BiB: Damian Kulash - The Untold Story Behind OK Go's Wildest Music Videos

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What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringin It Backwards, a podcast

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where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of

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how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a

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chance to hang out with Damian of OK Go over

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Zoom video. We've actually had Tim of OK Go

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on our podcast, who about five years ago now

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during the Pandemic, they released a song All Together now. And we kind of got

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Tim's backstory during that interview and how

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the band started and all that. But this time around, we had Damian on the

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show, which was amazing. Got his backstory. Born and raised in D.C. he talks

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about how he got into music, recap a little bit about how he ended up

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meeting Tim and how the band formed in Chicago. But we dive really deep

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into this new album and we talk a lot about the music videos and

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the concepts and how they come up with all of these

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incredible ideas. And not only that, but the music is amazing as well. We

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talk about the video in the song Love Quite a Bit, which is the latest

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single from the new album. And they got a big tour coming up as well.

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So make sure to check out the new OK Go album and the adjacent

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possible. And check out the video version of this interview on our Facebook page

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and YouTube channel Bringin It Backwards. It'd be amazing if you subscribe to

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our channel like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram

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this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google Podcasts, please rate and

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review the podcast. It helps us out tremendously.

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We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our

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podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It

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backwards with OK Go.

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Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Hey, Damian, how are

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you? I'm good. And yourself? I'm great. Thank you so much for doing

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this. My pleasure. I'm very

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excited to chat with you. I'm Adam and this is about you

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and your journey in music. And we'll talk about the album and

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the tour and everything.

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Wonderful. Awesome. I actually had Tim

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on this show in the middle of COVID

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So like five, four or five years ago. I can't believe it's that

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long now. Doesn't it feel. I mean, I guess so much has happened since then,

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but also it feels like it's still happening

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somehow, right? It's. Yeah, it is weird. It feels like it was so long ago,

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but then like it wasn't really that long ago, but it kind of

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was. It's like. But yeah, you guys had put out All Together

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Now. We were talking about that at the time. So

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I'm super excited to kind of get your backstory and then obviously talk about

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this new album and everything you all have done since.

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Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Cool. So I saw

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you BORNS in the DC area.

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Indeed. Born in DC and raised

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in DC. I didn't

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move until after college. I mean, I went to school in Providence, Rhode island,

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and then moved to Chicago after that. But 18 straight years of D.C.

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wow. And then you met Tim and them at a camp, right? You'd go

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to a music camp or something? Yeah, we met at

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Interlaken. I started on violin, there was

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not a particularly good violinist, and switched over to visual art, which was my real

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love at the time. And he was there as a theater student, so it all

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kind of makes sense, you know, like.

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I started on violin, there was not a particularly good violinist, and

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switched over to visual art, which was my real love at the time.

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And he was there as a theater student, so it all kind of makes

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sense, you know, like. We were doing

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it wrong from the beginning. Yeah, you're both very musical, but you

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also have like this total element that you can add to your band that

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just separates you so much from everyone else with the visuals and

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the videos you guys do are so good. It's funny, I mean,

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I think why I wasn't a great

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instrumentalist as a kid was that it was all about learning.

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It was such a rote type of learning at that point. And

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I remember my violin teacher telling my mother that he's incredibly musical,

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he just won't practice. And it was like, that's a. You

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know. And when I found punk music as a teenager, it was like, oh,

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now I get to be incredibly musical without ever having to learn how to play

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the damn thing. And now I love, of

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course, I mean, like, there's nothing I would enjoy more than just to spend the

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day practicing because it's so meditative and wonderful. But my

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brain isn't as flexible and as wonderful as it was as a, you know, 12

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year old. I mean, I think we're pretty

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decent instrumentalists these days. And as

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a teenager, late teenager,

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my sort of understanding of myself

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shifted from being sort of primarily about visual art to

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primarily about music, I think, because it stayed more

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magical to me. I

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have a great love of.

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Shape and color and geometry and.

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You know, visual arts. But there was,

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after learning a bunch of this, you know what I did love doing as a

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kid was practicing that. I loved just painting or drawing for hours and hours and

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hours at a time. And. And as I grew

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older. What became

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like the world of writing.

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Fine art basically becomes about the essay, about the work.

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At some point, at least in an institutional setting.

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That doesn't have to be the case in the real world. But the things

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that drive museums and galleries and therefore,

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you know, art departments and universities and stuff are. Is the

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story that's told about the art much more than it is the art

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itself. And that was really disheartening to me and

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disillusioning to me. Whereas on the other hand,

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music, and especially pop music was kind of the

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opposite. It's just like it is what it feels like, and if it

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moves you, it moves you. And what's amazing about music that,

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you know, I think the other arts often strive towards is

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a very direct.

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Brain stem chemical relationship to your.

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To your soul. You know, like literally you. When

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a loud noise goes off, your body jumps before

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your brain registers that you've heard it. Because your ears are

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directly connected to your brain stem like that. You're actually. They. Like

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there is a more direct connection of sound to your

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nervous system than there is to your. To your intellectual brain.

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And. But you know that on one end of the spectrum and on

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the other end of the spectrum, the sort of pure math of

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the fact that, like.

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You know, a perfect fifth

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is the relationship of three to two and an octave is the relationship of two

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to one. And there are all these. And like, the reason these things feel the

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way they do to us is just our bodies register, resonating with.

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What'S so beautiful about a particular

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mathematical relationship. And that. That will inside of your

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soul turn into feeling. Right. Like that.

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All it is is sound waves through

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air. And yet somehow what you experience it as is,

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you know, the weirdest mix of joy and hope and.

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And hopelessness and lust and fury all at

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the same time in some indescribable thing like that.

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That is what makes it worth being alive

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in general. Right. Something that's deeper and wonderful and more human than

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humanness. And so music, as you can

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see, took over my soul in my late teen years, I think, because

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that mystery doesn't go away. Right? Right. I don't think

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it needs to in film or in painting or in

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writing either or. But the academic version of those things

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so often does kind of.

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Remove the sensuality and put in the intellectual.

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And my brain already wants to

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go like it pulls me towards the intellectual already anyways.

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What I need is the pull in my life towards the sensual. Okay, yeah,

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you didn't ask that question. But there's the answer. No, no, no. I love that.

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That was. And it always gets me thinking because I remember seeing videos online.

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I'm not a great musician, but I love music. I've been a

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music, you know, consumer forever. But I've seen videos where like, you know,

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certain notes will make certain patterns on water, like with the sound

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waves and like you can like. And then like you were saying, like, you know,

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these things are supposed to go together and then it makes you feel a certain

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way. Just like all like what sound can do is just so

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it blows my mind. Like I can't even like begin to wrap my head

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around it. Like when you start talking about like it's almost mathematical when

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you're writing a song, I would imagine if you know what's supposed to go where.

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Well, there is, there's a component of that that

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works. But what I guess what's

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amazing to me is I don't think that anybody.

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Fully understands it. Right? Like, like, of course.

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And you don't want to write like that. Of course.

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You can. There's always a deeper level of understanding to be had

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from a sort of mathematical, scientific perspective.

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And music theory is an

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unbelievably beautiful.

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Universe of relationships and dimensions.

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It's sort of like. The fact that

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you can slice through all of this with math, or you can slice through all

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of this with neuropsychology, or you can slice through all of this with,

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you know, geometry. Like

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there are all these beautiful ways to think about it in all these

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amazing ways to understand it, but

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none of them get it. What. It's sort of like the hard problem of

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consciousness, right? Like you can understand

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how brains work. That doesn't mean that you're going to understand where, what a

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person is, right? Where consciousness come from or what. And

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it's the same thing in music to me that like you can

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understand why like that,

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you know, major thirds have a different emotional effect than minor

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thirds do. And when you start combining them in interesting ways,

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you get interesting results. But that's not,

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that's not the same as on like the fact that

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some songs will, will move me to tears, that won't do anything to you,

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you know, or vice versa. And there's

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just. And in a weird, almost.

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Selfish or like.

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Self involved way.

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Writing music becomes an exploration of yourself,

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right? Like you. Because what you find is what resonates with

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you. Like you're all these things Present to me when I'm writing

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as. You know, boring, boring, boring,

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boring, boring. Amazing, right? Boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, amazing. And

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those little dots of amazing when you add them all up, when you figure out

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the way to get those all into a song, it becomes

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a reflection of what moves me.

