BiB: Blondestandard - “From Hodgkin's Lymphoma Diagnosis to Rock Reinvention— Caroline Gets Real

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What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast

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where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal

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stories of how they achieve stardom. On this

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episode, we had a chance to hang out with Caroline, AKA

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Blonde Standard, over Zoom video.

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This is actually the second time we had Caroline on the podcast,

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the very first time she had yet to release her debut

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single, Blue Eyes, which was back in 2022.

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So we had a chance to really catch up with Caroline and

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see what she's been up to over the last two, three years.

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It was a fantastic conversation. We recapped our first

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interview a little bit, and we did find out that

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Caroline was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma

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just prior to graduating from college, or she had just graduated from college and she

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was in her last semester last time we spoke. So there was kind of,

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you know, a couple years there where she was getting healthy

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and working on new music and new art. But she's been doing great, which is

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awesome. She talked about releasing California Dreams and then the first

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song, Freaking out was kind of the first song

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she released after she started to write and

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produce more music again once she started feeling healthy enough. She talks

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about her song Ruin My Day and all about the most recent

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record, which is called Arms of Another. And she hints

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at a podcast that she has coming out as well. You can watch our

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interview with Caroline on our Facebook page and YouTube channel

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at bringing it Backwards, it would be amazing if you subscribe to our

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channel like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter

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if you rate and review us there as well. It helps us out

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tremendously. We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and

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subscribe to our podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're

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bringing. It backwards with Blonde Standard.

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Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bring it backwards.

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Bring it backwards. Hello.

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Hey, Carolyn. How are you? Good. Long time no see.

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I know. It's been almost two years, I think, or getting on

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there three now. Really? Oh, my God. I was, like,

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in my USC prime when we last spoke.

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Yeah, you had. I don't even think you had released Blue Eyes. It was, like,

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about to come out. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

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Wow. I know. I'm excited to kind of see what's

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gone on since. I know you've released a handful of songs, so that's cool.

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I have indeed, very Very cool. Well, it's so great to

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see you again. Thank you again for doing this. Yeah. I'm so excited. I

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love. I mean, I've now been following the podcast since I've been

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on, and. Awesome. Great to be

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able to, like, hear artist stories and

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excited to share the updates. I

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appreciate that. That means a lot. Thank you so much. Course.

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For actually checking it out. Yeah. So. Well, I mean,

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we've already got your story, like, up to a point before, but let's just.

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If you don't mind, just. Yes. Quickly recapping

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from before, just so you're born and raised in L. A.

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Yes. Came up with, you know, creative

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family in a way. I mean, your mom's producer, and I know that

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that was a part of your life growing up, but you really didn't start showing

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people your music or any of that until

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it was, like, a few years prior to when we spoke. Right. Maybe a couple

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years. Like, Right. Yeah. I think, like, right when Covid hit,

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I mean, it might have been, like, two months before the world lockdown.

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I was with a producer friend of mine, and I just kind of jokingly was

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like, can I record a song? And

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it's been something I've loved, but it was, like, something that everyone, like, turned their

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head and they're like, what? Right line? I'm like, yeah,

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Caroline. Hey. Yeah. Because you always had the

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blonde standard, like, brand. Right. But it was under

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more graphic design. Things you're doing. You were working with people

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in music or in. With bands and stuff. Right. Kind of

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side. Yeah. I think that's why it was harder for me

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was like, the boundary of, like, oh, I'm, like, thinking of managing

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artists, and I'm figuring out where I belong in the music industry.

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I've since kind of figured that out. But

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I was like, does this make sense for me to be able to, like,

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be an artist and also work with artists? And that kind of was like a

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big no no to people. And,

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yeah. I think I was kind of just becoming more and more

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inspired every time I got in a studio session with another artist. And I, like,

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had all these ideas and, like, you know, all this stuff. And I

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think, like, it kind of came to a head when Covid hit and

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people were very supportive of my artistic journey.

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And then we kind of just, like, did it.

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Yeah. You wrote, like, a whole ep, right? In, like, a short period of time.

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Yeah, yeah. I was just like, once I finished a

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song, we went to the next one. I think in

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hindsight, I was really just, like, trying to

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get all of the creative juices that had been built up for so long

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out and try to figure out, like, how do you write a song and

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what does it mean to produce a song from start to finish? And

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what are my influences as an artist? Because I listened to everything

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and I also had like, this music blog at the same time

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where I was also interviewing artists and like, trying to learn about their

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stories. So it was definitely this kind of period

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of time for me where I was really kind of like,

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just learning. And I think this past

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year, specifically, like since like Sept.

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Maybe literally this past year, like September of like last year,

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I really started honing into my

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own sound to a point where like, every time we finish the song,

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we're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was better than the last one. Like, we're.

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We're going somewhere with this. Yeah, you feel like it's moving forward,

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not like, oh, we had this great song and we. I can't capture that again,

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like, what's going on? Right, right. We're like, okay, this all makes sense together.

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Everything is like, in the same world. Everything is the same

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kind of. Yeah, yeah. So I love that.

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Well, I. I love what you're doing. I mean, like I said before, we. You

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only had the one song, and I don't think it was even like, out to

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like, the public at the point when we talked.

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So crazy. Yeah, I think, like, yeah, it's. It's

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very interesting. Just kind of like reflecting on that time. And also just the

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sound itself. Like, I. I was working around

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a lot of like, more like electronic producers and was around kind of that

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energy. And so you can hear in that it has this kind

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of like bubblegum pop influence to it.

