BiB: Aaron Fink: Why Breaking Benjamin’s Former Guitarist Is Betting on Himself

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What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast

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where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories

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of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance

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to hang out with Aaron Fink over Zoom Video.

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This is actually the third time we've had Aaron on the

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podcast. We had him on a couple of times in

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2021, March, and then in August, the first time with his

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band Earshot and then alongside Nick

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with the band Lifer. This time around, Aaron joined us

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to talk about his brand new album which is

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called the Invisible Line. We kind of recapped a little bit on the first two

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interviews we had, but we talked a lot about Aaron's solo

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project and he gets into detail about his process when

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it comes to writing for Earshot or Lifer or for himself

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and how he plays all of the instruments on his solo

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project, talks about the recording process of this new album.

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So we really do a deep dive into Aaron's creative

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process when it comes to working on

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songs and records solely for his solo project.

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You can watch the interview with Aaron on our Facebook page and YouTube

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channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing if you subscribe to our channel

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like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and tick tock at

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Bringing back Pod and. And if you're listening to this on Spotify,

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Apple Music, Google podcasts, it would be incredible if you follow us

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We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.

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Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're Bringing. It Backwards with

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Aaron Fink.

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Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.

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Bringing it backwards. Bringing it

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backwards.

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Hey, what's up Aaron? How are you man? What's up dude?

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I'm good, man. How are you? Excellent.

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Awesome. Thank you so much for, for doing this. I'm super excited

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to have you on again. Yeah, me too. I think it's been,

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I don't know, at least two years since we talked or something. Right? Yeah,

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I think last time it was with Lifer.

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Yeah, very nice. Yeah. So it was.

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Yeah, there the first time it was just you with Earshot. I think

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I want to say yer. Maybe Nick was on with

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you Believe. Does that make sense? Yeah,

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Always doing something, it's hard to keep track. Yeah,

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man, well, yeah, you got so much going on all the time.

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Well, I again, I appreciate you doing it again. So you kind of know what

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the drill. We talk about you and your journey in music and

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you said you have a new album? Yep. My new

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record's called the Invisible Line and that'll be out, I think

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in September. I'm gonna release, you

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know, what. What the kids Call, I guess Drip It Out. I don't know.

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I'm excited, dude. Yeah. The most recent one that you put out was I Went

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Back Down. Is that the newest one? Yeah, that was just Tom

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Petty cover that I did. I. I thought, yeah,

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just kind of put out something familiar

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just to kind of stir the waters for. For my songs that'll come out later.

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I know that's a song that's been done a million times, but I kind of

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put my own spin on it. It's a little bit different than. Than you think.

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No. 100. Yeah, I think it's a rad, really rad

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version of the song. Oh, thanks, dude.

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Yeah. And then after I recorded that, I had seen

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that there was a country compilation

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coming out of all his songs and I was like, ah, man. So that

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was kind of bad timing. But I put out my song,

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get him to it. Right. Theirs came out first. Oh, there's

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just came out first. I had recorded that and then I saw in the

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news that that was coming out. I was like, ah. But I mean, it has

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been covered before. And like I said, all the versions I heard very

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like to the T, just straight up exactly like

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his. And I was like, I didn't see the point in

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trying to replicate something that was already great the way it was the first

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time. So I made mine different.

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Love it. Love it. Well, I guess for the people that

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haven't, they should go back and watch the first two interviews. Lifer and

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earshot to get your. Dive into it. But

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we'll just recap a little bit and kind of pick up where we, you know,

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left off with what's been going on since

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last interview with. With Life. I think you had an album out at the time.

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Yeah, we put out consecutive singles.

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We never made a full length record. So that

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band as it is today, we put out a record in

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2001 and then

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2020ish. We put out like five

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singles in a row. So. Okay, that's what it was. Yeah, maybe it was

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Hate Me, Love Me. I think maybe it was a single at the time. I

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can't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah. So,

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right, so where we stand with that? It was one album and five singles, so.

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Okay. Right on. So originally,

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tell me again, where are you originally born and raised? Right.

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I was born in New York state upstate, but I kind of.

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I Moved to Pennsylvania in the early 80s and have lived here

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ever since. Okay. Yeah. I thought you still were there. Yeah,

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yeah. Where are you at right now? You're in Nashville. Nashville,

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yeah. First time I talked to you, I was in San Diego,

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and then we moved to Nashville. Yes. The last

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time we spoke, I had been in. Yeah, we had moved to Nashville maybe like

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a year, and then now, obviously still here. Love it in Nashville.

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Yeah. I was just down there about two weeks ago.

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I went down to a little town called

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Hendersonville. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Just. That's like thinking

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north of Nashville. Yeah. So

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I finished up some tracks for the new Earshot record.

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So I was down in. Oh, rad. So you guys record it in Nashville area?

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We did half of it in Florida and then we finished up in

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Nashville. Awesome. So awesome.

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Yeah. So you're in. Still in Pennsylvania, and that's kind

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of where. I mean, that's where life started. Right. And that was kind

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of the. Was that the first band? And then you eventually joined

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Breaking Benjamin, like, years later. Right. And were you

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embraced? So Breaking Benjamin came first, actually.

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And. And. But the first incarnation of it didn't last

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very long, and that was in the late 90s. And

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then we kind of became Strange with

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Candy, which became Lifer. Oh, sure. Okay.

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And then I went back to Breaking Benjamin. So

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it was kind of a, you know, a complicated,

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convoluted mix there of a lot of the same guys in the same area

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and kind of, you know, stirring it up.

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And then Breaking Benjamin obviously hit really big.

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So that took off and, you know, that started a whole series

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change. Probably changed your life quite a bit for.

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It did. Yeah. Horse. For a while. Yeah. Yeah.

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So, okay. Just because we've already kind of went over all these things before in

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the. In the other interviews. I just. Let's pick up then with. With, you

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know, you. You released a single with. With lifer in, like, 2020

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or 2022, I think. 2021. 2022. When that. That came

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out and then, you know, from there. When do you start working on this

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album? You know, your solo stuff, like, when you have so many

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things going on, it sounds like you just record an earshot record. I mean,

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you have a lot to. Yeah. You know, kind of going on here,

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so. I'm always working. I do. You know,

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I never counted it, but I'm sure I put in about 40 hours a week,

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as, like, one would with a, you know, regular job.

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So I'm always writing. I'm not always writing,

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actually. It's funny, I think about it, I go through.

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I usually always write in the winter. I don't know why.

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I guess in Pennsylvania, there's just a lot of, like, indoor time,

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and that seems to be when I create a lot of stuff.

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And then. So

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this past winter, I wrote most of these songs

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coming up that'll be coming up on the Invisible Line

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record, but. And then I recorded them in January

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and February in a studio in the Poconos,

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which people kind of know. Pennsylvania for the mountains,

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but. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then Earshot

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was written and recorded last summer. So

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it's. That album's taken forever to kind of get done. So.

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But that. So that's kind of been in the can, so to speak,

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at least creatively, for well over a year.

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But I am writing a lot and recording with different

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things and keeping busy. I'd like to play more shows,

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but in tour some more. But it's just,

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you know, it's. It's tough these days to get that going. And

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it's. Yeah, really. It's not the same as it was. It's. It's a lot

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harder with Lifer. Like,

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is that you. I mean, you said you put one album out, but then, you

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know, five singles or so. Is that band

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more. You guys just kind of get together when

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you feel like. I. Is that more of just get together

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when you can type deal, and then you focus more on your shot and obviously

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what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we broke

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up obviously there for a long time, at least

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16, 17 years. And then we got back together,

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and then the pandemic happened. So that

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kind of made things very

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odd. And then Nick

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Singer. Yeah. Say the least. So Nick. And then

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Nick, the sing of Lifer,

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was in the band Cold for a while. Yeah. So

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he was torn with that, actually. The drummer of Lifers also

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in Cold. So two of those guys from Lifer went

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to Cold. I think the basis of Cold has been on my show

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before. It's a. She's the female. Correct. I

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forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had her on. Yeah.

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So that put kind of Lifer on ice for a while,

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and then I started getting back into my solo stuff.

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So, you know, like, we're not broken up. We're just kind of

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on ice for a minute while everybody's pursuing

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other things, you know? Yeah, yeah. No 100.