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And yes, of course, I hope that

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moves other people. I like, I'm not as,

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as pure as, you know, the Rick Rubins of the world

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who believe that like you ignore the audience entirely. Like, it's hard for me not

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to think about how this will, how people will hear this,

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but I know from the get go that like nothing, that all it really

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is is what's moving me. Like if it moves me, maybe it'll move somebody else

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also. And I mean perhaps that's the same as the Rick Rubins of the world,

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I don't know. But the. It becomes.

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It's. A document of your

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own. Unique

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response to the universe, you know? Sure. And then when you're finished and then you

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present it to the world, then you're almost. Then you're giving it away at that

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point because you said it was selfish in the beginning. But then you're also. Oh

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yeah. I mean it is. Once

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you're done with it, you stop. Like you have no.

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You have no control over what it is in the world after that, you know,

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and, and, and that it can be a beautiful thing. That can be an

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incredibly sad thing. That can be like.

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It can be so disheartening to have something that you

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love so much go off into the world into

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silence, you know, or just like not or just to sort of

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eh. You know. But, but on the other hand,

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like there are things that you like. Yeah, that was a nice

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one. Like become the biggest thing of your life, you know, like

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even. I mean the strangest.

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Happenstances of the world around you. Like none of us know the world

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in which we are putting things out. You know, like you just have no

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idea what's going to happen to it. And they. And that's. It's gorgeous.

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You know, it is. It's just as confusing and

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wonderful as the music itself. Have you had an experience as I,

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I love this. I've had a lot of artists on talk about like putting something

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out that they were like either super vulnerable about and they were like, I'm gonna

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kind of hold like I don't know if I'm feel comfortable putting this out or

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they put something out that they liked and they just didn't assume the reaction or

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they put something out that they had a certain meaning towards. And then

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once the public got it, it flipped and it still became a thing.

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Like, have you had that with any of your music or a song that. You

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can think of? I mean, on some level there. It's all like that.

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Like. Like I've never. With the exception of our

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first album, like. Like get over it. I think that.

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Which, you know, we wrote. I wrote that in.

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1996 or 97. You know, it's like, oh

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yeah, yeah. You'Ve been to a while.

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And I mean at least pieces of it. It changed a couple times in

236
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those few years. But like. It.

237
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By the. That because of the fact that like that was the song

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that would. Had gotten assigned to a major label. Like, I knew that was the

239
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one that was one they cared about. Right. But with the

240
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exception of that, there's. We've never known

241
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,840
what. What song would be a single, so to

242
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speak, or would. Would grab people's attention as we've written it.

243
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You know, like.

244
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And I don't think. I mean even our most recent album,

245
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there's a song called Stone Only Rolls Downhill, which is. Which

246
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we decided to put out as the first single. And it was written.

247
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Many parts of it were written. 20 years

248
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ago really. It was like. It was stuff that was. It

249
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was like a demo for our third album, I guess. I don't know, like a

250
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long time. Maybe it was even our second album, but it was a long time

251
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ago. Bits of it and it wasn't finished, but there was like. I was just

252
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going back through old, you know, folder of old

253
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stuff and was like, this is pretty great little groove. And. And.

254
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And it was like tried to re record it and there was just something missing.

255
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Like. So we actually kept. I mean it's all. It's like a new. A

256
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,440
new song built around a couple performances from 20 years ago, you know.

257
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Wow. And. And even then it felt like a throwaway. It was like,

258
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this is a cute one, you know, but like it

259
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didn't. But it wasn't till the record was done that a few, like a few

260
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friends who I played it for just had this like, very visceral

261
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reaction to it. It didn't. Because it's not like a commercially sounding song

262
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really, you know. Right, right. Or it's certainly not this. The thing you would be

263
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like. That. That would scream,

264
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okay, Goness. I guess I know what you're saying. Yeah, for

265
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sure. And. And honestly, like, I'm. That's a. That's a

266
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trap that thing. Like, I don't think

267
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it's like, some of my favorite songs that I've written are ballads. And

268
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they're certain. And are like, that's just not

269
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what OK Go is known for. Because that's not.

270
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The stuff that we've decided to make videos for. And largely because the

271
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video ideas don't like the type of videos we like to make don't

272
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fit as well with ballads or haven't, you know, or because we can't find a

273
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sponsor who wants to pay for a video like that or sad. So sounds good,

274
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right? Like, and it's. And it's. I hate to think

275
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that that, like, our artistic career is. Or what

276
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:44,430
we're known for has been. Has been that defined

277
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:48,510
by, you know, like, financial opportunities. But then again,

278
00:17:48,750 --> 00:17:51,550
it is for everyone, right? Like, you know, like

279
00:17:52,270 --> 00:17:55,630
Michelangelo was, you know, was doing

280
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:59,850
branded entertainment, man. Like that. Like, that was, you

281
00:17:59,850 --> 00:18:02,970
know, the Roman Catholic Church was paying him to put that up on the ceiling,

282
00:18:02,970 --> 00:18:05,970
and they weren't gonna. He didn't get to decide to put the devil up there,

283
00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:09,170
you know, like. Right. And.

284
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I. I guess

285
00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:19,130
the. It all. I mean, I. You've caught me on a morning when

286
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I'm feeling rather like I. I like the

287
00:18:22,930 --> 00:18:26,050
mystery of all that. You know, it.

288
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Because I don't think, like, everybody who thinks they have control over what they're doing

289
00:18:30,450 --> 00:18:32,770
or know what they're doing feels to me like

290
00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:37,970
they've kind of lost it already, you know. Yeah. Well, as a fan of

291
00:18:37,970 --> 00:18:41,530
okay Go, my favorite song on the new album is this is How It

292
00:18:41,530 --> 00:18:44,930
Ends. I think that song is so awesome. And it's a balance.

293
00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:49,690
It really. I love that song. Thank you very much. And I mean,

294
00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:52,170
I don't know. I actually do have a video that I want to make for

295
00:18:52,170 --> 00:18:55,410
it, and hopefully we will. Oh, really? That's exciting.

296
00:18:56,450 --> 00:19:00,250
But. And I mean, and it's funny that, like, how

297
00:19:00,250 --> 00:19:03,930
many of your interviews. Is that even a

298
00:19:03,930 --> 00:19:07,770
thing, right? Like, unfortunately. And the

299
00:19:07,770 --> 00:19:10,730
biggest blessing of our life at the same time. Like, an OK Go song almost

300
00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:13,170
doesn't exist unless it has a video.

301
00:19:14,850 --> 00:19:18,290
It is such a gift that we get to do this stuff, that we get

302
00:19:18,290 --> 00:19:21,370
to, like, explore these other types of art, and then we get to, like, chase

303
00:19:21,370 --> 00:19:25,210
our wildest ideas into the weirdest places. But it also. It

304
00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:28,990
means that, like. That to

305
00:19:28,990 --> 00:19:32,790
a vast swap, you know, of course we have, like, a core of

306
00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:36,270
mega fans who will listen to everything, and I love them

307
00:19:36,590 --> 00:19:40,030
so much for that. And we'll relate to the music,

308
00:19:40,110 --> 00:19:43,950
specifically for the music. But we know that, like, in the.

309
00:19:44,270 --> 00:19:48,110
In the kind of media landscape

310
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:51,710
we live in. It's kind of like Every. Everybody gets

311
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:55,750
15 seconds of your attention if the algorithm lets it. And that

312
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:58,550
algorithm is only going to pick an OK Go song if it happens to have

313
00:19:58,550 --> 00:20:02,110
a video. Right? So. And, and it's a.

314
00:20:02,430 --> 00:20:05,470
You know, it. It sucks, but it's also like, how much are you going to

315
00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:09,150
rage against it? Like, I'm not. I can't. I'm too.

316
00:20:09,870 --> 00:20:13,230
I'm too old to like be raging about.