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Whereas now I think it's much more kind of like

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alternative rock, modern rock focus. Yeah, I was

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going to say it changed quite a bit, at least, you know, over the past

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couple of years. But coincidentally, I mean, I was like in these studio sessions being

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like, let's make a rock song. Except, like, when you don't have that chip,

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it's like I'm like, okay, I don't know what you're talking about, but, like, we

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can try our best to make a rock song. Right? So now

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we've like, kind of encapsulated that and I've found people that I

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work so well with. Are

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you working with different people than that producer that you initially started working

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with, or are you still with that person? I.

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We're still great friends, I think. You know,

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it's. It's actually Interesting, because a lot of the producers that I work with are

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artists and don't really produce for other artists. Or at least that's why I

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think. You were saying that in the beginning. Yeah. He was, like, just an artist

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and was like, oh, sure. I guess I'll. It never worked. It's kind of a

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favor, right? Yeah, it was like, a favor. Yeah. But now I

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have people that are like, they're in it just as much as I am. And

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I think that's kind of my goal is, like, I'm the one singing, but, like,

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this is all our song, you know, I want everyone to feel like we're making

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something and we're putting something out and, like, hopefully resonating

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with someone. And a lot of it comes from, like,

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lyrics, for me, at least, which I've noticed a lot of

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people don't really listen to lyrics. Yeah. Which is wild because

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that's, like, really. I mean, hooks and. And the,

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you know, catchy pieces of it are like, obviously, like, oh, what is that? You

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know, kind of intriguing. Right. But my favorite songs are the ones where

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you can relate deeply to what the person's saying. Right. Yeah.

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No, I mean, the. The lyrics are like, for me, I'm like, that's everything.

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That's why the song has this, like, power to it. And I'm like,

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oh, you just know the rhythm or the melody, but you don't know what I'm

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saying. So, I mean, I just leave it. To leave it to the audience. I

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think the goal is, like, a lot of my

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music has these, like, kind of two halves to it. One is this kind

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of, like, outward message, which is like, oh, this sounds like a love song.

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And that actually hasn't changed since the beginning of, you know, the first

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two singles I released. And it has this kind of,

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like, outward sweep, you know, song. And you hear the love song

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or you hear the whatever side to it, and then there's this kind of, like,

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deeper, like, theme or mess

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that I'm trying to get across. But I also kind of

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understand music and what's marketable and what people can resonate with

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more. And so, yeah, I kind of like

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to have the two kind of the deeper meaning and then the

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kind of, like, surface level. Like, this is kind of what it feels

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like or sounds like, but it's not that at all, which is. Right, right, right.

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Yeah. What all of my art has always been. Oh, okay. Yeah.

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Because you used to do. I. I know the graphic stuff a lot. Right. That's

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really where it kind of started. Yeah. And even in the beginning when I was

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asking you about Blue Eyes, you said that you had somebody

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else do the COVID art. Because I was curious. Yeah, you were gonna do it.

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And you said, no. I kind of want to get someone else's perspective of what

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they. How they feel about the song or what. What they create off of

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what I've created instead of just doing everything. Yeah.

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And honestly, like, that hasn't changed. I mean,

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I did the COVID art for freaking

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out and ruin my day, and I had friends of mine do, like the

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text. But I'm, like, a very collaborative person. And I also

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just think, like, I, as an artist, I have

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such a hard time. Like, even when I moved into my

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house, I was like, okay, I can't put art on the wall because it's just

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too much pressure. And I think it'll come to me in time. It

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wasn't this instantaneous thing for me. And I think with the COVID art,

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it's the same thing. I just put way too much pressure

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on it. And so for me, it's so much easier to just kind of.

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Either it is kind of an in the moment thing for me, and I'm like,

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oh, that. I really feel good about that. Let's just go with it. Or it'll

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just kind of spin out of control and take way too long.

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So I've just decided to work with other artists. I also just love it.

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And, yeah, I think it kind of just proves the point

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that, like, I've kind of fizzled out of being a visual artist, and now I'm

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kind of, like, speaking through music. And I

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think it's kind of just a testament to being an artist as well.

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Just the kind of aspect of, like, yeah, you can go from

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being a graphic artist or a painter or a poet, and now

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you can be a musician, and then you can be a filmmaker. And, you know,

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you can have the same kind of themes and messages throughout your art, but it

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can kind of take different, you know. Yeah, no,

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yeah. 100%. I was gonna say, like. I mean, I guess, like, Halsey would

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be a good example. Like, she's a painter, but also an incredible

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artist. Right. Right in the way where she does

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paintings and. But it's not something that solely. She'll go

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out and make a bunch of paintings and do an exhibit and sell

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it or, you know, whatever. It's. It's more like just something else. But,

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like, you are awesome at doing the graphic things, but

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you want to focus and songwriting. So you're like, well, I'm Gonna do the songwriting.

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Yeah. I think it's just transformed. Like, I. It's

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weird because that. That inspiration used to be so strong. Like, oh, my

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gosh, I just watched this, like, insane film, or I just read

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this crazy book or I heard this story and, like, I want to make

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something out of it. And now that's kind of, for me,

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music. And so it's like, the same itch, but just

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in a different form. And I think that, like, yeah, it's.

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It's really kind of interesting how, like, just as, like, an artist of,

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like, very different mediums, I kind of can, like, feel

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that, like, come out in different ways. And you kind of studied

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that, right? At usc. Wasn't your. Your mage or something

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with, like. Yeah, like, story lines?

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Right. Wasn't it? Yeah. Super ironic that, like, I ended up.

