle with that too. I mean, I do as far as, like, putting

546
00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:27,080
out content for my show. And yeah, like, if it, like, I will sit.

547
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,160
And I had to hire an editor because I would take me so long because

548
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,770
I'd get so, like, caught up on like, one frame.

549
00:34:33,770 --> 00:34:37,010
I'm like, yeah, like, I. I don't love this. I Don't love how this cut

550
00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:40,850
looks. You know, Then I could sit there for half a day just trying to

551
00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:44,570
fix some little thing, and then most people don't

552
00:34:44,570 --> 00:34:47,890
even notice, right. They're like, what are you talking about? And it's like, but I

553
00:34:47,890 --> 00:34:51,570
noticed, so it's gonna. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I

554
00:34:51,570 --> 00:34:55,330
know. And that's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Will it matter?

555
00:34:55,410 --> 00:34:59,130
It will. Five more people like it or view it

556
00:34:59,130 --> 00:35:02,410
if it didn't have that frame. Right. Doesn't matter. Like,

557
00:35:02,490 --> 00:35:06,290
it's. You just have that. You just put this, like, standard on what you

558
00:35:06,290 --> 00:35:09,690
think personally, what you want it to look like.

559
00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:13,850
Absolutely. You know, I could see how there's, like, no compromising.

560
00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:16,850
And it's like, no, this is. This is my art. I want it to be

561
00:35:16,850 --> 00:35:19,090
a certain way and it's going to be that. Yeah, I want it to be

562
00:35:19,090 --> 00:35:22,810
great. I don't want to have the regret of, like. Man,

563
00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:25,210
every time I listen to the song now, all I'm going to hear is that

564
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:28,950
one little thing that I. No, I should have changed that or.

565
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:32,710
You know what I mean? No, yeah. There is one song. To be.

566
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:36,350
To be honest, there's one song like that. And every time I listen, I

567
00:35:36,350 --> 00:35:39,830
should have done, but it's okay. But nobody else will ever

568
00:35:39,830 --> 00:35:43,150
notice. You know what I mean? I don't think. Yeah. Oh, I love

569
00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:47,390
my, like, Prayer changes everything Cup. This is so funny. There you

570
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:50,750
go. Like, all the

571
00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:53,550
mugs in my house are, like, inspirational.

572
00:35:55,630 --> 00:35:59,230
That's cool, though. Faith prayer. I love

573
00:35:59,230 --> 00:36:02,910
it. Yeah. But, yes, I totally agree with you. You.

574
00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:06,710
You get it. Because once you're. What, you're on that train, it's hard to get

575
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:10,270
off. Right? Yeah. But I mean, it also. It

576
00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:13,990
shows that you work. Yeah. Yeah. And everything. Because

577
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:16,670
it's like, yeah, it's one thing if

578
00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:20,190
absolutely no one cared. And then you're like, no, this has got to be the

579
00:36:20,190 --> 00:36:23,100
greatest thing ever. And you're like, well, I. Well, you have already kind of set

580
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:26,020
a bar for yourself, you know. Yeah. Doing this project.

581
00:36:27,860 --> 00:36:31,420
So with this album verse, the last

582
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:35,260
one, or even with your. The ep you did. Because you did both

583
00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:38,940
of those solely with Chris Hart, Craig or mainly.

584
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:42,540
Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, I did. I did

585
00:36:42,540 --> 00:36:46,300
Madam Gold solely with Chris, and then. Okay, I worked with a few different people

586
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:50,140
on the releases before that. Okay. So, yes, you

587
00:36:50,140 --> 00:36:53,900
worked solely with him on Madam Mad Gold. And so going into this one,

588
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:57,700
it was like, yeah, you had more people. You had more

589
00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:01,260
people on the. On your staff as far as, like, yeah,

590
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:04,860
Money song, more producers More people and.

591
00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:08,980
Yeah, yeah, it was. I. I thought it was important. And I think for the

592
00:37:08,980 --> 00:37:12,060
next project, too, because I've already started the next thing, it's

593
00:37:12,860 --> 00:37:13,900
for me to be

594
00:37:16,620 --> 00:37:20,170
diversifying, like, who I'm working with

595
00:37:21,210 --> 00:37:23,850
so that I can.