317
00:20:14,110 --> 00:20:16,750
About how art moves through the world. It does what it does. And I just,

318
00:20:16,750 --> 00:20:19,910
I want to spend my time making it rather than. Than. Than gaming it, you

319
00:20:19,910 --> 00:20:23,600
know? And you've been blessed to do that. I mean, you can

320
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,000
do the videos that everyone loves and that are so creative. And I want to

321
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,560
talk to you a little bit about just that in general. But. And then you

322
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,280
can also. And then you can write the music that you love as well. And

323
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,959
it all kind of can come together and people can find this is how it

324
00:20:36,959 --> 00:20:39,720
ends where I. Which I love, but I also love your video. So I think

325
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,560
it kind of goes on both ways I look from, from. My perspective, maybe I'm

326
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,160
just like speaking defensively. From my perspective, it's all like, it. It like.

327
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,520
Connects. It's like a single universe, right? Yeah, exactly. And where. From

328
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,200
where I stand, this stuff all. It all relates. And

329
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,200
it's all really obvious how it relates to me because it's sort of like.

330
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,680
Like if you're the person eating the meal, you understand the relationship of the salt

331
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,120
and pepper. Yes, they're different things, but like, but this, the flavor doesn't

332
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,480
happen without the. Doesn't exist with both. Right? And.

333
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,400
There'S some things that need more salt and some things need more pepper and you

334
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,720
can love them both on their own. But the fact of the matter is it's

335
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,480
like this is the meal, right? And.

336
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,520
I am at the, like, I am dead center of that

337
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,240
particular restaurant. Like, I'm the head chef of this particular restaurant.

338
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,240
So I get. I.

339
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,360
The whole picture makes sense to me. I just am also aware of the fact

340
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:41,800
that like, yeah, most bands don't like,

341
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,650
don't have this whole weird video arm. They get to like, there's

342
00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:48,650
benefits to that in terms of, like, they put out albums twice as fast as

343
00:21:48,650 --> 00:21:51,810
we do. But like, I'm also never, like, I'm so happy that

344
00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:55,770
30 years into this career, almost 30 years into this career, I guess we're 20

345
00:21:55,770 --> 00:21:59,410
something, 26, 27 years into this. I, like,

346
00:21:59,490 --> 00:22:03,130
we've never been bored at all, you know, and like, and

347
00:22:03,130 --> 00:22:06,890
I, and I got like, right now I'm trying to say, like, how

348
00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:09,970
much more time to spend making videos for this most recent EP

349
00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:13,410
versus just like getting to writing the next one. And

350
00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:18,290
I love both options and for different reasons.

351
00:22:18,290 --> 00:22:18,690
Like.

352
00:22:22,290 --> 00:22:25,850
There is this pressure where it's sort of like I don't want the songs we

353
00:22:25,850 --> 00:22:29,610
just put out for this to be it. Right? Like for the ones that

354
00:22:29,610 --> 00:22:33,010
have videos to have their moment and for the other ones to be.

355
00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:36,650
Hopefully somebody will find them one day. It's like, no, I wish you could make

356
00:22:36,650 --> 00:22:40,500
a video for every single one, but I also don't want to spend, you

357
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,660
know, the next two and a half years making videos,

358
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:47,500
scrounging up the resources to make a video for every, for every song. So

359
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,260
like it's. And, and, and when I find myself

360
00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:54,300
stressed out about that, I, I just have to remind myself like this is the

361
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,420
best possible problem to have. Like that, that, like

362
00:22:58,220 --> 00:23:02,060
that I have too many creative options that I want to chase rather than

363
00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:05,790
I don't know what to do with myself, you know? Sure. Yeah. Is that, I

364
00:23:05,790 --> 00:23:09,590
mean, you talk about doing a bunch of videos and like that obviously that's got

365
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:13,270
to be so time consuming. Like the love video is so rad with all the

366
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:16,910
mirrors and everything. Like, I just, I mean something like that had to

367
00:23:16,910 --> 00:23:20,670
take forever to plan and think of. So like you have

368
00:23:20,670 --> 00:23:24,470
a big gap in between, like 10 years in between the last two albums. Was

369
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:28,310
it just. Were you guys focusing a lot on videos and. Well, there's like,

370
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:32,030
I'd give. Maybe I think that, that the videos might add

371
00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:35,560
a year or two to each album cycle. Maybe like because we

372
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,280
spend so long on, you know, on making them and

373
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,520
they're a lot of times they're incredible. They're like films,

374
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,720
they're these big art projects. They're not like the way you're supposed to

375
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,040
like look backing out of it. If you're a,

376
00:23:50,519 --> 00:23:53,920
if you're a label and you're trying to sell music and you know that it

377
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,720
needs a video, you hire a director and that director puts in,

378
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,610
you know, anywhere from a month to six weeks of work to

379
00:24:01,610 --> 00:24:05,450
get something really awesome. If they're

380
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:09,250
a really high level director who can work much faster, have a really big team,

381
00:24:09,250 --> 00:24:12,330
maybe it's only a few days, but then you're paying for that, right? So it's

382
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:16,130
like it's. And then your band shows up, they

383
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:18,690
do the thing that's supposed to happen in the video and then you have an

384
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:22,090
advertisement for a song and hopefully that goes well and good for you.

385
00:24:23,290 --> 00:24:27,010
Our videos are obviously like, it's a whole different thing where it's this art project

386
00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:30,790
that we ourselves build up. And usually

387
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:35,550
we're starting from scratch in a domain we have very little

388
00:24:35,550 --> 00:24:39,310
experience with. Like, you know, luckily I now know people who

389
00:24:39,310 --> 00:24:41,670
know a little bit about robots, but it's not like I can just go to

390
00:24:41,670 --> 00:24:44,230
the back room and grab my robots. Like, I got it. You have to figure

391
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:48,030
out a way to make this all happen. And that does take months of

392
00:24:48,030 --> 00:24:51,830
time. And then we get to make something that other people don't,

393
00:24:52,550 --> 00:24:56,100
you know, don't get to make. From. From. From the

394
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,860
labels perspective, you would say other people don't waste their time or money on. Right.

395
00:25:00,020 --> 00:25:02,820
But from an artist perspective, like, they don't get to make it. And I do,

396
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:06,260
you know. Exactly. And. And so

397
00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:10,820
it is definitely taken up some time. But the main thing that happened between

398
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:13,860
our last album, this one was Covid.

399
00:25:14,580 --> 00:25:17,620
Sure. Children. Yeah. Andy and I both had kids

400
00:25:19,060 --> 00:25:22,900
and. Thank you very much. And we were both. We were both

401
00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:26,670
just did. Really didn't want to tour or. Or be

402
00:25:26,670 --> 00:25:29,910
away from them very much. That like, we, you know, we were able to write

403
00:25:29,910 --> 00:25:32,510
some. But I don't know if you have kids, but. But it. Yeah, I do

404
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:36,350
have two. I know all about it. Like, I. I thought that,

405
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:39,230
yeah, I'd still get a couple hours of writing. I have twins. And it was

406
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:43,030
just like there was a good. There was a. I didn't. There was like,

407
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:45,830
I live in the same building as my studio and I.

408
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:50,270
I didn't see it for months at a time, you know, like. And it was

409
00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:53,350
wonderful. I. I would never want it any other way, but, but,

410
00:25:54,660 --> 00:25:57,340
but, yeah, that put some time in there. And then right when we were about

411
00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:01,060
to get back to music, my wife and I got

412
00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:04,860
the green light from Apple to direct a movie that we had

413
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:08,260
been pitching. And I like, you know,

414
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:12,180
as a director, the opportunity to make a

415
00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:15,460
feature was like, I can't. I'm obviously not gonna turn that down. Like, what an

416
00:26:15,460 --> 00:26:18,980
amazing thing. And I kind of naively was like, we'll still be writing at the

417
00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:22,200
same time as if, like, I'd have days off from the movie where I just

418
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:22,893
like, did music. And there's no such thing as a day off from a movie,

419
00:26:22,894 --> 00:26:23,079
obviously. And it was awesome. The movie is called The Beanie Bubble. It was on

420
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,040
Apple. And there's no such thing as a day off from a movie, obviously. And

421
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,800
it was awesome. The movie is called the Beanie Bubble. It was on Apple.

422
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,200
Zach Al Thanakis in. It's a great film.

423
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,320
He's incredible. I mean, Zach Alifanakis is one of the most.