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Well, I was actually supposed to go for, like, international affairs,

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but that clearly. Oh, is that, like, politics?

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That was just because I, like, spent my whole high school experience doing,

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like, all these politically charged. Yeah. Ships and, like, I

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think interesting, especially in la, like,

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the whole, like, thing is they train you to, like,

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you apply in based off of the human being that you've become.

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And so that's where I ended up. But I was like, okay, this. This major's

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cool. It's. There's no one kind of, like, slapping you on the

225
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wrist about what's right and wrong. And I think for me, like,

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I have always just created art for, you know,

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in what, like, feels right to me in the moment. Like, I've never been one

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to be like, let's make this. Because everyone's gonna like that.

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I'm like, let's make this because it feels right for me, and if it resonates

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with people, like, that's the goal. But

231
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I'm kind of less of like, let's. Let's go

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viral, and I'm more like, let's. Let's, like, tap into

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someone's feelings and let's, like, have the light bulb go off like it did for

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me when I was 16 years old or 17 years old, trying to,

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like, find myself. So I love that. Yeah. Because out of

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all. I mean, a majority of artists that I've spoke to all

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have a story with, you know, the moment that my video

238
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went viral is when I did it. You know, I was in my

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hotel room and I just turned the camera on and played this one song or.

240
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Yeah. But then they had spent, you know, six months

241
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prior trying to make everything look exactly how they feel. Like

242
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people will perceive it in A way. It's like, once you start,

243
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stop trying and just be, like, totally authentic. That's when it. People,

244
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you know, will gravitate toward it and latch on to it. It's Right. I can

245
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also feel that, you know, and, like, I.

246
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I don't like pushing this, like, creativity. It's like, I

247
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only do it when it feels kind of organic and.

248
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Right. I just actually did a

249
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writing camp last weekend, and it

250
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was kind of just centered around, like, let's create music. And I took a few

251
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days off work, and I had a few producers come out, and

252
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I. There were moments where I was like, ooh. I just don't. I don't feel

253
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inspired right now. So I'd, like, go for a walk or I'd read a book

254
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or I'd do, you know, to, like, kind of re.

255
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You know, like, spark my mind. But for me,

256
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yeah, it's not like, let's, like, try to take

257
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all the creativity out of me right now and put it on a piece of

258
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paper. I'm like, oh, I can't do that. So, yeah, it was a good learning

259
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lesson, but we did make a lot of great stuff, too, so

260
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that's awesome. You were doing

261
00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:20,710
stuff in the sync world, I believe, also. Yes.

262
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Are you still doing that or. No? Yeah. So I. In

263
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my little, like, quest to figure out what I want to do in the music

264
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industry, I kind of figured out that it is

265
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less about the music business for me and more about

266
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the intersection between music and film.

267
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And I think that's part of the reason why I started this

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music blog was this kind of interest in kind of

269
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shining a light on other artists and also, like, trying to have

270
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their music heard. But a lot of that came from my interest as a kid

271
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watching TV and film and seeing these, like, moments

272
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where a song comes on and it, like, stays with you.

273
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And so I got really into music supervision, and I've been doing that

274
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freelance supervising, and then I'm also working in music licensing.

275
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And it's really, really cool. I think it, like,

276
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you know, kind of hones into, like, my creativity, but also, like,

277
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the kind of entrepreneurial business side I have.

278
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And, yeah, it's. It's great. It's. It's a really awesome industry. And I

279
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think it's also so important for musicians. Oh,

280
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yeah. I mean, it's like shows like Grey's Anatomy. Like Broke

281
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Bands. Yeah, no, exactly. Like, their

282
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soundtrack, you know what I mean? It's insane. And also just meeting

283
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those people that have, like, completely, like,

284
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changed the industry. I mean, Those, those needle drops are like

285
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make or break for the business and make or break for

286
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people's careers and also just like creating moments and

287
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then on top of it they're also creating these huge viral moments like bringing

288
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back an artist's career from the 90s. Right,

289
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right. I'm like this is insane. And like obviously

290
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:12,010
half of the the world is like what is this? These like

291
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15 year old kids are listening to Kate Bush. You know, I was just gonna

292
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say Kate Bush. Or like what's nuts is I have an 8 year old son

293
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and he watches that Skibidi toilet thing on YouTube

294
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and yeah, which is like the. I. It's the most

295
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:31,330
ridiculous thing ever. But it's got so many views and.

296
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But anyway like his favorite band legit is Tear

297
00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:38,610
Shafir. That's insane because of it. Because

298
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:42,310
they, you know, just the music they always use are

299
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using all these like cool bands from the 80s, like

300
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New Order or stuff like that. And

301
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so he's like so about Tears. For Fears and he's like this eight year

302
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:57,310
old new wave like 80s kid, seriously. And so like then

303
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I'll play in bands, I'm like oh, what do you think about this? And I'll

304
00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:03,750
play him like Joy Division or something and he'll like the song, oh, this is

305
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:06,460
cool. You know, and then we'll like put on Split. But he has no idea

306
00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:09,740
what I'm doing. He just knows that I'm like, oh, I think maybe you'll like

307
00:19:09,740 --> 00:19:13,300
this. But it's just based off that genre that he's was not

308
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really cool. Like that's part of like the thing for me and I

309
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think like, yeah, I mean it's just so incredible

310
00:19:20,860 --> 00:19:24,540
and like just on top of it. I was at the, the

311
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Gilded Music Supervisors Awards this past year

312
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,860
and they had my like biggest musical

313
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inspiration, Mark Ronson, like presenting an