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And then you did. Yeah. Earshot, obviously, has just

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kind of been something that's continued on. Yeah, I do

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that whenever, you know, duty calls.

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That's kind of a strange setup. We all Live in different states.

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And so it's not like a thing where

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we're hardly ever in the same room together. So

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I do that when, you know,

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when I'm asked to, basically. But. Okay, so

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the thing that I focus on the most is my solo stuff and I, I

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do that and I gig around, you know, gig and records

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and. And have practices and you know,

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so that's the main thing that I'm doing these days. Yeah, because you

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had an. You put out Dear Universe.

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But that was even before. That was after we had talked. So you hadn't even

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put that album out yet. Yeah. So we missed an album cycle.

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Yeah. So. Okay. So. I mean. Well, I

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guess. Yeah. Just tell me about going into. I mean you have. You've been putting

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out albums under your own solstice for a long time,

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right? I mean for years you've had like what's gonna be like your fifth album,

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right? I think it's the sixth. Sixth

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album. Yeah. Okay. Six albums under your belt.

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Under. Yeah. Under your solo stuff. Like

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it would have loosely have plans to make 10

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a la Quentin Tarantino. Okay,

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well then why did you just. What? Change. Change it to something else? Well,

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I heard, I saw an interview with him and he was. And he gave us

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great interview and he said he's gonna make 10 movies. And I was like,

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that's. That's genius. So like I'm at

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six. So I. I loosely have plans to make

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ten. So four more coming.

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But yep. So Dear Universe

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came out. I think that came out in 2022.

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And that's a. I'm really proud of that record. So that was my

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kind of return to slightly

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heavier, slightly more produced music.

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I. I got into a vibe there

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where I was making more roots rock type stuff

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and less like very raw

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sounding records. And so now with, with.

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With Dear Universe and the Invisible Line, they're a little bit heavier,

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which I know people know me for. Nothing crazy,

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not like stuff I'm hearing younger people put out

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Crazy heavy. To me it's like so, you know,

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it's more like, I guess dad rock. But.

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When it comes to like writing, like you said with, with

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Earshot, you all live in different states. Like are you writing with

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those, I mean for that band as well, alongside your

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solo stuff or is it totally different? Like you're just mainly when you, when you're

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writing, when you sit down and write, is it basically you're trying to usually write

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for your. Your own project?

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It's a good question, I think when I write.

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So when I'm working with Earshot. I'm writing the

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music, right? Writing the lyrics

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or the melody. So

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it's mostly with Lifer. Every now and then I write lyrics with Lifer.

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But so with those two bands, that's more

235
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of like when I'm doing straight up riffs or

236
00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:20,490
verse beds or chorus beds,

237
00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:25,610
I usually ship them out to either Life or Earshot

238
00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:29,410
because I know I'm not the singer in those bands or the

239
00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:32,810
lyricist. So I'm like, this is a great music

240
00:15:32,890 --> 00:15:36,690
bed. I'll let Will or Nick sing over it and

241
00:15:36,690 --> 00:15:40,170
do their thing. When I have like song

242
00:15:40,170 --> 00:15:43,650
titles or lyrics going or melodies I

243
00:15:43,650 --> 00:15:47,450
usually lean towards, well, that's going to be one of my songs because

244
00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:50,570
I have a clear finished version

245
00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:55,130
for the tunes. And you know,

246
00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:58,370
I'm like, all right, I'm gonna sing this one. So. And I. Or I feel

247
00:15:58,370 --> 00:16:01,970
very strongly about the lyrics because they're personal or, you

248
00:16:01,970 --> 00:16:05,770
know, so they. They get reserved for. For

249
00:16:05,770 --> 00:16:09,610
my thing. So when you write songs for yourself, does it

250
00:16:09,610 --> 00:16:13,170
start with the lyrics or with the melody that you

251
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:16,210
come up with instead of like maybe sitting down and you're like, oh, this is

252
00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:19,930
a pretty rocking riff. Or this is a cool. Like this would make a

253
00:16:19,930 --> 00:16:23,490
cool chorus. Let me give it to those two bands.

254
00:16:23,890 --> 00:16:26,930
Or sometimes are you like, this is a pretty rock and riff and you have

255
00:16:26,930 --> 00:16:29,690
a melody in your head and you kind of just right along to it then

256
00:16:29,690 --> 00:16:33,530
that way. Yeah, I mean, it differs. I mean

257
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:37,210
usually. I mean, I'm sure you've heard other artists say that usually the best

258
00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:40,670
songs are the ones you write in like 10 minutes and they

259
00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:44,310
seem to all fall in place. They seems that those seem to be the

260
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:47,950
songs that stand the test of time for me. I notice

261
00:16:47,950 --> 00:16:51,710
the songs I labor over and I'm like, oh, I can't

262
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:55,430
finish this. Or this part isn't right. Or they're kind of

263
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:59,230
like a Frankenstein piece of us. The part of a song,

264
00:16:59,230 --> 00:17:02,470
a part of a song and a riff from here and you glue them together.

265
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:06,190
Those part. Those seem to be. For whatever reasons this. The

266
00:17:06,190 --> 00:17:08,510
songs that don't stand the test of time for me.

267
00:17:10,110 --> 00:17:13,689
So. But you know, I have. Have riffs laying around and

268
00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:17,329
I. I stockpile stuff and I'll have

269
00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:20,409
just a riff and I'll be like, ah, it's kind of unfinished.

270
00:17:20,889 --> 00:17:24,569
Or usually with me. Or

271
00:17:24,969 --> 00:17:28,209
maybe heavier riffs. Go to

272
00:17:28,209 --> 00:17:32,009
Earshot or Lifer because they're heavier bands and

273
00:17:32,409 --> 00:17:36,249
my stuff is a little bit more straight up rock and roll. It's not

274
00:17:36,249 --> 00:17:39,860
like, sure, heavy music. So like Maybe

275
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:43,220
the big, crunchier stuff goes to those. To those

276
00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:44,060
projects. But

277
00:17:48,220 --> 00:17:51,980
a lot of times with my stuff, I strangely start with

278
00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:55,780
just a song title. So I have, like, on

279
00:17:55,780 --> 00:17:59,620
my phone, I just think of song titles. I have, like, 200 song

280
00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:02,940
titles sitting there. And then.

281
00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:06,540
So that's lyrically a lot where I'll. I'll start

282
00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:09,810
with just the title and then.

283
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:14,450
But yeah, it's weird. Like I said, I go through periods. Like, I wrote

284
00:18:14,690 --> 00:18:18,450
most of the Invisible Line in

285
00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:22,210
November and December last year, and they don't kind of.

286
00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:26,970
I'll really get hyper focused on, like, all right, I'm in a songwriting

287
00:18:26,970 --> 00:18:30,450
zone, and all my creative

288
00:18:30,450 --> 00:18:34,210
processes are done in the morning, over a cup of coffee.

289
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:37,750
I'm not. I'm not a late night guy.

290
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:41,510
I'm not a chemically induced guy.

291
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:46,710
It's so boring. I'm, like, stone sober.

292
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:51,229
Nine in the morning, fired up, cup of coffee. Like, I know

293
00:18:51,229 --> 00:18:54,830
it's not very rock and roll, Sonny, but that's just the way I work. I

294
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:58,670
get. Usually those are the best songs. I'm stone sober, too, but you

295
00:18:58,670 --> 00:19:02,050
know what I mean? Like, you. I feel like once people start to use, like,

296
00:19:02,050 --> 00:19:05,610
a crutch, like, oh, I need to be, like, really stoned, and then the vibe,

297
00:19:05,610 --> 00:19:09,290
it's like, he probably doesn't. Yeah, for me, it's. For

298
00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:13,130
me, that's not the way I'm pretty. You know, I was

299
00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:16,290
fortunate. I was. I came from a creative family. My dad's a writer,

300
00:19:17,410 --> 00:19:21,050
my sister's a painter. And the arts were always encouraged

301
00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:24,610
in our household. And we kind of like, you know,

302
00:19:24,930 --> 00:19:28,330
some families would go to, like, Walt Disney World. We went to, like, a

303
00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:31,400
museum. So it was, like, pretty boring. That's so rad.