424
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,920
Profoundly wonderful humans I've ever met.

425
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,000
And so, you know, so next thing you know, it had been

426
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,770
like eight, nine years since our record had come out, our last album

427
00:26:50,770 --> 00:26:53,770
had come out and we never thought we were taking a break. It was just

428
00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:56,290
sort of like we're just, I'm just gonna do this thing, but then we'll get

429
00:26:56,290 --> 00:27:00,130
back to writing. You know, it's gonna happen that way. Yeah. So the videos have

430
00:27:00,130 --> 00:27:03,849
a little to do with it, but. But I can't blame them entirely. Okay. With.

431
00:27:03,849 --> 00:27:06,890
Do you. When it comes to a video like the robot one or I mean

432
00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:09,410
any of your videos are. So do you see like an idea or you have

433
00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:12,850
an idea and you're like, okay, how can I really build this? Or

434
00:27:13,330 --> 00:27:16,930
does the video idea come and then you find the song that will fit it?

435
00:27:18,590 --> 00:27:22,070
Usually what happens, I mean, the songs happen totally

436
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:25,870
independent of video. It's not. We've never written a song. We never had like a

437
00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:29,550
video idea. We were like, now let's write the song for it. Okay. But

438
00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:34,390
there it is the case that I will sometimes have a

439
00:27:34,390 --> 00:27:38,190
visual idea that sort of floats around waiting

440
00:27:38,430 --> 00:27:40,350
to attach to a song, you know.

441
00:27:42,030 --> 00:27:43,150
That like.

442
00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:49,460
Like that's a good one. In fact, I remember that

443
00:27:50,340 --> 00:27:53,820
we might have already been working on the demo for the

444
00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:55,580
Love

445
00:27:55,580 --> 00:28:00,140
song

446
00:28:00,140 --> 00:28:08,620
when

447
00:28:08,620 --> 00:28:11,940
I had

448
00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:17,370
that

449
00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:32,730
idea.

450
00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:38,210
A world of mirror illusions. Like think of how many cool mirror illusions there

451
00:28:38,210 --> 00:28:41,210
are. And just put a note in my phone being like, remember to go down

452
00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:45,010
this rabbit hole and started going down that rabbit hole of different

453
00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:47,090
mirror illusions and realized like.

454
00:28:48,930 --> 00:28:52,610
If you want to do this so that it's not just sort

455
00:28:52,610 --> 00:28:55,330
of a sequence of.

456
00:28:57,010 --> 00:29:00,530
Cuts, you know, like if you want to do more than one of these

457
00:29:00,530 --> 00:29:03,650
tricks in a row, you're going to need precision that humans can't

458
00:29:03,890 --> 00:29:07,570
muster, you know, like, sure. And we're going to need robots. And that was.

459
00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:12,130
But like at that point. So like between the

460
00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:14,530
thought and the. And the note in my phone to,

461
00:29:15,730 --> 00:29:19,570
to. To like reaching out to a friend Was probably a year and a

462
00:29:19,570 --> 00:29:22,010
half, you know, sort of just like on a list of maybe I'll do it

463
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:25,490
someday kind of things. And by that time, the song was more together,

464
00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:29,610
and it became clear that, like, oh, wait, that is a perfect. Like, that

465
00:29:29,610 --> 00:29:33,330
is actually a perfect metaphor for this thing I'm singing about in

466
00:29:33,330 --> 00:29:37,090
the song. But. But they weren't connected until then.

467
00:29:37,090 --> 00:29:39,290
Right? Like, and sometimes it's even more.

468
00:29:42,170 --> 00:29:45,970
For lack of a better term, stupid than that. Like, when we went. When we

469
00:29:45,970 --> 00:29:48,250
made the treadmill video for Here It Goes Again.

470
00:29:50,250 --> 00:29:53,850
We knew we wanted to dance on treadmills. And we were like, well,

471
00:29:53,850 --> 00:29:57,410
let's pick this sort of, like the marchiest, stompiest, most

472
00:29:57,410 --> 00:30:01,190
driving song on the record. And we picked this song called Good Idea at the

473
00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:04,830
time because it was, like, really sort of like driving and

474
00:30:04,830 --> 00:30:07,950
pounding. Like, it leans forward the way you would want to. Like.

475
00:30:10,110 --> 00:30:13,750
You know, it just. Yeah, right. And we got on the

476
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:17,390
treadmills and it. And nothing we did

477
00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:21,470
matched the music at all. It just was like, no move

478
00:30:21,630 --> 00:30:25,070
could work. Like, the tempo was just somehow wrong. So we literally just, like, played

479
00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:28,920
the whole album and jumped around on treadmills until, like, one

480
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,520
of the songs made sense, you know, which

481
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,480
is crazy because it's like that song.

482
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,680
It wasn't until years later that I was like, oh, right. The lyrics of that

483
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,520
song are literally, here it goes again. Like, here it goes again and

484
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,040
a treadmill. Or like, it seems like it's a. Like, how dumb am I that

485
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,200
I didn't already make that connection, you know? Right.

486
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,600
So whatever. They'll connect in different ways. But I've also. It's sort of

487
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,380
back to the thing I was saying before about. Art

488
00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:01,980
being such a. Roundabout

489
00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:02,860
way of.

490
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:09,340
Reflecting your own self, you know? Like.

491
00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:14,780
I'm always surprised that this visual idea in this song seemed to fit

492
00:31:14,780 --> 00:31:17,980
so well. And I'm like, oh, it's not that weird that, like,

493
00:31:18,860 --> 00:31:22,380
I'm the person who's into this type of sound and this type of

494
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:25,540
visual, like, connected again. Connected again.

495
00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:29,700
And the videos themselves.

496
00:31:31,780 --> 00:31:35,500
I'll give you. I think a better. You can erase the whole last answer because

497
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:39,100
it's actually probably truer and answers it better. Well, I want to keep your

498
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:40,580
ass. I know. I'm just.

499
00:31:43,540 --> 00:31:47,220
Like, the process. The reason

500
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:50,860
that the love video with mirrors and

501
00:31:50,860 --> 00:31:54,140
robots looks the way it does is still

502
00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:58,300
because of the song, not the mirrors and the robots.

503
00:31:58,940 --> 00:32:02,460
Because as we're. Once you've got this set of ideas,

504
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:06,300
we're choreographing them to the feelings of the song. And there's

505
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:08,780
just no. Like, you could probably take that same

506
00:32:09,980 --> 00:32:13,500
idea of, you know, robots and mirrors.

507
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:17,300
And. If you were to try to make a

508
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:21,080
video for an upbeat dance song with it, it would be

509
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,680
so wildly different than that one. Or to a, you know, really

510
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,360
slow ballad, it would be so wild. Like, because as you're doing it,

511
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,040
the, the discovery process, what, like which

512
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,919
tricks, which effects, which,

513
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,640
you know, visual elements work or resonate has everything

514
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,320
to do with how they, how they relate to the song. So

515
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,330
like when, like the way that

516
00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:50,530
that idea comes together is I text my friend

517
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:55,090
who knows robot people, I'm like, I got an idea for robots and mirrors. Do

518
00:32:55,090 --> 00:32:58,530
you want to direct this with me? And he's like, that sounds awesome. We get

519
00:32:58,530 --> 00:33:02,330
together for a week with, with, you know, 20 mirrors in

520
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:05,890
an office, no robots, just like, just

521
00:33:05,890 --> 00:33:09,530
to play with reflections and see what

522
00:33:09,530 --> 00:33:13,360
tricks we like. And hopefully by the end of three or

523
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,080
four or five sessions of playing for three or four

524
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,680
hours, we've got a big kind of like

525
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,680
vocabulary of tricks we want to play with. And at that point

526
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,880
you can start setting them against the music and figuring out what this really feels

527
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,480
like. But you're not. Like, we didn't start

528
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,300
with. I mean, there's no idea or plan at the get go.