314
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award and talking about how insanely important the business

315
00:19:39,180 --> 00:19:42,460
has been for his career. And same with Billie Eilish

316
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and I'm like this is it. Like these, these

317
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,980
usages were kind of a big, big piece of these like

318
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:54,220
the top of the top, you know, and like just seeing that and like

319
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it's, it's so cool and just the process and you know it

320
00:19:58,540 --> 00:20:01,860
really at the end of the day is only like 20 creative. But

321
00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:06,100
it's so important. It's so important. Yeah. I

322
00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:09,460
do remember you talking about like loving to discover music

323
00:20:09,780 --> 00:20:13,580
like growing up and like with SoundCloud. I think you Doja Cat

324
00:20:13,580 --> 00:20:16,340
was an example you gave. Oh my God. You like listen to it when you're

325
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:19,700
in high school and then it like yeah, no, it's

326
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:23,340
insanely massive now. But like all those are. A lot of those

327
00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:26,860
artists were like, like even like Kay Trinada, like you know, it

328
00:20:26,860 --> 00:20:30,420
flume. Like these people were like just posting Demos

329
00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:34,100
on, on SoundCloud and like it was clearly hitting

330
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the random like 16 year old kid on her

331
00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:41,260
school bus ride from Bel Air to wherever.

332
00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:45,100
AKA yeah. Yeah. And like yeah. It's so

333
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,660
crazy. So crazy. I like went back just out of

334
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:52,220
curiosity to see like what my first ever like

335
00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:55,870
was and it was this song by Chrome Sparks and

336
00:20:55,870 --> 00:20:59,350
he's like producing for a bunch of people now and like it's just

337
00:20:59,350 --> 00:21:03,070
so cool to see just like how these people's careers have changed over

338
00:21:03,070 --> 00:21:06,910
time. Yeah, that's what I probably told you this last time.

339
00:21:06,910 --> 00:21:10,230
But that's what drew me. I was on the radio for a long time like

340
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:14,030
in San Diego and, and San Francisco and that's what

341
00:21:14,030 --> 00:21:17,510
drew it to me. It was like meeting people that have like played this band

342
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:20,950
for the first time and then it became like, you know, and I had a

343
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:23,790
moment like that with that band, the Struts. I got to play their song for

344
00:21:23,790 --> 00:21:27,100
the first time. I just kept playing it on my show and then you know,

345
00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:30,740
that could have been me song became huge and ballsy.

346
00:21:30,740 --> 00:21:34,460
Covered it in like a. And like sing two and like it was just

347
00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:37,580
like cool to be part of this moment with this band that you know,

348
00:21:37,980 --> 00:21:41,580
ended up getting big, but it's so few and far between

349
00:21:41,660 --> 00:21:44,700
because there's so many artists that you'll play once and think that they're gonna do

350
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:48,420
something and then it just never happens. Right? Yeah, no,

351
00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:52,100
I mean I think that it definitely is just.

352
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:55,860
Just shows me like kind of also just stepping outside of like me as

353
00:21:55,860 --> 00:21:59,680
an artist and kind of rew really looking at it from a creative

354
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,440
perspective of like what would, what would work in this moment. And also kind

355
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,040
of like the biggest thing is like working with a director and like trying to

356
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,080
like bring their vision to life too.

357
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,239
So yeah, it's really cool and it's really important and I think a lot of

358
00:22:14,239 --> 00:22:17,720
artists are kind of realizing outside of the one

359
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,160
hit viral video like

360
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,400
that getting the usage is the thing that can actually

361
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,200
bring them on the back end the royalties and then on

362
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,940
the kind of front facing and like the fans and

363
00:22:32,940 --> 00:22:35,460
the tickets. Right, Exactly.

364
00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:40,260
So yeah, I mean it's, it's been really cool and I think like, you know,

365
00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:43,140
the, the biggest thing for me is just the fact that it's like been such

366
00:22:43,140 --> 00:22:46,500
a passion for me and like realizing that it's a real job.

367
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:51,220
You have to be a taste maker, right? You could, right? Yeah. And that's kind

368
00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:54,820
of always been my thing. And I think with my music, like I.

369
00:22:56,420 --> 00:22:59,940
I make what I think sounds cool and what I would listen to and like

370
00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:03,660
kind of talk about the important lessons and things that I'm

371
00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:07,220
figuring out, you know, as a 24 year old girl. And

372
00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:11,100
also just like being a storyteller, some of the stories

373
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,900
are. Come from somewhere in here and like this could

374
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,660
be such a cool movie or like, let's write it into

375
00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:22,340
a song. Like, why not? But it all comes

376
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:26,150
from this kind of visual standpoint of like. Yeah,

377
00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:29,870
I can kind of like visualize it as if I'm like watching a movie

378
00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:33,230
and I. That's kind of where I realized the supervision stuff makes sense for me

379
00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:36,310
is like, even my songwriting comes from this like visual

380
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:39,750
storytelling aspect too. So.

381
00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:43,990
Love it. Yeah. So obviously Blue Eyes was the song that you

382
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:47,670
had at the time and you've put out 1, 2, 3, like

383
00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:51,510
four other additional ones. So you put out California Dreams.