596
00:37:25,450 --> 00:37:28,890
Yeah, I think, like, it's an energetic thing. Maybe it's just, like,

597
00:37:29,290 --> 00:37:33,050
moving around the pieces and not getting too attached to

598
00:37:33,770 --> 00:37:37,610
one person's vision for what it should sound like.

599
00:37:38,730 --> 00:37:42,530
And it helps me kind of take a step back. And

600
00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:46,340
as a songwriter, working

601
00:37:46,340 --> 00:37:50,180
with different producers brings out different elements of what I can do,

602
00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:53,940
like, in what I can bring to the table. So. Sure. Yeah, I. I'm.

603
00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:57,660
I'm pretty. I'm pretty into that idea. Like, Spencer

604
00:37:57,660 --> 00:38:01,500
Ludwig was the primary producer for. For Diva of the

605
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:05,260
People. I think he did. I think he did six songs, so he

606
00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:08,980
did a lot. Yeah, five or six. And then.

607
00:38:10,330 --> 00:38:14,010
And then a few other producers. Seven.

608
00:38:14,010 --> 00:38:17,610
Davis Jr. Did one with a guy

609
00:38:17,610 --> 00:38:21,410
named Leaf. They did Anybody Home, which is. Turns out to be, like,

610
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:25,250
a song that a lot of people are connecting with now. And

611
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:28,610
then Art of Tones, who is an amazing French

612
00:38:28,610 --> 00:38:32,370
producer. He. He did Disco Boots and you and

613
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:35,930
Me. So. Yeah, I think it was mainly those.

614
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,200
Those three producers. That's amazing. Yeah. You

615
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,320
have some shows coming up, right, to support it. You're playing the Casbo in San

616
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,040
Diego, which is my favorite venue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're

617
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,560
playing there. Wait, on Thursday or something, right? Wednesday. Wednesday,

618
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:54,520
yeah, yeah, Wednesday. Louisiana. San

619
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,240
Francisco, New York and D.C. so it's a. It's a short run,

620
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,240
kind of just to celebrate, like, the release of the album, and then we'll probably

621
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:06,040
do something more extensive,

622
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:11,520
either. Well, I'm thinking probably next. Next year we'll probably

623
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,640
do something a little bit more extensive, but, yeah, love it. Well,

624
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,480
congratulations on the album, and thanks again for

625
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,600
coming back and. And talking to me about this release. Yeah, thank you.

626
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,400
Exciting. I have one more question. I asked you the same question

627
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,760
last time, but I'm gonna ask it again if you have any advice for aspiring

628
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,580
artists. Oh, I love this question.

629
00:39:33,860 --> 00:39:37,460
I think now that I've released a

630
00:39:37,460 --> 00:39:41,180
slew of projects by myself or independently. Not by

631
00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:44,980
myself. I have a team, but independently, I would

632
00:39:45,060 --> 00:39:48,900
say to trust your vision

633
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:52,780
over someone else's vision for you, in

634
00:39:52,780 --> 00:39:56,580
terms of your visuals, in terms of the

635
00:39:56,580 --> 00:40:00,370
sound of your music. Like, trust the vision

636
00:40:00,370 --> 00:40:03,970
that you have. And usually kind of the first

637
00:40:05,090 --> 00:40:08,850
vision that really hits your heart and, like, that really resonates with

638
00:40:08,850 --> 00:40:11,570
you is the one that will take you

639
00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:15,490
to the next level. So like, for me,

640
00:40:16,050 --> 00:40:19,810
I always kind of had a visual of me, like, as this modern

641
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:23,690
disco queen. And every time I really committed

642
00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:27,480
to that, I felt myself, like, moving forward and, like, taking

643
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,320
steps in the right direction. And then the times where I got sidetracked from

644
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,760
that vision, I felt myself kind of get

645
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,520
stagnant and frustrated and not sure what to

646
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,159
do, because I wasn't trusting that. And so, yeah,

647
00:40:42,159 --> 00:40:44,520
trust. Trust the vision that you have for yourself.

648
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,200
Bring it backwards,

649
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,540
bring it back. Bringing it backward,

650
00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:03,220
Bringing it backward. Bring it backward,

651
00:41:03,380 --> 00:41:05,060
bring it backwards.