529
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:40,940
There's just a sort of sandbox to play in. And then you get it. It's

530
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:44,540
like if the sandbox reveals all this cool stuff, it reveals it along

531
00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:48,340
with the song that you're already, you already have in mind. So it

532
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:52,020
conforms itself to the song. Like, I don't know what that, what those visual ideas

533
00:33:52,020 --> 00:33:55,100
would be. Like if we've been working with a different song the entire time. You

534
00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:58,620
know what I mean? Sure, yeah. Could it look totally different? 100%. Yeah. Or just

535
00:33:58,620 --> 00:34:02,300
fail. Like, there's certainly times we've gotten into the sandbox

536
00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:05,730
and then like. I just don't think we have,

537
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:09,210
like, I don't think we have a three and a half minutes worth of awesome

538
00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:12,210
here. Like we have 30 seconds worth of awesome, but we're not going to do

539
00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:15,490
that over and over again. So like that was cool. Let's try something else, you

540
00:34:15,490 --> 00:34:18,970
know? Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I do. I do remember when I talked to.

541
00:34:18,970 --> 00:34:22,130
Tim before too, he was talking about when you guys started in Chicago,

542
00:34:23,010 --> 00:34:26,490
you were kind of known for your posters too, right? Like you were poster up

543
00:34:26,490 --> 00:34:29,650
the whole city and then the cops were after you. So I just think it's

544
00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:33,390
over. It's like you have, you've always kind of had that, you

545
00:34:33,390 --> 00:34:37,190
know, visual art element along that kind of

546
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:40,670
connected to the band in this weird way. I. I know that I should. What

547
00:34:40,670 --> 00:34:44,430
I should relate that to is my time in Providence. Like,

548
00:34:44,430 --> 00:34:47,590
I went to Brown and I was. You know, the Brown and RISD

549
00:34:47,910 --> 00:34:51,590
scenes are very interconnected. So everything like every

550
00:34:51,590 --> 00:34:55,310
rock show came with hand silk screen posters

551
00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:59,030
because like all the cool punk kids were on were like, you

552
00:34:59,030 --> 00:35:01,830
know, art students at RISD. Sure, yeah.

553
00:35:03,110 --> 00:35:06,670
But in my. And so I'm sure that's like a lot of the. The basis

554
00:35:06,670 --> 00:35:10,150
of it. But in my head it really relates to DC. Like.

555
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:15,510
So I DC circa 1989.

556
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:18,550
I am, you know, 13, 14 year old kid

557
00:35:19,830 --> 00:35:22,870
and listening to mostly

558
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,000
like Prince, Run dmc,

559
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,200
Depeche Mode and Led Zeppelin. It's all

560
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,920
over the map. But it's very like mainstream pop stuff. Yeah, it's mainstream,

561
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,520
sure. But DC had that scene going on, I'm sure. Right. And then.

562
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,600
Exactly. Then comes 1990 and I'm a freshman in high school and

563
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,160
someone gives me, you know, my first fugazi. Fugazi on

564
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,960
one side and shudder to think on the other side. Tape and man.

565
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,720
Like it. It. The. Not just because the music

566
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,240
was awesome, but because the music was played

567
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,840
was like so evidently played by humans. You know,

568
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,760
like it's very. Like maybe take

569
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,360
Led Zeppelin out of that mix because it's. That's very human music. But.

570
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,000
But Prince, like it's the most virtuosic shit ever. But it's

571
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,560
like, I don't remember. Like

572
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,720
you have to be an extraordinarily good musician to even realize that the reason the

573
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,760
drums feel so good is that they are played by a human. They sound so

574
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,520
electronic and perfect. Like you don't even realize that it's not a

575
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,719
sequencer. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Right? And like Run DMC, like it's.

576
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:32,943
It is wildly human on some level, but it was like sampler music from a

577
00:36:32,944 --> 00:36:33,489
time like all of this stuff, like it just came from the. From the. From

578
00:36:33,490 --> 00:36:33,903
the gods as far as I concerned. Like, it. I. And then you hear Fugazi

579
00:36:33,904 --> 00:36:37,560
and you're like, it's just angry dudes, you know. Right? And like Run

580
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,400
dmc, like it's. It is wildly human on some level, but it

581
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,210
was like sampler music from a time like all of this stuff, like

582
00:36:45,210 --> 00:36:48,770
it just came from the. From the. From the gods as far as I concerned.

583
00:36:48,770 --> 00:36:52,450
Like, it. I. And then you hear fugazi and you're like, it's just

584
00:36:52,450 --> 00:36:55,690
angry dudes, you know. Just a few guys and some instruments.

585
00:36:56,010 --> 00:36:59,130
Right? And around the same time I, you know, I.

586
00:36:59,930 --> 00:37:03,650
Pixies were given to. Tim gave me my first Pixies record and. Oh,

587
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:07,450
wow. And like it just that understanding that you can

588
00:37:07,450 --> 00:37:11,050
get just as much emotion or more out of two notes,

589
00:37:11,330 --> 00:37:14,890
you know, like, like just. And. And that being that,

590
00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:18,730
that having it be broken was kind of the point.

591
00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:22,410
Right? Like that's what it, that, that's what it, that's actually why it felt so

592
00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:26,050
great. And because I was in D.C.

593
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:29,610
that Fugazi tape that I got and I could also just go and see them

594
00:37:29,610 --> 00:37:33,330
play an all ages show for five bucks in a, in a, in a

595
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:36,970
local park. Because like, you know, for people who, who aren't students

596
00:37:36,970 --> 00:37:40,360
of punk and like the DC

597
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,440
scene was very

598
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,920
centered around Discord Records, which was very centered around

599
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,960
Fugazi and before that Minor Threat. Ian Makai was a singer

600
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,680
of both bands and one of the two heads of that label. And

601
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,240
they had a very firm set of rules, like

602
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:03,520
almost oppressively punk. Right. All

603
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,340
shows had to be five bucks. All shows had to be all ages.

604
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:12,060
When in, like when possible. It was better to do it in a,

605
00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:16,820
you know, a high school cafeteria or a church. Like a community

606
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:20,620
center. Yeah, yeah, right. Like, like I don't think I ever

607
00:38:20,620 --> 00:38:24,380
saw Fugazi play in a rock club in D.C. I

608
00:38:24,380 --> 00:38:27,220
saw him play in rock clubs in Philly and in Boston. It was like I

609
00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:30,100
traveled to go see him and play those places. But like in D.C. it was

610
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:33,860
always, it was at Fort Reno, which is this park. Park outside or

611
00:38:33,860 --> 00:38:37,330
it was at St. Stephen's Church downtown. Like, like

612
00:38:38,450 --> 00:38:42,210
and, and records, I think CDs were allowed to

613
00:38:42,210 --> 00:38:45,970
be ten bucks and records had to be eight. But it was like once, once

614
00:38:45,970 --> 00:38:49,650
that's established, it's like you can't if, if

615
00:38:50,130 --> 00:38:53,490
you know, like when the Chili Peppers came to town,

616
00:38:53,730 --> 00:38:57,330
they still had to play all ages shows because you can't play

617
00:38:57,330 --> 00:39:01,090
D.C. and, and, and do an 18 and up show. It's, it's

618
00:39:01,090 --> 00:39:04,710
like. It'S, you know, it's like going

619
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:08,430
to London and saying, you know, I hate football. Like it, you know,

620
00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:12,030
like you're, it's just against the cult rules of the

621
00:39:12,030 --> 00:39:15,870
scene. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so I love that though. I think that's so awesome

622
00:39:15,870 --> 00:39:19,390
that that was able to be kind of built that way. It was

623
00:39:19,390 --> 00:39:23,110
unbelievable. And it's, it, it's. There are vestiges of it

624
00:39:23,110 --> 00:39:25,110
still that like some of the only

625
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:29,570
promoters in the, in the country who

626
00:39:29,890 --> 00:39:31,650
didn't get bought out by.