384
00:23:51,670 --> 00:23:54,970
Freaking out ruin my day in arms of another

385
00:23:55,690 --> 00:23:59,530
so kind of tell me. Because basically when we left off the conversation was Blue

386
00:23:59,530 --> 00:24:03,330
Eyes was about to come out. So I know that you had songs that

387
00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:07,090
you've written during COVID You said you had about an EP worth of

388
00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:10,930
songs and you were excited about putting out the new music. Did

389
00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:14,570
that all kind of go as planned or did everything

390
00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:18,770
shift and are these totally brand new songs or. Yeah,

391
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:22,490
like. Yeah, I guess kind of pick. Pick up where we left off in a

392
00:24:22,490 --> 00:24:26,050
way. So I think a big lesson I've

393
00:24:26,050 --> 00:24:29,610
learned between now and when we spoke is that

394
00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:34,010
things can kind of come out of left field. Things you don't expect to happen

395
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:37,370
and you kind of just have to like show up and deal with them. And

396
00:24:37,530 --> 00:24:41,250
for me, I was like, I think I released the

397
00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:45,090
song in January 2021 and then I released California Dreams

398
00:24:45,090 --> 00:24:48,420
in March. And then I

399
00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:52,660
was thrown into like, okay, I'm graduating in three months, so I need to figure

400
00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:55,940
out my school stuff and get it done and then I can keep releasing music.

401
00:24:55,940 --> 00:24:59,580
My goal was just to like literally just keep releasing and keep

402
00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:02,860
doing it. And I think, yeah,

403
00:25:02,860 --> 00:25:06,420
basically. Long story short, I'm this extremely like,

404
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:10,380
I. I've dealt with anxiety and OCD like my whole life and I've talked about

405
00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:14,100
it a lot in kind of like press interviews. And I think a lot of

406
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:17,640
it kind of. You can hear it in the lyrics in my music and talk

407
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,600
about it on social media. But,

408
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,600
like, right after graduating from college, I basically found this

409
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,320
bump above my collarbone and was like, that's not supposed to be there.

410
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,400
So I went to the doctor, and I was diagnosed with

411
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,160
Hodgkin's lymphoma. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

412
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,760
It's so insane to even say out loud. And I went through.

413
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,000
I had chemotherapy, and I went through the whole thing, and

414
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,820
I. Yeah, I mean, like, every part of me, like, I basically kind of,

415
00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:53,260
like, had to really look inward, and this

416
00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:57,540
very. Grew up in la, had a very

417
00:25:57,540 --> 00:26:00,940
kind of, I guess you could say

418
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:05,900
the life that you expect, the kind of person

419
00:26:05,980 --> 00:26:09,820
you don't expect this to happen to. And so

420
00:26:09,820 --> 00:26:13,340
I kind of accredit my totally being overly

421
00:26:13,340 --> 00:26:17,140
OCD and anxious to figuring this out and being like, okay, cool. You can love

422
00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:20,930
those things about yourself. And, yeah, I mean, I've

423
00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:24,610
learned a lot. And I. During that whole process, I

424
00:26:24,930 --> 00:26:28,690
was accepted into Stargate's online

425
00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:32,970
school, like, completely randomly forgot I'd applied to it.

426
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:36,650
And, like, right when I started treatments, I was accepted to

427
00:26:36,650 --> 00:26:40,330
that program. So I was making music and writing with people

428
00:26:40,330 --> 00:26:44,130
all over the world every other week. So I kept

429
00:26:44,130 --> 00:26:47,810
doing the music through everything. But I think for me, as an artist, I

430
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:51,510
kind of, like, my perspective really changed online. Like, what's the

431
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:55,310
goal here? What kind of messages do

432
00:26:55,310 --> 00:26:59,070
you want to be saying? And, you know, also, just, like,

433
00:26:59,390 --> 00:27:02,670
how can I make an impact? That's kind of, like, my big thing.

434
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:06,629
And I think, yeah, the music

435
00:27:06,629 --> 00:27:10,470
has shifted a lot, and I think that's because it's kind

436
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:14,110
of gone in the direction of, like, where I really am passionate.

437
00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:17,990
And also my work, too. I mean, I spent that period of time,

438
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:21,590
too, like, watching a lot of TV and, like, doing a lot of research on

439
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:24,470
sync. And also, like, in these

440
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:29,030
online sessions with people all over the world and, like, them

441
00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:32,789
talking about the importance of sync for their careers. And so it kind

442
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:36,590
of was this big moment of really looking in

443
00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:40,390
the mirror. And I think I'm definitely, like, still the same person I was

444
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:44,310
before, but now I kind of have this, like, extra layer of, like,

445
00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:49,190
you know, backbone and strength and

446
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:52,990
bravery and resilience that, like, now I kind of bring into

447
00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:56,790
my art. And. Yeah, I've been healthy

448
00:27:56,790 --> 00:28:00,110
for two years. Oh, wow. Okay. I was gonna ask. That's amazing.

449
00:28:00,110 --> 00:28:03,670
Congratulations. Yeah, but, yeah, it's this kind of like,

450
00:28:03,670 --> 00:28:07,430
totally crazy, unexpected thing. And so I kind of came

451
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:10,870
back with the song freaking out, and that was the song that I was like,

452
00:28:11,820 --> 00:28:15,020
this is not only is like the. The

453
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:19,660
title super ironic because I'm a freaker outer,

454
00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:23,980
but. And everyone would understand that, especially

455
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:27,860
with that news, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think for

456
00:28:27,860 --> 00:28:31,420
me, like, the. Yeah, the song itself

457
00:28:31,420 --> 00:28:33,420
is. Is just kind of very,

458
00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:38,100
you know, it kind of has to just do with, like, community. And a lot

459
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:41,940
of my music has to do with, like, community and not letting people, I mean,

460
00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:45,560
ruin my kind of self explanatory. It's like not letting the little things

461
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,920
get to you and not letting those people, you know, the

462
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,400
meaningless chatter get in your way.