304
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,520
So, like, I could convince my kids to do that, right? Well, it

305
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,320
was a different era. Disneyland. I know there was

306
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,080
no phones to stare at, but I think my point was, like,

307
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,760
creativity was always encouraged and

308
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,360
in my family. So, like, I always had. I think I'm just

309
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,010
kind of maybe hardwired in that department. So,

310
00:19:58,290 --> 00:20:01,290
you know, I look like a guy that smokes weed all day, but actually, I

311
00:20:01,290 --> 00:20:03,810
don't smoke weed at all, and I don't.

312
00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:10,530
So I don't need, like. I'm not saying I'm not. Not against

313
00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:13,810
any other stuff. I'm just saying I don't use that stuff to kind of find

314
00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:17,010
my creativity. I. I feel like life

315
00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:20,970
and situations and events and. And getting

316
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:24,780
older and, you know, even being a father

317
00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:28,620
or this and that are the kind of things that inspire me to Write.

318
00:20:29,340 --> 00:20:33,020
And I don't really need to, you know, break out the psychedelics

319
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:36,660
to. To get weird. I can kind of get weird on my

320
00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:36,940
own.

321
00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:44,140
You do. Like, I know a lot of artists talk about the

322
00:20:44,140 --> 00:20:47,820
artist's way, that book. Or they talk about morning pages and getting up and

323
00:20:47,820 --> 00:20:51,650
writing. Like, is you. Is that part of your routine at all? Like you

324
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:55,210
get up and just start like brain dumping, just everything. Or

325
00:20:55,290 --> 00:20:58,490
is it focus on writing something?

326
00:20:59,530 --> 00:21:02,730
Right. I've heard a lot of like

327
00:21:03,050 --> 00:21:06,730
Nashville style songwriters say they

328
00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:10,410
write every day no matter what, like a schedule.

329
00:21:10,570 --> 00:21:13,690
I'm not like that. If something comes to me,

330
00:21:14,580 --> 00:21:17,700
I'll hopefully can set aside some time in my day

331
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:21,980
to focus on it. If something comes to me and I'm like, I'll never remember

332
00:21:21,980 --> 00:21:25,220
that. I just record it on my phone acapella. Or

333
00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:29,060
if I. If there's a guitar laying around. But

334
00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:34,740
I'm not strict about it. It's just if. When it comes to me, it comes

335
00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:38,300
to me, but I don't make it a. It's not like going to the gym

336
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:41,850
or something for me. If it's. It's not like we're doing this

337
00:21:41,850 --> 00:21:45,690
Monday at 9. So if it comes. It comes to me. If it comes to

338
00:21:45,690 --> 00:21:49,490
Coming. Yeah. With your. I mean to.

339
00:21:49,650 --> 00:21:52,450
I love the fact you put out all albums and then you're like, I'm gonna

340
00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:55,969
do 10. You know, instead of the. The

341
00:21:55,970 --> 00:21:59,690
new thing with you do a single and put it out

342
00:21:59,690 --> 00:22:02,610
and you gotta. It's space. And then we're gonna release

343
00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:06,370
five total and then it just all ends now. This EP

344
00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:10,690
or whatever. Like when you, when you write like

345
00:22:10,770 --> 00:22:14,570
for this new album or even Dear Universe, like, do you have

346
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:17,930
a, like a through line that you kind of start to see and then you

347
00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:20,490
start like, okay, I know this is going to be kind of the concept of

348
00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:24,170
the album. I mean, not saying that it is a concept album, but you know,

349
00:22:24,170 --> 00:22:27,410
albums have some sort of through line

350
00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:30,130
in place. Like. Yeah,

351
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:35,620
that's a good question. I don't think that I've made a

352
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:39,340
concept album yet. Although for the next

353
00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:41,980
one I do have a theme in mind.

354
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:49,300
I think so. I read a lot and I

355
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:52,700
have quite a few songs stockpiled.

356
00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:56,940
I think I kind of get into a zone. So I am still

357
00:22:56,940 --> 00:23:00,220
an album mentality guy. It's probably because of my age.

358
00:23:01,260 --> 00:23:04,380
I just personally think albums are cooler.

359
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:10,060
I agree. If you looked back and you were

360
00:23:10,060 --> 00:23:13,820
like, remember when Pearl Jam released that song Alive?

361
00:23:15,340 --> 00:23:19,019
I just don't think it has the same ring

362
00:23:19,019 --> 00:23:22,700
to it or the nostalgia Quality of. Remember

363
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:26,460
when they released that album 10. Right. And I

364
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:30,100
also feel like it's not. The longevity isn't there either. You're not going to be

365
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,510
like, yeah, oh, I like this. I mean,

366
00:23:34,270 --> 00:23:38,030
obviously music is changing and everything's changing and everyone's so like, quick,

367
00:23:38,030 --> 00:23:41,790
quick, quick. But like to be a band

368
00:23:41,790 --> 00:23:45,590
like Pearl Jam, you know, you, those, those

369
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:49,350
are the bands that are gonna stand the test of time because they have a

370
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:52,990
full album of songs that is that people like everything.

371
00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:57,080
I think so. I think so. I think so.

372
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,840
And like, you know, it's been brought to my

373
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,480
attention by more business minded people of like, just release a

374
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,320
song at a time and I'm just like, I hear you and

375
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,040
I know that's what everybody else does, but it's just, it's just

376
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,880
not what I strive to do. I mean, I

377
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,560
would be interested in doing an ep, but just

378
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,240
a song. I also, again, I just write so much, I'm like,

379
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,280
well, I might as well just put them out. Even if, you know, maybe

380
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,720
say the 9th, 8th, 9th, 10th song aren't as strong as the other.

381
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,720
It still felt at the time some sort of snapshot

382
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,040
of where my head was at and what I was doing and

383
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,760
what I was into at the moment. So.

384
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,840
And again, coming back maybe Tarantino movies, I'm

385
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,660
a huge film buff and I wouldn't want

386
00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:55,220
to see just a scene, right?

387
00:24:56,340 --> 00:25:00,100
Or dogs. I want to see the whole movie. So like that's where

388
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:03,260
his head was at at the time and that's his

389
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:07,020
snapshot. So I don't know. You know, call me

390
00:25:07,020 --> 00:25:10,340
crazy, I'm just, I'm into, I'm into albums. It's also,

391
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:14,580
you know, it's, they're, it's more expensive than people think

392
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:18,460
to make a good album. And you know, it sucks that they're kind

393
00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:21,980
of for free at this point. Although I did

394
00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:25,580
press, I actually have it laying right here. I

395
00:25:25,580 --> 00:25:29,140
pressed vinyl, the new record. Oh, wow.

396
00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:33,460
That's the COVID Awesome. That's such a rad cover. Oh, thanks, dude.

397
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:38,340
So that's the invisible line. I have a couple. I just got

398
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:42,180
copies in the mail, but so I did. So

399
00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:45,860
hopefully I can make a buck or two because it's just so, so damn

400
00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:49,220
expensive to make, to make records. So I still go to

401
00:25:49,220 --> 00:25:51,620
studios and I still hire guys. And

402
00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:56,820
I'm not like, I'm DIY in the sense that I'm

403
00:25:56,820 --> 00:26:00,260
not on a big label, but I'm not diy like in the sense that

404
00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:04,340
I'm gonna do it all in my Basement and for. On. On. On

405
00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:08,060
the cheap. I still, you know, do it

406
00:26:08,060 --> 00:26:11,700
up a little bit. So it's hard to make a buck on the back end.

407
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:14,990
But I don't know. I'm rambling here, but.

408
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:21,230
Yeah, yeah. No, so, like, with that, I mean, when you write

409
00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:25,110
a bunch of songs, are you. Yeah. Kind of start seeing, like, oh,

410
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:28,950
this. I think this could be an album, or this. These are all kind

411
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:32,630
of work. You. You could lay them out in a way where it would sound

412
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:35,910
like an album. Or once you get to that point, are you recording a lot

413
00:26:35,910 --> 00:26:38,760
of just the demos at your house by yourself or.

414
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,240
And is that. Are you. Are you recording everything yourself? Yes.