627
00:39:33,330 --> 00:39:36,970
Enormous corporations were in D.C. because the

628
00:39:36,970 --> 00:39:40,770
bands themselves. Almost every year

629
00:39:40,770 --> 00:39:44,530
you'll see. What's your favorite club to play in America? It always gets

630
00:39:44,530 --> 00:39:48,330
voted 9:30 club in D.C. and that's because 9:30

631
00:39:48,330 --> 00:39:52,050
club is run by these independent promoters who, I mean the original 9:30, the one

632
00:39:52,050 --> 00:39:55,490
that I grew up going to in their early 90s

633
00:39:55,890 --> 00:39:59,690
was the most disgusting little shithole you've ever. Like,

634
00:39:59,690 --> 00:40:03,290
it's not the beautiful place that it is now. It was. The shows were

635
00:40:03,290 --> 00:40:07,130
absolutely magical. But, like, it was fam. It was famous for, like, if they gave

636
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:10,250
you a pizza, you had to eat it before your show because if you put

637
00:40:10,250 --> 00:40:13,610
it down in the dressing room, the rats would have eaten the whole thing by

638
00:40:13,610 --> 00:40:17,090
the time you get off stage. Like, oh, man. And there were. There were

639
00:40:17,730 --> 00:40:21,410
like columns throughout the whole thing. So there was like one

640
00:40:21,410 --> 00:40:25,190
place with. With no sight line problems in the whole club, you know. But like.

641
00:40:25,740 --> 00:40:28,860
But I can't tell you how like, you know, some of the best shows I've

642
00:40:28,860 --> 00:40:32,620
ever seen in my life were in that tiny room. And like. And their relationship

643
00:40:32,620 --> 00:40:35,500
to the. To the way they treated,

644
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:40,140
you know, the like, scream

645
00:40:40,460 --> 00:40:43,980
that Dave Grohl was playing drums for meant that, like, that

646
00:40:44,140 --> 00:40:47,660
other bands Dave Grohl might have been in had to then, like,

647
00:40:47,820 --> 00:40:51,620
had to then play 9:30. Yeah, yeah. You see what I'm saying? Like,

648
00:40:51,620 --> 00:40:54,550
yeah, we don't care that you're the Foo Fighters. You're gonna play here.

649
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:58,590
Exactly. And still, like. And D.C.

650
00:40:58,590 --> 00:41:01,350
is still largely run by those people because

651
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:06,310
that scene and it was a. But back to what it meant to a 15

652
00:41:06,310 --> 00:41:08,950
year old kid. What it meant to me was that, like,

653
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:13,350
I could sudden, like, music was suddenly a social

654
00:41:13,350 --> 00:41:17,190
activity and music was suddenly a collaborative activity and a

655
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:20,750
communal activity and a political activity. And I think

656
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:24,550
like, that music went from being

657
00:41:25,590 --> 00:41:29,430
something I listened to on my headphones while I was playing with Legos or drawing

658
00:41:29,830 --> 00:41:32,310
to something I did with my friends.

659
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:37,110
And we participated in. And by the time I was like,

660
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:40,590
let's see, by the time, I guess I must have been a sophomore in high

661
00:41:40,590 --> 00:41:44,120
school. I was 15 years old when I started a record label putting out friends,

662
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,800
fans. I mean, a record label is. That's big

663
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,280
air quotes around that. But what happens. Another awesome indie label

664
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,880
called Simple Machines, this is so awesome that they did this. They put out one

665
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,200
of the things you could buy mail order from them was for like a dollar.

666
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,600
I think it was maybe $1.50 was a pamphlet that was how to put out

667
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,440
your own seven inch. And it had. It was literally like, this is what your

668
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,520
budget, like your minimum budget is this. Don't think you can do it for less.

669
00:42:09,850 --> 00:42:12,250
You can do it for more if you want. But this is how it works.

670
00:42:12,810 --> 00:42:16,250
Here are the three pressing plants in the United States. Here are the two mastering

671
00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:19,090
plants. Here's their number here's the person you want to call it. Them, blah, blah,

672
00:42:19,090 --> 00:42:22,890
you know, just like, like, why is that? You know? Now

673
00:42:22,890 --> 00:42:26,330
you could probably get chatgpt to tell you some of the same stuff,

674
00:42:26,410 --> 00:42:29,290
but in 1990, that was like.

675
00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:34,010
Crazy. Yeah, it's like pretty much the

676
00:42:34,730 --> 00:42:37,930
exactly what to do. Here's how exactly. And it was like. And the thing is

677
00:42:37,930 --> 00:42:41,310
that like the smallest run you could do, I think was about 500, 500

678
00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:44,710
records. And you could get the price of that down to about

679
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:48,270
750 bucks. I was like, I bet I could muster up 750 bucks.

680
00:42:48,750 --> 00:42:52,270
And so I started putting out my friends, bands. And like, the records are not

681
00:42:52,910 --> 00:42:56,750
great, but like, but the, the

682
00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:59,150
key thing was that like, I just want to be part. I just wanted to.

683
00:42:59,150 --> 00:43:02,870
You're a part of the scene, right? Like, I wanted to, like, I

684
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:06,710
wanted to. Like all of a sudden I saw that, like, that the

685
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:10,510
things I was doing, like playing with Legos, drawing with

686
00:43:10,510 --> 00:43:14,150
my headphones on, like, all of that could be one thing. You could go, you

687
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:17,910
could make a 7 inch and like, you got to design the 7

688
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:21,270
inch and you got to pick the songs and your. And then that thing would

689
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:24,670
sit in a record store where other punks in D.C. would come pick it up

690
00:43:24,670 --> 00:43:28,150
and like they'd suddenly know your best friend's band, you know, and like.

691
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:32,550
And that was so magical to me

692
00:43:33,110 --> 00:43:36,690
and so exciting and that like I. By the

693
00:43:36,690 --> 00:43:40,490
time you fast forward, I don't know, six or 10 years and I'm living

694
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:44,010
in Chicago with the earliest version of OK Go.

695
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:49,130
The idea that we could put on a show was like, when you're

696
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:52,090
putting on a show, if that means you get to sneak into the Art Institute

697
00:43:53,130 --> 00:43:56,850
and print up your own four color silk screens and put

698
00:43:56,850 --> 00:44:00,570
them all over town, that's not a thing you have

699
00:44:00,570 --> 00:44:03,090
to do to get people to come to your show. That's the thing you get

700
00:44:03,090 --> 00:44:06,480
to do because like, because

701
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,120
it's because somebody has opened the door to like an art experience for you.

702
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,920
And to me those things are. I don't. Maybe the

703
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,760
line between them isn't as obvious once it's outside my head as it is

704
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,720
inside my head. But like that kind of participatory

705
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,320
culture and relationship to art,

706
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,120
like, it goes straight back to Fugazi for me. And

707
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,000
I'm very, very, very thankful for it. It. Yeah. And it's. And

708
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,680
with it's. I remember as a kid just going around San Diego and seeing

709
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,000
Post, you know, people tagging up stuff. And when I was younger, it was.

710
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,720
Obey was the big thing. Shepherd Fairy hadn't gotten to where he

711
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,040
was. He was. He was a thing. But you'd walk around town, you just start

712
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,840
seeing that Andre the Giant everywhere and all over the high school.

713
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,320
People would, like, put it up and. And then it just became this thing that

714
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,080
people knew of. Yeah. I mean, I assume you must be younger than I,

715
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,040
but, like. Yeah, no, Andre the Giant has a posse. Stickers were floating around my

716
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,880
high school in. In. In. In again, 1990. Like. And

717
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,920
I don't think Obey the company existed for another 10 years after that or something.

718
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,800
Yeah, I was. It was when I was in high school. It was the late

719
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,400
90s, early 2000s. Yes. Yeah. That started popping up.

720
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,200
And then if I'm not mistaken, there's a RISD connection there

721
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,200
too, isn't there? I'm not. I don't. There might be. I don't really know his

722
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,880
backstory. I know he was in San Diego from. For a minute or for a

723
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,080
little bit. He might have been from dc. Who knows? I mean. Yeah,

724
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:33,650
yeah. I know some kids in D.C. who, you know, who had

725
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:37,090
some relationship to it, but I have no idea if they actually were. But that

726
00:45:37,090 --> 00:45:40,850
kind of, like, underground culture that was all connected via the,

727
00:45:40,850 --> 00:45:44,610
you know, the federal mail system, you know, like, I mean,

728
00:45:44,610 --> 00:45:48,450
I was ordering 7 inches from small towns

729
00:45:48,450 --> 00:45:52,050
in middle America where, like, there was a tiny punk

730
00:45:52,050 --> 00:45:55,850
scene happening in Toledo or whatever, you know, it's like. And it was just

731
00:45:55,850 --> 00:45:58,910
awesome. And. That.