463
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,600
And. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot kind of

464
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,040
more, I guess, strength and valor

465
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,600
in my music now. And I think that's kind of why I went rock. Not

466
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,200
only is it like my, like, thing, but I think that,

467
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,920
like, it also kind of has the sonic kind of

468
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,160
theme to it, meaning because of me.

469
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:18,770
So, yeah, I did have this, like, hiatus, but it kind of wasn't, you know,

470
00:29:18,770 --> 00:29:22,010
it was one of those things where life was like, okay, time to shift our.

471
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:25,730
Right. Yeah. It wasn't like, oh, I decided to go do this for. Yeah,

472
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:29,529
it's like you literally got, you know, dealt this hand that you

473
00:29:29,529 --> 00:29:33,170
couldn't, you know, not deal with. Right. And I think for

474
00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:36,770
me, like, I was 22 years old. Like, I had a

475
00:29:36,770 --> 00:29:39,580
job lined up. Like, I was literally about to go. Like,

476
00:29:40,770 --> 00:29:44,290
I actually did start working full time. Like, I had a job, like,

477
00:29:44,290 --> 00:29:47,970
literally a job offer right out of college. And

478
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:52,770
yeah, I mean, sometimes that happens and you just gotta, like, show up.

479
00:29:52,770 --> 00:29:55,889
And I think for me, like, I was lucky enough to be able to, like,

480
00:29:55,889 --> 00:29:59,690
use art as an outlet and really kind of

481
00:29:59,690 --> 00:30:03,490
focus that time on, like, what is important to you and, like,

482
00:30:03,890 --> 00:30:07,300
what. What matters to you and how can you make that happen. And like,

483
00:30:07,610 --> 00:30:11,370
literally within four months of, like, finishing treatments, I was like, already back

484
00:30:11,370 --> 00:30:14,930
at work and like, damn. So it's like. It's so

485
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:18,170
crazy. But yeah, and I.

486
00:30:19,690 --> 00:30:23,290
Some other, like, kind of exciting news is about. I want to say,

487
00:30:23,290 --> 00:30:26,930
like, right around the time when I, like, really kind of started finding my

488
00:30:26,930 --> 00:30:30,690
sound in September, October, I reconnected with a few

489
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:33,450
friends of mine that have a production company. And they were like,

490
00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:37,970
caroline, like, you should, you know, consider doing a podcast. And

491
00:30:37,970 --> 00:30:41,610
I thought that was kind of funny because I've never been behind the

492
00:30:41,610 --> 00:30:45,290
camera. I've never been. Or, sorry, in front of the camera. That's never been my

493
00:30:45,290 --> 00:30:49,090
thing. And like, as someone interested in film and being in post and

494
00:30:49,090 --> 00:30:52,650
like, the music side and also as an artist, like,

495
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:54,410
it was just never a thought.

496
00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:59,690
And so I've been doing that and I have this amazing

497
00:30:59,850 --> 00:31:03,370
really great kind of podcast that I've been working on that is

498
00:31:04,180 --> 00:31:07,060
really just kind of focused on sharing my story and

499
00:31:08,660 --> 00:31:12,420
so that's coming as well. Oh, wow. So you've been working on it,

500
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:16,180
but you haven't released it yet? No, no, we, we've just

501
00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:20,020
been working on it, but it's. It's

502
00:31:20,020 --> 00:31:23,780
been really very much out of

503
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:27,500
my comfort zone and something

504
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,780
that I again, like, never thought I'd do. But then, you know, I could tell

505
00:31:30,780 --> 00:31:34,380
my 18 year old self that you're, you're making music and that person would be

506
00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:37,980
like, what? So, yeah,

507
00:31:38,860 --> 00:31:41,660
it's really exciting and I think it's

508
00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:46,860
being dealt really crazy cards at such a young age.

509
00:31:47,020 --> 00:31:50,860
I think I was kind of given this opportunity to kind of

510
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:54,940
come back stronger and come back kind of more confident in myself and

511
00:31:55,180 --> 00:31:58,860
kind of start to see the importance of little things and

512
00:32:00,060 --> 00:32:03,780
less of this kind of fast paced, superficial, materialistic

513
00:32:03,780 --> 00:32:07,490
city that I've. I've known my whole life. Yeah.

514
00:32:08,530 --> 00:32:12,130
Wow. Okay, so you obviously, you get this news and

515
00:32:12,130 --> 00:32:15,650
that puts everything on hold for quite some time. Yes.

516
00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:19,850
When do you, like, are like for

517
00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:23,130
example, freaking Out? Was that a song that you had? Was that an older song?

518
00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:25,410
Or is everything that's coming out now

519
00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:30,650
written, like kind of post all of the, the treatment

520
00:32:30,650 --> 00:32:34,270
and all of that? Yeah, so actually Freaking

521
00:32:34,270 --> 00:32:38,110
out was written before. That was a

522
00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:41,830
song that I did right around the time I did

523
00:32:43,510 --> 00:32:46,470
California Dreams. I think that was gonna be the next single.

524
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:51,430
And so I just was like, I was honestly

525
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:55,030
like not even gonna put Freaking out out because I had

526
00:32:55,030 --> 00:32:58,390
this kind of like new, like I had really kind of

527
00:32:58,390 --> 00:33:01,790
focused in on like what sounds important to you

528
00:33:02,110 --> 00:33:05,790
and less about like production style and

529
00:33:05,790 --> 00:33:08,110
more like lyrically and

530
00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:13,110
just kind of like also finding my voice as a songwriter and as a singer.