415
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,760
So I have a little studio set up here at the house, and

416
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,360
I. Actually were in your studio one of the times I talked to you, maybe.

417
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:56,880
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm actually pretty

418
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,480
damn fluent in all the rock. Basic

419
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,280
rock instruments. I've been playing drums as long as I've been playing

420
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,780
guitar. I remember that was like, one of your first instruments, right? Or was that.

421
00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:11,580
Yeah, so. So. And. And my

422
00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:15,100
music isn't incredibly complicated on the drum,

423
00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:18,940
so I can play all my own songs just fine.

424
00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:21,900
And I. So I write, you know, I play bass

425
00:27:22,940 --> 00:27:26,580
guitar, piano, sing,

426
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:30,220
obviously, so I get all. All my ideas I can flesh

427
00:27:30,220 --> 00:27:33,750
out all by myself. And

428
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:38,030
it's kind of a lonely process, but there is. There is a beauty to

429
00:27:38,030 --> 00:27:41,830
it. And, like, it is satisfying to some degree.

430
00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:45,230
So, like, if I'm like, oh, this song should have this drum beat, I go

431
00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:48,950
out and I record it and make it happen. And then

432
00:27:50,150 --> 00:27:53,870
lately I've been farming that

433
00:27:53,870 --> 00:27:57,480
out to, like, you

434
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,640
know, at least in the drum department. I'm like, well,

435
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,680
I think there's a guy that could probably play this a little bit

436
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,400
better than me. So let's do that. They have the idea,

437
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,160
but you give them. It's not like you just send the parts that don't have

438
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,880
drums and. Yeah. Your own part to it. Right. So, you know,

439
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,680
going back to movies, basically, I write the whole script

440
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,800
and then I have actors come in

441
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:28,740
and. And bring it to life and make it better

442
00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:32,900
than it would have been just on paper,

443
00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:36,500
if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So do you utilize, like, a

444
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:40,340
producer in the sense of, like, helping you try to enhance

445
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:44,100
the song or so? So I guess, like.

446
00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:47,540
Yeah. Other ideas or. No. Yeah, I pretty much

447
00:28:47,540 --> 00:28:51,140
produced the Invisible Line and Dear

448
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:54,860
Universe. I had great studio

449
00:28:54,860 --> 00:28:57,980
owner, engineer guys that really

450
00:28:59,260 --> 00:29:02,860
helped it come to life. But as far as,

451
00:29:02,860 --> 00:29:05,900
like, overseeing all the creative process and stuff,

452
00:29:06,940 --> 00:29:10,620
I do that for better or for worse. But I'm

453
00:29:10,620 --> 00:29:14,380
kind of good at seeing where this should go here and this

454
00:29:14,380 --> 00:29:17,740
go here and overall picture. And I've been doing this for a long. This is.

455
00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:21,580
I made a lot of records, so, like, like

456
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:25,850
I know a thing or two about a thing or two at this point. Right.

457
00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:30,250
So now

458
00:29:31,370 --> 00:29:33,290
it would be cool to

459
00:29:35,530 --> 00:29:39,290
do an album where I don't flesh everything

460
00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:42,250
out beforehand and maybe just have sketches.

461
00:29:42,970 --> 00:29:46,330
And I would be curious to see, to give

462
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:51,380
someone else, like, total creative

463
00:29:51,620 --> 00:29:55,260
license with it and just

464
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:58,660
have like, I got the lyrics, the melody, and just the guitar

465
00:29:58,820 --> 00:30:02,620
and like, let someone else maybe fill in all the blanks. I

466
00:30:02,620 --> 00:30:06,420
might, I would be open to that. It just hasn't happened that

467
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:10,140
way yet. Again, like a producer in mind that you

468
00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:13,690
would want. Or is it like you have no idea? I don't know.

469
00:30:14,970 --> 00:30:18,810
It'd be, you know, it would take some trust, I

470
00:30:18,810 --> 00:30:21,770
was gonna say. Yeah, you have to give up a lot of control on that.

471
00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:25,450
Yeah. So I'm open to that. I don't, you know, it hasn't happened. But

472
00:30:27,130 --> 00:30:28,730
again too, it's like,

473
00:30:31,690 --> 00:30:35,330
well, I can play the drums. So, like, I'll just play, I'll

474
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:38,490
just write the drum part. So, like. Right.

475
00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:42,780
That's on the album. I mean, it's

476
00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:46,620
not like an ego thing. It's just like, well, I can,

477
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:49,660
I'll play the drum beat I'm hearing on this. So

478
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,939
again, I think if I didn't have that skill set,

479
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:59,460
I, if I was just someone that kind of strum the guitar or whatever, I

480
00:30:59,460 --> 00:31:03,260
might just have, you know, I hear artists, newer

481
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:06,900
artists, even like pop songs where I can tell they. Someone just

482
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:10,610
had chords and a lyric or something. And then a producer,

483
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,480
producer made it with all this fancy underneath of it.

484
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,200
So I, I, I hear how music is made that way

485
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,640
where a producer takes a basic

486
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,920
idea and puts all this crazy, you know,

487
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,240
effects on it and stuff like that. But my music's a little bit more like

488
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,000
straight up rock and roll, so. Yeah, well, makes

489
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,840
sense. I mean, because obviously a producer will then have their thumbprint on it in

490
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,990
a way. Like, I mean, if you heard a certain producer, you, yeah. And you

491
00:31:38,990 --> 00:31:42,750
listen to that. Whether it's they wrote a song for X, Y or

492
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:46,150
Z artists, they all kind of have their own

493
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:49,750
vibe underlined in all

494
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:53,510
those songs. Right. You know what I mean? So it almost like with

495
00:31:53,510 --> 00:31:57,190
this being your solo stuff and your

496
00:31:57,190 --> 00:32:00,390
ideas and it would all, it all is just, okay, this is what I want

497
00:32:00,390 --> 00:32:03,550
it to sound like and this is what it's going to sound like there's. There's

498
00:32:03,550 --> 00:32:07,390
no. It's not a band setting in a way. Right. It's more. It's

499
00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:10,910
just you. Right. Again, I would be

500
00:32:10,910 --> 00:32:14,270
curious to make an album like that where I was just. I didn't

501
00:32:14,270 --> 00:32:17,950
overthink it to death and I just had the chords and the

502
00:32:18,270 --> 00:32:21,390
melody and the lyrics and I would be

503
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:25,310
interested to make an album that way. I just haven't yet.

504
00:32:25,870 --> 00:32:29,510
Okay, well, with this, with this new album, like kind of. Tell me

505
00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:32,990
about the. The like what it's. Is there.

506
00:32:33,070 --> 00:32:36,710
Is there like a kind of through line con. A concept album? But like, is

507
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:39,070
there like the album about. And like.

508
00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:43,950
Yeah. So it's a little bit heavier,

509
00:32:46,029 --> 00:32:49,830
a little bit. Nothing crazy, but it just has a little bit

510
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:53,510
more of an edge and you know, the guitars are a

511
00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:56,580
little detuned and kind of heavier

512
00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:01,940
because I know, you know, obviously I'm quite aware that

513
00:33:02,420 --> 00:33:05,740
people mostly know me as the guy from Breaking

514
00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:09,580
Benjamin. So you

515
00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:12,820
know, there was a part of me that for a while there that was like,

516
00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:16,500
well, I'm not in that band anymore and if I

517
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:20,020
have to kind of forge my own path now going forward. But

518
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:26,700
in recent years I've come back full circle and

519
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:30,100
I really appreciate the fact that I was the guy in that

520
00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:32,740
band and I'm

521
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:36,980
embracing that a lot more than I used to.

522
00:33:37,139 --> 00:33:37,540
And

523
00:33:41,460 --> 00:33:44,940
I, you know, for all the right

524
00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:47,460
reasons and at the right time, I'm trying to

525
00:33:50,650 --> 00:33:54,330
giving into that and making music that sounds a little bit more

526
00:33:54,330 --> 00:33:58,170
aligned with.