732
00:45:59,710 --> 00:46:01,790
It's weird because I think that, like,

733
00:46:03,230 --> 00:46:06,830
that's happening both more and less now. You know,

734
00:46:08,030 --> 00:46:11,830
that one. The dream of having every piece of

735
00:46:11,830 --> 00:46:15,670
music ever available at your fingertips so that you can just bathe in it

736
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:19,190
all. It's a beautiful, amazing thing to just. To be able to

737
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:22,760
discover Billie Holiday as fast as you could discover Billie Eilish's.

738
00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:26,510
Incredible, right? Like, the streaming services are amazing for.

739
00:46:26,670 --> 00:46:29,710
For that type of access, but it also, like,

740
00:46:30,670 --> 00:46:34,470
there's no bar to get over for you to. To

741
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:38,030
like. For there to be a relationship between you and that

742
00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:41,790
thing, you know, and like the 7 inches that. That

743
00:46:41,790 --> 00:46:44,430
I listened to in the early 90s.

744
00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:49,320
No. No song will ever have that same feel, that same,

745
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,200
like, personal mindness, you know,

746
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,600
that same personal, like.

747
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,320
Magic. Because it's. Because I. Because I didn't have to do it. I don't do

748
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,840
anything for it now. Like, back then I had to, like, I had to find.

749
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,480
You had to work for it. Yeah, yeah. And you discover it and like. And

750
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,480
I. And I do miss that. And. And I'M sure

751
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,240
it is.

752
00:47:16,130 --> 00:47:18,770
I'm sure it's. You know, we all know it's changed the world a lot. I

753
00:47:18,770 --> 00:47:22,370
guess. On the other hand, now

754
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:26,170
it's like. It used to be that those cult. Those. Those communities were entirely

755
00:47:26,170 --> 00:47:29,730
geographic, and now they can. Like, man, if you're. If

756
00:47:30,370 --> 00:47:33,370
you're into that one weird thing, it doesn't matter where the other people in the

757
00:47:33,370 --> 00:47:35,810
world are, like, as long as there's 10 more of them. You guys got a

758
00:47:35,810 --> 00:47:39,010
scene, you know. There'S a subreddit for you somewhere, I'm sure. Exactly.

759
00:47:40,670 --> 00:47:43,870
Yeah. That is interesting because I remember that's how I, you know, discover bands. I

760
00:47:43,870 --> 00:47:47,590
read the liner notes, read the. Who they thank, like, who produced this. And then

761
00:47:47,590 --> 00:47:51,150
you start finding all these other bands and other bands they worked with.

762
00:47:51,310 --> 00:47:54,430
And now, like you said, you can just go on Spotify and you can play

763
00:47:54,430 --> 00:47:57,910
any song ever that you'd ever want to, you know, listen. Yeah. And I just

764
00:47:57,910 --> 00:48:01,630
don't. Like. Is it.

765
00:48:01,630 --> 00:48:05,230
There's a sort of. Mythology

766
00:48:05,390 --> 00:48:09,050
to it all that gets lost because you don't like.

767
00:48:10,810 --> 00:48:14,410
Because you're not connecting the dots between. It's like you look up at the stars

768
00:48:14,410 --> 00:48:17,450
and you got it. You. You need to find shapes up there, you know, you

769
00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:21,250
need to, like, find constellations. And so you're like, wait a second. Adam Lisicky

770
00:48:21,250 --> 00:48:24,770
was the drummer in Shutterthink and he was the drummer in Java. I mean, we

771
00:48:24,770 --> 00:48:28,570
know. I can't remember, like, like, but there was like. You'd pick

772
00:48:28,570 --> 00:48:32,170
out, like, there, like Dave. Armstrong was in op,

773
00:48:32,170 --> 00:48:36,010
Ivy and Rancid and like, it's like. Exactly. Totally. Exactly.

774
00:48:36,010 --> 00:48:39,820
That's his little bro. Like, wait, Green Day is Big Brothers were all in

775
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:42,140
better band. I'm sorry. Yeah. Other bands.

776
00:48:43,660 --> 00:48:45,100
No, that just shows my age.

777
00:48:47,740 --> 00:48:51,300
I. I love Green Day. I take that back. I. But I do remember when

778
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:55,020
Green Day happened. I remember Dookie coming out and being like, that song's

779
00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:58,660
undeniably catchy. But I mean, these are just the dude's little brothers. Like, that's how

780
00:48:58,660 --> 00:49:02,380
old I. You know, like. Or

781
00:49:02,380 --> 00:49:05,980
cousins or whatever it is. But like, that. That thing that

782
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:09,980
you're finding those shapes in the stars. And now I. And now

783
00:49:10,300 --> 00:49:14,100
it's. The algorithm is like, has decided that

784
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:16,580
you like this type of thing, and that type of thing is going to feed

785
00:49:16,580 --> 00:49:20,380
you another thing kind of like it. And I don't know. I.

786
00:49:21,660 --> 00:49:24,980
I hope we. I hope we can still find the magic in all of it,

787
00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:28,700
you know, I think. I think it's there. I love what you guys are doing.

788
00:49:28,700 --> 00:49:32,340
Speaking of just the algorithm, my Instagram and everything with your guys, this

789
00:49:32,340 --> 00:49:35,580
page. I love the. Behind the. Like we did today. You kind of just

790
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:39,440
describe what's going in the video or, like, what it took to make those videos.

791
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,080
I think that's so cool. Just like that behind the scene.

792
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,680
Look at, like, this was one take or this took this many

793
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,760
people or this many hours or this long to do. It's funny because

794
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,280
those. Those little posts is sort of like.

795
00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:58,040
We'Re realizing that, like, people don't watch.

796
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,520
Social media doesn't do the same thing that.

797
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,080
That shared media does. Right.

798
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,320
When our things would go viral because of humans, because humans would be passing

799
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,080
the link around before YouTube.

800
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,760
But even with YouTube. For

801
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,120
most of our time with YouTube, it was never algorithmically

802
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,760
shared. Right. It was only. It was.

803
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,470
Humans would share that link. And so you're passing around a piece of art

804
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:35,470
and what you want your, like.

805
00:50:37,150 --> 00:50:40,710
The sort of key thing there is that you. In your

806
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:44,390
day, you experience a piece of wonder, and then you go like,

807
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:48,150
oh, my God, I really want my girlfriend to. I want my

808
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:51,990
girlfriend to have this moment of wonder also. But also I

809
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:55,750
want this moment of wonder to come from me. Yeah. Like,

810
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:59,070
I think that's why I found this. I could show it to you. Yeah. What

811
00:50:59,070 --> 00:51:02,110
worked so well was because, like, there was.

812
00:51:02,750 --> 00:51:06,510
It was like, my mom's gonna love this, you know, oh, my God,

813
00:51:06,510 --> 00:51:10,030
my friend at work loves this nerdy kind of shit. I'm gonna send this to,

814
00:51:10,030 --> 00:51:13,750
like, it was sort of like these little love notes

815
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:17,230
from people to each other to share that art. Right. And

816
00:51:17,550 --> 00:51:21,350
that doesn't happen with the algorithmic stuff because the algorithm just cares

817
00:51:21,350 --> 00:51:24,520
about whether or not it hooks your attention. Right. Yeah.

818
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,720
And doesn't care that you love it or hate it or

819
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,920
if it, like, gives you. It's. There's no valence to

820
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,720
it. Right. Like, you're never. Unless you are. You're trying

821
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,400
to whip up a frenzy for your particular

822
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,080
political point of view. You're never going to share something with.

823
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,760
With your, you know, bandmate or your

824
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,280
boyfriend or whatever, where you're like, this is going to really piss him off.

825
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,100
But the algorithm is perfectly happ to piss you off. It wants to piss you

826
00:51:57,100 --> 00:52:00,660
off. As long as you're going to keep watching. Right. Stick around. Exactly.