531
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:16,150
And I think like, even just like looking back, like, I do think like my

532
00:33:16,150 --> 00:33:19,510
vocals have gotten stronger and just kind of like these things as an artist that

533
00:33:19,510 --> 00:33:23,270
I think the time and the energy and the hours spent, like you can

534
00:33:23,270 --> 00:33:26,830
kind of hear it. And I was like, this song,

535
00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:30,870
you know, has resonated with friends of

536
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:34,310
mine and family. And I think that like, for me I was like, okay, this

537
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:37,630
is something that I, I should put out and share with the world. And

538
00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:42,710
so yeah, it did kind of come from the, the before, but I think

539
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:46,270
the message I found in it

540
00:33:46,270 --> 00:33:49,870
after was actually different than the song that I had initially written, which is

541
00:33:49,870 --> 00:33:52,810
actually really Funny too. That's interesting. Yeah.

542
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,680
Yeah. I mean, obviously the song holds up and it's like, well, this actually,

543
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,520
I can even relate to this in a different way more so now.

544
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,840
Right? Yeah. I mean, that's the coolest part of, like,

545
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,680
you know, music is, Is the fact if people

546
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,280
actually, again, like, listen to the lyrics, which, like, I really think

547
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,080
people should do. You can find

548
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,400
so many different meanings in it. And it's the same thing as, like, going into

549
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,110
an art gallery and looking at paintings. It's like the artist has their

550
00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:28,430
idea of what they want people to see, but they don't have it plastered up

551
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:31,550
next to the art. Like, this is about this.

552
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:35,870
Yeah. They're not like, this is a tree and a cat and

553
00:34:35,870 --> 00:34:39,630
a whatever. And you're like, this is abstract. Like, I'm gonna make whatever decision

554
00:34:39,630 --> 00:34:42,790
I want. And I think that's also why I have kind of

555
00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:46,430
multifaceted, like, themes in my music, is because I want

556
00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:49,750
people to have their own way of

557
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:53,150
resonating with it. I love that. I love that you brought up Paula. Cause I

558
00:34:53,150 --> 00:34:56,230
have two of his. His friends over here. No way.

559
00:34:56,550 --> 00:35:00,350
Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah, him and Shepard

560
00:35:00,350 --> 00:35:04,070
Fairy are like, my favorite artists. But

561
00:35:04,070 --> 00:35:07,750
that's awesome. Yeah, I'm big, big, big on art. I have, like, an Andy

562
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:10,710
Warhol in here, and it's not real.

563
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:16,390
And Mark Ryden, who's also one of my favorite artists, and he did a cover

564
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:20,110
of. He did one of Tyler the Creator's covers, which is really cool,

565
00:35:20,110 --> 00:35:23,870
but he has some really cool surrealist art. Let me

566
00:35:23,870 --> 00:35:27,390
look them up, because I might know the name sounds familiar. What is it? Tyler,

567
00:35:27,550 --> 00:35:31,070
Mark Ryden. His

568
00:35:31,070 --> 00:35:34,430
stuff's weird, though. And I.

569
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:38,390
Yeah, my mom. Oh, rad. I, I, I know

570
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:42,190
who this is. Come in

571
00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:45,630
and they're like, what is that? I'm like, you know what? I like it,

572
00:35:45,870 --> 00:35:49,710
so whatever. No, I love that. That's rad.

573
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,000
Yeah. That's so cool. Okay, cool.

574
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,720
Very cool. Awesome. I love finding out about new, like, artists like that. Like, I

575
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:02,560
just like that. Yeah. But yeah,

576
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,360
I mean, it's the same thing as, like, I literally had white walls

577
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,080
for a while, and I was like. Because I don't know, I feel like when

578
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,720
you walk into a room, like, the art has such an energy, and you need

579
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,130
to, like, really, like, curate it. It.

580
00:36:17,330 --> 00:36:20,970
And so now I have art on every wall, basically. So do I

581
00:36:20,970 --> 00:36:24,650
just. I have to, like. Like I said, I'll have to sit down and,

582
00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:28,490
like, map it out. Okay. I have all these. This art pieces. Okay. How

583
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:32,290
is this gonna look? I'll draw it. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I

584
00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:35,730
mean, it takes anal about it. It takes time, for sure.

585
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:39,650
100. I spent, like, three weeks, like, just figuring out the art

586
00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:43,090
working this place. So it's hard because you have to be in the room all

587
00:36:43,090 --> 00:36:46,870
the time, and you're like, well, I have to stare at this, like,

588
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:50,470
every day, so. It better, like, better look good. Yeah,

589
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:54,470
I'm like. Or if it's. Oh, I'm so If it's crooked. Oh, man.

590
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:58,070
Yeah, that's not. It'll drive me nuts. But people that have, like, stock

591
00:36:58,870 --> 00:37:02,150
pictures of, like, zebras and, like, whatever. I'm, like,

592
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:06,310
all power to you. But for me, like, I need to, like,

593
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:09,670
feel something when I'm in a room full of art. So

594
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:14,700
that's. Cheers to those people, though, because I wish. I wish that it was that

595
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:18,140
easy for me, but it's. Yeah, just hang up anything, like. Yeah, it doesn't matter.

596
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:21,100
This looks kind of cool. So not that easy.

597
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:26,460
Yeah. Well, tell. Oh, yeah. Arms of Another is the new one. Tell me about

598
00:37:26,460 --> 00:37:29,580
that song and what do you have coming up? Yeah, so

599
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:34,460
that one, I'm. I mean, I think that's the one that, like, to date that.