527
00:33:58,970 --> 00:34:02,250
With that music and that I think

528
00:34:02,490 --> 00:34:05,610
fans would appreciate more

529
00:34:06,170 --> 00:34:09,850
and it wouldn't be such a shift because I made

530
00:34:09,850 --> 00:34:13,650
some records before that were very different than Breaking Benjamin and it was

531
00:34:13,650 --> 00:34:17,390
a little bit. I don't think that I, you

532
00:34:17,390 --> 00:34:21,110
know, I'm interested in like drawing people back

533
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:24,950
into to my music and what I'm doing and have the career

534
00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:26,950
make more sense overall.

535
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:32,830
I don't know if that makes any sense, but yeah, I'm just kind of

536
00:34:32,830 --> 00:34:35,750
getting back into to my heavier roots

537
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:39,910
and so that. That's one thing with this record.

538
00:34:42,099 --> 00:34:45,939
What else? There's a couple songs, they're. They're a little

539
00:34:45,939 --> 00:34:49,619
bit more. There's a couple, like I would, for lack of a better term, like

540
00:34:49,619 --> 00:34:53,299
love songs, heavier

541
00:34:53,379 --> 00:34:56,819
love songs on this record

542
00:34:56,899 --> 00:35:00,619
because I. I got married last year and so that was like

543
00:35:00,619 --> 00:35:04,339
a big, obviously huge change in my life. Oh

544
00:35:04,339 --> 00:35:07,760
yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. So that was like a

545
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,720
whole mental shift in my

546
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,840
lifestyle and way of thinking and

547
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,040
there was some. A lot of like good things going

548
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,799
on when I wrote These songs. So a little

549
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,800
of that is definitely sprinkled in to this record,

550
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,440
so that's interesting. So they're. They're. There's some. They're love

551
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,250
songs, but they're, like, heavy, so I love

552
00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:37,690
it. Are you gonna. Do

553
00:35:38,330 --> 00:35:41,010
you talk. I mean, you have a vinyl out. Are you gonna tour on it?

554
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:44,690
You said you talked a little bit about how. Yeah. So

555
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:47,850
it's. That's so much easier said than done.

556
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:55,530
Yeah. I don't even know where to start with that. So, like, the idea of

557
00:35:55,530 --> 00:35:59,050
just, like, getting a tour bus and showing up at clubs and having people there

558
00:35:59,050 --> 00:36:02,820
is almost impossible. It's

559
00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:07,340
unbelievably hard to make that happen. It's. It's. I

560
00:36:07,340 --> 00:36:09,060
wish I could say otherwise, but

561
00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:15,700
I could be. I could go out in a van and trailer

562
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:20,100
and go and play clubs and have, you know,

563
00:36:22,420 --> 00:36:26,100
50 people there. But, dude, at my age,

564
00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:29,510
that is. That is a hard lifestyle and a

565
00:36:29,830 --> 00:36:33,430
real uphill battle. So from

566
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:37,150
my error, the way that you toured successfully is to be

567
00:36:37,150 --> 00:36:40,470
on the radio, and then you generated

568
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:44,470
some sort of prior excitement to the band

569
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:47,670
coming to town to be on the radio.

570
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:51,710
Terrestrial radio, which I still listen to.

571
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:55,030
I still, in my car all the time, have terrestrial radio on.

572
00:36:55,590 --> 00:36:58,790
So that's where I came from. Before I started, I was on for, like, 15

573
00:36:58,870 --> 00:37:01,750
years, and it's where it is. But.

574
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:08,070
So to be on terrestrial radio, you have to be on a major

575
00:37:08,070 --> 00:37:11,910
label, and I'm not obviously, on a major label. So there's

576
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:14,470
so many. There's so many roadblocks, and it's.

577
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:21,350
You know, I'm not. I don't have a viral video or

578
00:37:21,350 --> 00:37:25,110
whatever. I'm not, like, a young pop star or anything of that nature.

579
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:27,550
So it's. It's tough

580
00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:33,590
again. I think I could go out and do a really shitty

581
00:37:33,590 --> 00:37:37,390
tour for, like. For not. Not

582
00:37:37,390 --> 00:37:41,110
the quality of the music or my performances,

583
00:37:41,110 --> 00:37:44,910
but, like, the lifestyle. Smaller shows. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

584
00:37:44,910 --> 00:37:48,190
Like, not even that, but just rough in it. Probably you'd have to rough it

585
00:37:48,190 --> 00:37:51,470
a bit more than you. Yes. To rough it. And, you know,

586
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:57,020
so I'm not opposed to that. It's just really hard to put together. And then

587
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:59,820
the other thing is, you know,

588
00:38:01,020 --> 00:38:03,820
I don't have a day job,

589
00:38:06,140 --> 00:38:09,660
so it's easy. You're

590
00:38:09,740 --> 00:38:12,380
easier for me to be like, all right,

591
00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:17,700
screw it. I'm gonna go out in November and I'm gonna book a

592
00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:21,390
string of shows across the US and get a van and trailer and go out

593
00:38:21,390 --> 00:38:24,910
and do it. Now, the very next step, which makes it

594
00:38:24,910 --> 00:38:28,670
infinitely Harder is, well, who are your three

595
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:32,510
other guys going to be? Who are these three guys that don't

596
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:36,150
have day jobs and. Or don't have kids and can

597
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:39,990
just do that and go out and kind of make

598
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:43,630
your. My dream happen. So

599
00:38:43,630 --> 00:38:47,110
that's right away gets really tough of who are those,

600
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:50,960
who are the other guys? Right? And who are the

601
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,360
guys that are going to go out and make it happen for you? And you're

602
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,720
not, you know, you're maybe not going to pay them a huge salary or something.

603
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,720
So again, you know, I might be able to do

604
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:05,560
a little acoustic tour and play, you know, smaller,

605
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,280
smaller places and just not have a bunch of gear and not have a

606
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,040
sound guy, not have a merch person. You know, the list goes on

607
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,520
and on and on. So that's the really hard part of my business for me

608
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,840
these days is getting a tour together.

609
00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:24,450
The, the easier part is I can write songs by myself and play

610
00:39:24,450 --> 00:39:27,850
all instruments. That's the easy part. It's the touring part that

611
00:39:28,330 --> 00:39:31,850
and, and I still do want to tour. I'm not like,

612
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:37,770
you know, I'm too old for that. I'm just gonna watch TV tonight. Like I

613
00:39:37,770 --> 00:39:40,330
still want to do it. I just haven't had the opportunities

614
00:39:42,890 --> 00:39:46,530
to come my way. You know, I haven't had the right management in

615
00:39:46,530 --> 00:39:49,610
place or the booking agents to make it all happen or

616
00:39:50,350 --> 00:39:53,910
to get like an opening slot on, you know, bigger bands tour.

617
00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:57,670
But again, so I'm going on and on about all the negatives, but there

618
00:39:57,670 --> 00:40:01,470
are quite a few, few negatives. And I wish it wasn't so.

619
00:40:02,430 --> 00:40:06,189
Right. I mean that's. That you're 100% right though. You have to hire a band,

620
00:40:06,189 --> 00:40:09,590
right. It's not like you can't go up there and play drums, guitar,

621
00:40:09,590 --> 00:40:13,190
bass, singing, right. At the same time. Right. You're going to have to

622
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:16,710
hire guys. So I have. Right. So with, with my

623
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:20,500
solo stuff, there's one main guy who's always with me

624
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:24,300
every time. His name's John Novak and he's

625
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:27,940
a great friend and a great musician. So he's been my

626
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:31,740
mainstay guy. So. But it's just

627
00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:35,300
hard again, it's hard to lock in four guys and who

628
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:41,780
I think maybe if, you know, especially around my

629
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:45,500
age a lot, you know, almost everyone's married and has kids and the

630
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:49,100
day job and stuff. So it just, it gets more complicated as

631
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:52,080
you're, as you get older. When we were all like

632
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,040
23, nobody, nobody was married or

633
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,760
had kids. And we also like, there was a lot more of the

634
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,400
spirit of, like, it. Let's go on a tour and let's

635
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,120
live in a van and sleep on a floor somewhere.

636
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,200
But. It'S hard to get

637
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,800
psyched up for that at this age.

638
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,710
I'm thinking about it. I'm always like, yeah, yeah. I don't think

639
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:22,390
I could hack that. You know what I mean? Like, that's rough. And again.