827
00:52:01,060 --> 00:52:04,900
And so that's like the. When it used to

828
00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:08,740
be that we would. That our videos would go viral

829
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:12,420
is because people were like, I love this feeling and I want someone

830
00:52:12,420 --> 00:52:16,100
else to love. I want to share this love. But, like, the algorithm

831
00:52:16,340 --> 00:52:19,860
doesn't care about you loving the feeling. It just cares about you addicted to the

832
00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:23,470
feeling. And that's totally a separate thing. So like, but what it

833
00:52:23,470 --> 00:52:27,190
will. But what happens with those little behind the scenes videos is like

834
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:31,230
people that's a moment of you want to keep

835
00:52:31,230 --> 00:52:34,950
reading. Right. And hopefully like

836
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:38,710
you can still experience the art a little bit. But like it

837
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:42,550
takes, but art takes you. You the viewer have

838
00:52:42,550 --> 00:52:45,590
to like go like I want an art experience.

839
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:50,870
Whereas information like this is how we made the art is

840
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:54,290
much. Will grab you much faster. Like it's like. And, and

841
00:52:54,530 --> 00:52:58,290
so I love those things. Like I love that they, that they like they

842
00:52:58,530 --> 00:53:02,170
work and they connect. But it's almost sad to me that it's like I wish

843
00:53:02,170 --> 00:53:05,650
we could put our videos just alone on social media and have them work the

844
00:53:05,650 --> 00:53:09,330
way they used to on YouTube. But sure it's. But it's not how people

845
00:53:09,330 --> 00:53:12,330
do it. Right? It's like the same way that a song just doesn't. You can

846
00:53:12,330 --> 00:53:15,530
you imagine just putting a song on social media and being expecting people to just

847
00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:18,530
like listen, here it is, here it is.

848
00:53:20,130 --> 00:53:23,090
We have a song. Now just, just close your eyes, you know.

849
00:53:23,650 --> 00:53:27,100
Sure. But it's when I, when I see your posts and stuff, it's like

850
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:30,820
I've experienced the art years ago when I saw the video and then

851
00:53:30,820 --> 00:53:33,940
it's like re seeing it again and then kind of re falling in love with

852
00:53:33,940 --> 00:53:37,660
it and really seeing how it was like the airplane video

853
00:53:37,660 --> 00:53:40,739
when you guys are doing the flips. Like I love that behind the scenes one

854
00:53:40,739 --> 00:53:43,540
because I was like this is so wild that you were able to figure this

855
00:53:43,540 --> 00:53:47,340
out. They're fun projects, really fun. And

856
00:53:47,340 --> 00:53:50,820
you know, I'll take a totally different left turn here. Like, you know what's also

857
00:53:50,820 --> 00:53:54,430
awesome about the videos is they are from. From the perspective of

858
00:53:55,310 --> 00:53:59,070
a grown ass man. It

859
00:53:59,390 --> 00:54:02,670
is so it's really nice a left foot,

860
00:54:03,150 --> 00:54:06,590
right foot in terms of like art

861
00:54:06,750 --> 00:54:10,270
and career and life to be able to work in these big

862
00:54:10,270 --> 00:54:13,710
groups of insane nerds for a few months

863
00:54:14,350 --> 00:54:17,950
at a time and then also work in this really small

864
00:54:17,950 --> 00:54:21,610
group of, of intense friends. Right.

865
00:54:21,610 --> 00:54:25,250
Like not. And the insane nerds are every

866
00:54:25,250 --> 00:54:28,610
bit as close of friends. I don't mean it but like

867
00:54:28,930 --> 00:54:32,210
the. Super smart people that are coming up with the robotics behind like

868
00:54:32,930 --> 00:54:36,490
jumping that. While we're in Budapest in a train station

869
00:54:36,490 --> 00:54:40,130
working on, on, on. On the robot and, and

870
00:54:41,250 --> 00:54:45,050
mirror video, we are in a big, big group

871
00:54:45,050 --> 00:54:48,710
of people who are, who like have. There

872
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:52,030
was people from seven different countries there. There were like

873
00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:56,030
a whole Different. I think we heard five different languages being spoken. There's,

874
00:54:56,030 --> 00:54:59,870
like, so many different expertises and people and

875
00:55:00,110 --> 00:55:03,750
interesting backgrounds, and you just, like, feel your life and

876
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:07,390
your horizons getting bigger and wider. And,

877
00:55:08,030 --> 00:55:11,630
like, that's a very good antidote to the thing that often happens in.

878
00:55:13,180 --> 00:55:16,900
Pop music, which is that, like, you're stuck in a room with four people who

879
00:55:16,900 --> 00:55:20,460
are just like you, and you're sick of playing the same songs every night,

880
00:55:20,460 --> 00:55:22,860
worse, you're stuck in a van or a bus with those people.

881
00:55:34,940 --> 00:55:37,820
These giant projects where it's like, when we're done, we're very

882
00:55:38,460 --> 00:55:42,040
happy to get back in the studio and just be like. Like, let's just us.

883
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,080
Us four just, like, dick around with

884
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,840
keyboards until we get a hook we, like, you know? Yeah. But

885
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,280
after a while of that, it's, like, really nice to be, like, you know, it'll

886
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,120
be awesome. Like, we're gonna take over this public library

887
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,320
and do an insane big art project in it, you know, whatever the thing is,

888
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,840
you know? Yeah. I love that. Well, I appreciate your time,

889
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,320
Damian. Thank you, man, so much for. For doing this. I've never seen your band

890
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,160
live. I'm really excited. I'm gonna go see you at the Brooklyn bowl here in

891
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,880
Nashville. Oh, awesome. Great. Yeah, I'm really excited

892
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,440
about that. And, yeah, and the EP's

893
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,160
amazing. And I just have one more question for you. I want to know if

894
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,080
you have any advice for aspiring artists.

895
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:29,520
Do the thing that.

896
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,040
Only you can do. That is an

897
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,880
incredibly difficult piece of advice to follow because it's very hard to know what the

898
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,210
only is thing you can do it. But

899
00:56:42,570 --> 00:56:46,250
doing what you think other people want you to do

900
00:56:47,370 --> 00:56:51,010
is the surest road to mediocrity and

901
00:56:51,010 --> 00:56:54,090
failure. You know, like, now

902
00:56:54,810 --> 00:56:58,170
you don't get to decide if your stuff is successful. Like,

903
00:56:59,130 --> 00:57:02,890
and making a career out of it is

904
00:57:02,890 --> 00:57:06,340
an incredibly, incredibly long shot for anyone. But

905
00:57:06,980 --> 00:57:10,700
the only people who ever get to be in that category are people who are

906
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:14,460
true to the thing that they do. Right? And you can look back

907
00:57:14,460 --> 00:57:18,220
later and realize that only they could have done

908
00:57:18,220 --> 00:57:20,740
that in the moment. You may not always

909
00:57:22,180 --> 00:57:25,460
know because you can't tell what's coming from the outside.

910
00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:30,260
You get excited about a thousand things. Are you excited

911
00:57:30,260 --> 00:57:33,140
about them because you just heard someone else do them really well and you wish

912
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:36,830
you had done that, or because it's, like, popping right out of

913
00:57:36,830 --> 00:57:37,750
you. But.

914
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:43,910
That, like, it's back to that.

915
00:57:46,070 --> 00:57:49,190
Like, incredibly small.

916
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:54,790
And vital moment when you as a

917
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:58,070
human are. Relating

918
00:57:58,790 --> 00:58:01,680
magically to a set of sounds or a set of.

919
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,400
Colors or a set of whatever it is, right? Like somehow one plus

920
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,160
one just turned into 500 in your soul. And that only happened for you when

921
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,560
you played those chords on the piano and, like, it sounded perfectly magical

922
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,000
and something was different somehow that was better than just a

923
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,760
chord progression. Only that only happened in you. And

924
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,370
if you can like, be. Like 100%

925
00:58:26,370 --> 00:58:29,930
honest with yourself about that relationship and only

926
00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:34,570
making things that move you inside, eventually you will be doing the thing

927
00:58:34,570 --> 00:58:38,250
that only you can do. But if you try, like, but if you try

928
00:58:38,250 --> 00:58:41,210
along the way to do the things you think you're supposed to do, you will

929
00:58:41,210 --> 00:58:42,250
inevitably fail.

930
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,080
Bringin it Backwards, bringin it Backward,

931
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,760
bringin it Backward, bring it backward,

932
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,280
bring it back.