600
00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:38,170
That I'm, like, really, like, the most proud of. And,

601
00:37:38,570 --> 00:37:41,530
yeah, the message behind it. It was so cool working with

602
00:37:42,410 --> 00:37:45,450
my friend on the COVID She's so talented, and

603
00:37:46,570 --> 00:37:50,090
it really felt like one of those songs that just.

604
00:37:50,250 --> 00:37:53,370
We kind of got in the studio and, like, we had no idea where it

605
00:37:53,370 --> 00:37:57,170
was going. I kind of, like, knew that song

606
00:37:57,170 --> 00:38:01,010
is really, really important to me because it really has

607
00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:04,810
to do with, like, connection and friends and family and, like, all the things

608
00:38:04,810 --> 00:38:08,510
that, like, I've realized, like, if you really strip everything cool

609
00:38:08,510 --> 00:38:12,070
art on your walls and the clothes and the. You know,

610
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:16,510
everything, like, friends and family are the most important. And for me,

611
00:38:16,510 --> 00:38:20,070
like, when I was going through my treatments and my illness and all these things,

612
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:23,950
like, family and friends were, like, the core, and the things

613
00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:27,430
that, like, really, like, meant the most to me. Second was art,

614
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:30,830
obviously. Like, the music and the film. Who's gonna be there for you? Yeah,

615
00:38:30,830 --> 00:38:34,630
emotionally. Yeah. Yeah. But. And that's all at the

616
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:37,710
end of the day, like, that's, like, me and myself and, like, kind of learning

617
00:38:37,710 --> 00:38:41,260
to be my own best. Yeah. So that

618
00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:45,020
song really kind of has to do with that. And I think

619
00:38:45,020 --> 00:38:48,380
that kind of was, like, the hope for me is, like, people kind of, like,

620
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:51,980
resonating with that. Obviously, the hook is really catchy, and it's A fun

621
00:38:51,980 --> 00:38:54,100
song and it has kind of mystery to it,

622
00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:59,540
but yeah, so that obviously just came out and it's

623
00:38:59,540 --> 00:39:03,060
been really exciting and people have liked it. And I think,

624
00:39:03,060 --> 00:39:06,900
like, since I've been releasing music again, I've gotten like a

625
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:10,370
couple messages here and there. And that's. That's kind of like the reason I'm doing

626
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:14,010
it. Like, people from like, opposite ends of the earth being

627
00:39:14,010 --> 00:39:17,770
like, I really like this song. Like, that's like why I'm doing it,

628
00:39:17,770 --> 00:39:21,370
you know? So it feels really good to know that, like,

629
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:25,209
it's resonating and it's hitting people the way that I was hoping

630
00:39:25,209 --> 00:39:28,970
it would. And we have a lot of great

631
00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:32,810
music coming out, I think, like, yeah, I mean, I have been

632
00:39:34,330 --> 00:39:37,960
just, you know, even if I don't know, like, what I

633
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,600
have in mind before I get in this, in a session, we kind of get

634
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,880
in there and it just like happens. And I think that is kind of like

635
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,560
the beauty of like, really trying to really finding my sound and my

636
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,360
footing as a songwriter and an artist. So,

637
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,120
yeah, I mean, I have some music lined up. I think the next single

638
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,800
hopefully will be out in October.

639
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,600
But yeah, consistency is the goal right now and like, really kind of trying

640
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,140
to share and put myself out there and hope that

641
00:40:07,140 --> 00:40:10,820
people resonate with it. That's cool. I love

642
00:40:10,820 --> 00:40:14,460
it. I have one more question. I asked you the same exact one

643
00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:18,220
last time, but maybe your. Your answer will

644
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:22,060
change in the three years. If you have any advice for

645
00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:23,460
aspiring artists.

646
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:31,190
This is a good question. I wonder if it's the same answer or not. I

647
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:34,830
remember what your answer was because I watched it. Okay. I'm not gonna tell you

648
00:40:34,830 --> 00:40:37,590
if you. Okay, yeah, same answer or not. I'm not gonna tell you.

649
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:41,510
I think honestly

650
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:47,470
I. I think, you know, do it for yourself, don't do it for

651
00:40:47,470 --> 00:40:51,270
anyone else. And that's kind of, you know, a little

652
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:55,030
far fetched because there's always this idea of like, you're

653
00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:58,470
gonna be making a song and you kind of want it to hit certain corners

654
00:40:58,550 --> 00:41:02,210
or, you know, you want to push it a certain way. And there's all these

655
00:41:02,210 --> 00:41:05,330
trends and there's just, for me, like, that's all noise

656
00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:09,170
and at the end of the day, like, it will reach

657
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:13,690
the places it's meant to, obviously have to put the work in.

658
00:41:13,690 --> 00:41:17,490
And these days you can't just like, release a record and hope people will

659
00:41:17,490 --> 00:41:21,250
find it or like, put it on the right person's desk. It really does require

660
00:41:21,250 --> 00:41:24,930
that work. But I think if it comes from

661
00:41:24,930 --> 00:41:28,530
you, for you. It'll, you know,

662
00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:29,730
go where it's meant to go.

663
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:36,990
Bringing it backwards,

664
00:41:40,750 --> 00:41:44,270
bringing it backward, Bringing it backward,

665
00:41:44,510 --> 00:41:48,030
Bringing it backward, Bring it backward,

666
00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:49,870
bring it backwards.