640
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:26,270
Yeah. And again. When you're in a band, when you're younger,

641
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:29,910
there's a little bit more of, like, oh, we're in a gang and we're

642
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:33,030
bros, and let's

643
00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:37,190
all sacrifice to make it happen and.

644
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:41,230
And make the dream happen. And then now,

645
00:41:41,230 --> 00:41:44,510
like, when I'm a little bit more, you know, I'm doing, like, this solo thing,

646
00:41:44,510 --> 00:41:48,160
it's like, well, who do you find that's gonna make

647
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,520
the dream happen for you? So it's a little bit weirder

648
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,200
in that regard, I'm finding out, you

649
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,920
know. Yeah, this record's really. This is the best.

650
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,800
In my opinion, The Invisible Line is. Is the best of the

651
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,440
bunch so far. So I'm hoping that, you know,

652
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,160
some more people latch on to what I'm doing and start. And start

653
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,430
getting it. I love what

654
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:19,750
you're doing, I think. Oh, thanks, dude. Records are awesome. And

655
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:23,990
I haven't heard the new one, but I do like the. I won't back down.

656
00:42:23,990 --> 00:42:26,790
And obviously the. The deer. Yeah,

657
00:42:27,590 --> 00:42:31,350
yeah, yeah. When we hang up, I'll email

658
00:42:31,350 --> 00:42:35,030
you the new. The new what's coming out next

659
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:38,670
week. But. So I'm really proud of

660
00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:42,250
this, and I.

661
00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:46,010
Would you consider doing a. An acoustic tour, like, just yourself,

662
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:49,450
or do you feel like it wouldn't bring justice to the album? So

663
00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:53,530
whenever I play, like, I played acoustic on this over this

664
00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:57,010
weekend, and the show on Saturday night was

665
00:42:57,010 --> 00:43:00,730
fantastic. We were back in the zone, and we were really playing well together,

666
00:43:01,130 --> 00:43:04,890
and the place was packed and everybody was singing along, and there was

667
00:43:04,890 --> 00:43:08,630
a really good vibe, so.

668
00:43:09,110 --> 00:43:12,350
And I thought to myself, like, after, I was like, this is. This is what

669
00:43:12,350 --> 00:43:15,910
it's all about. So. So

670
00:43:16,070 --> 00:43:19,830
it's a. That's a great question. So I can.

671
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:23,630
Most of the songs carry acoustically, and

672
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:27,030
I. I don't like to perform solo, not because I'm

673
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:30,390
scared. I just don't think it does justice

674
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:34,710
to the songs because all my songs have harmony vocals in them,

675
00:43:35,350 --> 00:43:39,140
and. I. Think every

676
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:42,580
single song I have has a guitar solo in it. And you

677
00:43:42,820 --> 00:43:45,860
can't play a guitar solo by yourself. Right.

678
00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:50,340
Right. I mean, I've seen people do, like. Maybe on acoustic, it might not work.

679
00:43:50,340 --> 00:43:53,780
Either if you're. Yeah, but I mean, but you have to have someone

680
00:43:53,780 --> 00:43:57,580
accompany you. I mean, I've seen people do like the

681
00:43:57,580 --> 00:44:01,420
looper pedals and. Or they have like they're

682
00:44:01,420 --> 00:44:05,270
rolling tape. But, you know,

683
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:08,110
it's just kind of. I don't care who you are. It's kind of boring to

684
00:44:08,110 --> 00:44:11,750
see someone play by themselves for an extended period of time.

685
00:44:13,830 --> 00:44:17,390
It's really hard to make that exciting for an extended. I don't care who you

686
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:21,030
are. The only person I saw that really carried that

687
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:24,310
for like hour and a half was Chris Cornell.

688
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:28,310
Oh, yeah, and he was. Voice, though, is insane. So. Yeah,

689
00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:32,170
yeah. So I'm

690
00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:35,930
talking like one dude I've ever seen carry an

691
00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:39,690
hour and a half show by himself where you were like mesmerized.

692
00:44:39,690 --> 00:44:43,450
So it's. That's really, really tough in that

693
00:44:43,450 --> 00:44:47,130
department. Plus it's just more fun to play with somebody. So to answer your

694
00:44:47,130 --> 00:44:50,850
question, I would do an acoustic tour. If it was like me

695
00:44:50,850 --> 00:44:54,490
and John. I wouldn't do an acoustic tour

696
00:44:54,490 --> 00:44:57,960
just myself. I just sounds lonely and

697
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,160
I don't think it's a good representation of what I'm

698
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,680
trying to do because again, I can't play guitar

699
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,320
solos and. Or so that's half of the fun of, you

700
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,600
know, what I do is like, I think people enjoy

701
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,840
seeing me. Yeah.

702
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually, I've never

703
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,920
heard this before until like recently then I've had a few artists on that

704
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,710
have talked about this and, and it's kind of off topic, but I'm just curious

705
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:32,350
if you. If you ever had this or recall this in

706
00:45:32,350 --> 00:45:36,070
your. Your time. Is artists paying

707
00:45:36,070 --> 00:45:39,830
to be on tour with a bigger band? Yeah. Is this something

708
00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:43,670
that's always been around or is that. Yes. Yeah.

709
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:47,710
Interesting. I just had never heard that like a band being like, okay, yeah, you

710
00:45:47,710 --> 00:45:50,630
can jump on the tour. It's going to cost you X amount of dollars because

711
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:53,550
they know that they're the draw, obviously. Obviously. And you're getting in front of people.

712
00:45:54,350 --> 00:45:58,150
Yeah. So I know in. In bb. I

713
00:45:58,150 --> 00:46:01,950
know that we paid Godsmack to open up for them. It

714
00:46:01,950 --> 00:46:04,110
was a lot of money too, to be honest with you.

715
00:46:07,870 --> 00:46:11,710
And it was worth it. I bet. That's what I was wondering. Yeah,

716
00:46:11,710 --> 00:46:14,670
I mean, I'm sure it was a lot of money to. Yeah, because you're in

717
00:46:14,670 --> 00:46:17,870
a stadium at that point. So that. Yeah, that was

718
00:46:18,190 --> 00:46:20,920
all arenas and

719
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,800
Godsmack. I think it's

720
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,400
fair to say at that time we sold out every. They sold out every

721
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,200
arena. I forget if we were

722
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,040
like right before them or like us a band. I. For.

723
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,240
That was a long time ago. That was like 20 years ago. But

724
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,080
yeah, but that was the thing that you guys had done.

725
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,000
You, you, you. Right. So together and make a decision like, okay, like

726
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,850
is we're gonna get in front of this many people.

727
00:46:50,730 --> 00:46:54,090
I don't think, you know, in that. It wasn't any kind of big

728
00:46:54,330 --> 00:46:57,850
sit down talk. I think our manager just did it like.

729
00:46:59,210 --> 00:47:02,890
Or it wasn't like somebody at the time,

730
00:47:03,370 --> 00:47:06,890
somebody wasn't like, you guys are an independent band. It was. You had obviously been

731
00:47:06,890 --> 00:47:10,610
around and signed and. Yes, so we were right. So we were

732
00:47:10,610 --> 00:47:14,280
signed to a major label and it was like sort of somebody

733
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,960
else was paying for it. I mean we, I'm sure we paid for

734
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,680
it ultimately. Right. But at the

735
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,520
time someone else was fronting the money. It wasn't like

736
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,760
we all got together in a room and we're like, oh, let's have our

737
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,640
parents pull our money together. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't, I mean

738
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,960
it really wasn't. Not to sound like a dick, but it wasn't that big of

739
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,650
a deal. Yeah, but if you

740
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:43,250
were like an independent DIY band and you were

741
00:47:43,250 --> 00:47:47,090
looking to jump on a tour, I'm sure it's a lot bigger

742
00:47:47,330 --> 00:47:50,850
of a deal to get the cash together to do that.

743
00:47:52,050 --> 00:47:55,810
It is pretty. I have heard a lot of people talking about

744
00:47:55,810 --> 00:47:58,450
this more recently and

745
00:47:59,490 --> 00:48:03,170
a. I didn't know that people didn't know that went on.

746
00:48:04,210 --> 00:48:07,870
Yeah, I just had no idea. And then I also, I'm like,

747
00:48:07,870 --> 00:48:11,590
it's not that big of a deal. It's just, it makes a lot of sense

748
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:16,230
now. I personally

749
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:19,270
wouldn't pay to be on a buy on

750
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:23,670
like in a buy on of a small ass tour

751
00:48:23,830 --> 00:48:27,470
where, you know it's not going to be that packed. I personally wouldn't do

752
00:48:27,470 --> 00:48:30,790
that. But would I pay to open up? For

753
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:34,530
Godsmoke, yes, I would. Right, right, right, right.

754
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,640
So I don't think it's that big a deal. I don't think it's

755
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,960
like illegal or anything. I mean there's,

756
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,560
there's modern day,

757
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,160
not exactly payola, but that was a big

758
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,960
issue back in the day. Like that was illegal somehow. Well,

759
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,560
that was with the, the radio station. But I don't even, I don't even know

760
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,680
why that was illegal. Who cares?

761
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:07,000
That's a great point. Yeah, but I think it was almost. It was something along

762
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,840
the line. There's a radio station in San Diego that got shut

763
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,520
down because of it. It was a hip hop station. And

764
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,280
then they flipped to an alternative station after the fact. But it was the

765
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,040
night DJs and stuff were getting paid and music directors are getting paid to play,

766
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,520
like, records from other art. Like random artists that were. They would just,

767
00:49:27,070 --> 00:49:30,630
you know, take the money and put it on and. Right,

768
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:33,790
right. But I guess in the end,

769
00:49:34,510 --> 00:49:38,190
in the grand scheme of things, that's all it is. And if you look at

770
00:49:38,190 --> 00:49:41,870
radio station. There'S

771
00:49:41,870 --> 00:49:45,390
so many other ways that that really happens without that

772
00:49:45,390 --> 00:49:49,070
actually happening. Like, you don't. You know how

773
00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:52,590
many. So to everything that

774
00:49:52,590 --> 00:49:56,030
leads up to your band getting played on terrestrial radio

775
00:49:57,570 --> 00:50:01,330
is all an exchange of money and deals and

776
00:50:01,330 --> 00:50:04,730
stuff behind the scenes anyways. So when you get a record

777
00:50:04,730 --> 00:50:08,530
label, there's so much stuff going on there and then there's

778
00:50:08,690 --> 00:50:12,529
promotional stuff or there's. There's kickbacks

779
00:50:12,529 --> 00:50:16,130
and like, hey, if you play our song,

780
00:50:16,930 --> 00:50:20,650
our band will come to your summer festival and we'll play a

781
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:24,210
hundred percent. Yeah, it's. Oh, hey, I represent whatever.

782
00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:27,920
And kickbacks and stuff going on behind the

783
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,720
scenes. It's not just some. Like, if someone at home

784
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:35,360
thinks it's this organic scenario of

785
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,960
a DJ really liked a song and he had to put it on the

786
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,760
airwaves, that's. That is. That hasn't happened since like

787
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,480
1953. That's not. That's

788
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,250
not the way that works at all. There's no such

789
00:50:51,250 --> 00:50:55,090
thing. The. Occasionally there'll

790
00:50:55,090 --> 00:50:58,410
be like a viral sensation these days or

791
00:50:58,730 --> 00:51:02,570
like when I was growing up, the good. It wasn't on

792
00:51:02,570 --> 00:51:06,090
the Internet, but it certainly was a viral event.

793
00:51:06,330 --> 00:51:09,850
Was like Nirvana, Smells Like Teen Spirit.

794
00:51:10,570 --> 00:51:14,410
Right. That was viral before it was viral and.

795
00:51:14,410 --> 00:51:18,070
But again, to get Geffen Records, I'm

796
00:51:18,070 --> 00:51:21,910
sure made stuff happen behind the scenes to get it

797
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:25,550
on MTV in the first place, but once it was

798
00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:29,310
on there, it took on a life of its own. Sure.

799
00:51:29,630 --> 00:51:33,150
But there's no. Dude, I wish there was organic

800
00:51:33,870 --> 00:51:37,630
hits. It just doesn't work like that. Everything. And even

801
00:51:37,630 --> 00:51:38,670
now you can like

802
00:51:41,310 --> 00:51:44,960
sort of pay to get on Spotify playlists.

803
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,880
You can sponsor ads on Instagram

804
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,760
to get followers and this and that and the other thing. So everything's kind of

805
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,520
bought and paid for. I think it's

806
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,560
naive to think that your song got popular

807
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,320
on its own. It doesn't happen. It. So you. I

808
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,960
mean, I. There could be Stairway to Heaven could be on this

809
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,530
album, but if I don't. If someone. If I

810
00:52:11,530 --> 00:52:15,050
or somebody or a label doesn't put a lot of money behind it and

811
00:52:15,050 --> 00:52:18,250
hype it up and get it to the masses, no one's ever going to hear

812
00:52:18,250 --> 00:52:21,650
that. Stairway to Heaven. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? No. It

813
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:25,050
does. 100 I'm just. Because I came from radio.

814
00:52:25,210 --> 00:52:28,850
Yeah. Only the closest thing I. I had a moment in

815
00:52:28,850 --> 00:52:32,530
my life and my career and the only gold record I have is

816
00:52:32,530 --> 00:52:36,290
from the band the Struts. They're great. And

817
00:52:36,530 --> 00:52:40,290
the. With that song could have been me. And they weren't

818
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:43,850
signed at the time. They had a manager who was

819
00:52:43,850 --> 00:52:47,490
managing a couple other people and he knew my program director

820
00:52:48,370 --> 00:52:52,090
who called me and said hey you play this song. We were an independent

821
00:52:52,090 --> 00:52:55,570
station so we weren't owned by a big. But we were a

822
00:52:55,810 --> 00:52:59,650
station that had been in san Diego for 30, 40 years now. What was the

823
00:52:59,650 --> 00:53:01,950
name? 91X.

824
00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:07,910
So we were. My program director called me and he

825
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:11,670
goes hey play this song or tell

826
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:15,110
me what you think. And I think you should play it. And I heard it.

827
00:53:15,110 --> 00:53:18,070
I was like hell yeah I'll play. And I played it and then I just

828
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,830
kept playing it every night. He just let me play it. And then

829
00:53:22,110 --> 00:53:25,310
other stations, you know they look at your spin report and they're like who the

830
00:53:25,310 --> 00:53:29,130
hell is this band? The Struts. Yeah. And then they. Then we started adding it

831
00:53:29,130 --> 00:53:32,730
during the day and then it. Then they got signed Interscope and then the song

832
00:53:32,730 --> 00:53:36,450
can sync too. But it was. It was kind of a cool

833
00:53:36,450 --> 00:53:39,210
organic thing that I got to be a part of and be the first guy

834
00:53:39,210 --> 00:53:42,930
to play them in the States. And then you know. But

835
00:53:43,090 --> 00:53:46,770
those that. That's the only time this ever happened when I was in the career.

836
00:53:47,490 --> 00:53:50,810
So Mike. So you're saying that they weren't

837
00:53:50,810 --> 00:53:54,470
signed. Before you played that they weren't signed to

838
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:58,270
Interscope. They were working on getting a deal. And the manager

839
00:53:58,430 --> 00:54:01,950
who. But who but their manager had ties obviously with. He was

840
00:54:01,950 --> 00:54:05,790
managing some big name talent

841
00:54:06,110 --> 00:54:09,750
he knew. He found them and said this band's gonna be

842
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:13,430
huge. And he talked to our PD

843
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:17,030
and he. He told me to play the record. And they didn't have anything out.

844
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:20,150
They had one there. The album they had out was only in the UK and

845
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:23,690
it. And so nothing. It was a song from that UK

846
00:54:23,690 --> 00:54:27,250
recording that they ended up re recording and putting it out later. But it was

847
00:54:27,250 --> 00:54:30,770
like it was kind of a cool little piece of history to be a part

848
00:54:30,770 --> 00:54:33,770
of at the time. But like that's. That will

849
00:54:34,410 --> 00:54:38,050
now with the Internet that will never happen again. That was like 2014. Which

850
00:54:38,050 --> 00:54:41,770
is probably the very last of that ever happening again.

851
00:54:41,850 --> 00:54:45,490
But. Right.

852
00:54:45,490 --> 00:54:48,960
There are exceptions like that to what I Was saying,

853
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,960
but. No, but 100 agree with what you're saying because that

854
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,920
doesn't happen. It never happens. And

855
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,960
I just thought it was. I got, I. I got a chance to like kind

856
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:03,080
of be in that for a minute and it was like, whoa. And like my

857
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,720
program director at the time was the guy that he was in on the

858
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:10,520
radio in Detroit and he discovered like Violent Femmes and he was a

859
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,190
guy that played. What was that

860
00:55:14,190 --> 00:55:17,990
band called? I don't know. It was one single that was

861
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:20,750
the single. And he flipped the record over and started playing the other side and

862
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:24,430
that became the hit because he was just like kind of this guy that

863
00:55:24,430 --> 00:55:27,830
was a taste maker dude and didn't really care and. But.

864
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:33,750
Yeah, that's awesome. So there are exceptions to that rule,

865
00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:37,430
but it's rare, I guess a little bit

866
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:42,090
with my own career. There was a guy in St.

867
00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:45,810
Louis who really liked the

868
00:55:45,810 --> 00:55:47,930
Breaking Benjamin song Polyamorous.

869
00:55:50,490 --> 00:55:53,850
So now we were signed to a major label,

870
00:55:55,930 --> 00:55:59,610
but we weren't super popular yet. And he

871
00:56:00,330 --> 00:56:03,850
did. It was presented to him as Hollywood

872
00:56:03,850 --> 00:56:07,660
Records. Here's your new single now.

873
00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:11,420
He did go above and beyond and played it

874
00:56:11,420 --> 00:56:15,260
way more than he was like maybe supposed to. And really every

875
00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:18,940
time it was on, he hyped it up. So. And it. And

876
00:56:18,940 --> 00:56:21,340
St. Louis is a big city, so it became

877
00:56:23,500 --> 00:56:27,180
a hit in that town before anywhere else.

878
00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:30,540
So maybe like your strut story, there was one.

879
00:56:30,780 --> 00:56:34,620
There was one guy in particular who. I don't know

880
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:38,460
how that works, but maybe he played it more often than he was supposed to.

881
00:56:39,020 --> 00:56:42,700
Yeah, he probably played it a ton. And then. Yeah. And then what happens is

882
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:46,420
like other stations in the same format will look at and be

883
00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:50,100
like, why is this station in St. Louis playing this

884
00:56:50,100 --> 00:56:53,500
Breaking Benjamin song like 12 times a day? This doesn't even

885
00:56:53,660 --> 00:56:57,340
make sense. And then they start playing it. Right.

886
00:56:57,340 --> 00:57:01,120
They start testing it and then it bull. You know, if people. Right.

887
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,200
It catches fire, so to speak.

888
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,720
But yeah. So, you know, it's a great. I know exactly what station you're

889
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:12,280
talking about. And that PD is the one. One. One of the few left that

890
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:16,039
will take chances like that. Yeah. So it's rare, but it

891
00:57:16,039 --> 00:57:19,480
does happen. But for you to be betting on that as an

892
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,560
artist, that's. That's a long shot.

893
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,890
Oh yeah, 100%. So then it comes back to like, why not

894
00:57:26,890 --> 00:57:29,930
pay to be on a tour if you, you know you're going to get exposure?

895
00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:32,330
Right. It's like paying an influencer to talk about your product.

896
00:57:33,850 --> 00:57:37,450
Right. So full circle back to that question. I Don't think

897
00:57:37,850 --> 00:57:41,690
a. I didn't know people didn't know about that. And I also don't. I don't

898
00:57:41,690 --> 00:57:45,050
think it's that big of a deal. It's just a business arrangement.

899
00:57:45,450 --> 00:57:48,650
Right. Yeah, I just. I had no idea somebody was telling me about that. I

900
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:51,970
was like, wait, what? Yeah. You pay to be on a tour with a big

901
00:57:51,970 --> 00:57:55,450
deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Their crap.

902
00:57:55,770 --> 00:57:59,290
They know that. They don't. It doesn't. If you're on the bill or they put

903
00:57:59,290 --> 00:58:03,050
some other artists as the opener, it doesn't matter. Right?

904
00:58:03,050 --> 00:58:06,570
I mean, it's still gonna be a full

905
00:58:06,650 --> 00:58:10,410
packed show for that band. Yeah, yeah. Very,

906
00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:14,130
very cool. Well, dude, I can't wait to hear the album. I

907
00:58:14,130 --> 00:58:17,930
hope you do some shows that at least come to Nashville, maybe do one. That'd

908
00:58:17,930 --> 00:58:21,010
be cool. That'd be cool. I. I

909
00:58:23,250 --> 00:58:26,850
don't know what the clubs are down there. What's like the rock club? I know

910
00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:30,770
all the country ones are famous for country, but. Well, there's a. I mean,

911
00:58:30,770 --> 00:58:34,290
basement East. The East. And

912
00:58:34,290 --> 00:58:38,130
there's. I'm trying to. I mean, there's Brick by

913
00:58:38,610 --> 00:58:42,130
Brooklyn bowl, which is a gotcha. About a thousand

914
00:58:42,130 --> 00:58:45,850
people or so. 11. Oh, wow. Yeah. I

915
00:58:45,850 --> 00:58:47,810
mean, basement. Basement East. Those are,

916
00:58:49,890 --> 00:58:53,730
you know, a couple hundred. Cab. Nice. Five hundred. Yeah, that'd

917
00:58:53,730 --> 00:58:57,370
be good. Yeah. If you know any rock bands down there that could come open

918
00:58:57,370 --> 00:59:00,130
up for. That'd be. I know a ton of rock bands.

919
00:59:01,890 --> 00:59:04,930
We'll talk, you know, email me or something after we get off.

920
00:59:05,490 --> 00:59:08,850
100. Yeah. Because I want to see you and I want to see the show.

921
00:59:09,250 --> 00:59:12,950
I'd be very, very interested in coming down and open it up

922
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:16,150
for somebody or. Or something of that. You know, of that.

923
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:21,230
Some scenario like that. That'd be awesome. That would be killer. Well,

924
00:59:21,230 --> 00:59:24,470
I appreciate your time, Aaron. Thank you, man, so much again for doing this again.

925
00:59:25,110 --> 00:59:28,710
Yeah. I'll send you the new album when we get off here,

926
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:31,590
so. Love it. I have one more question. I asked you this last two times.

927
00:59:31,590 --> 00:59:34,950
I'm gonna ask you if you have any advice for aspiring artists.

928
00:59:39,250 --> 00:59:42,690
Quit. No, I mean on

929
00:59:42,690 --> 00:59:45,010
rants about all this negative stuff.

930
00:59:50,850 --> 00:59:54,410
So there is a lot

931
00:59:54,410 --> 00:59:58,210
more control over stuff that

932
00:59:58,210 --> 01:00:01,810
you do. And you can kind of. With

933
01:00:02,210 --> 01:00:06,050
technology, it's way cheaper. You can kind of self produce your own music

934
01:00:06,050 --> 01:00:09,500
in your. In your basement and. And you can get

935
01:00:09,980 --> 01:00:10,940
pretty good results

936
01:00:15,020 --> 01:00:18,460
and you can self promote and. And do

937
01:00:18,540 --> 01:00:21,500
things like that, which you couldn't do way back in the day

938
01:00:23,820 --> 01:00:27,500
if you're looking to make any money. It's.

939
01:00:28,380 --> 01:00:32,140
It's tough, dude. There's no back end on. On your

940
01:00:32,140 --> 01:00:35,660
music. There's, you know, everything streamed for free

941
01:00:36,980 --> 01:00:40,580
and shows. It's tough in that regard.

942
01:00:42,740 --> 01:00:46,540
So you got to do it for the most pure of reasons. You have

943
01:00:46,540 --> 01:00:50,380
to really be passionate about music and really have some

944
01:00:50,380 --> 01:00:53,780
sort of artistic vision that you're. You're trying to get

945
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:57,820
across and have some

946
01:00:57,820 --> 01:00:59,860
sort of, like, love of the game,

947
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,040
you know, unless it's some sort of viral sensation or

948
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,800
you're like, you win. I don't even know. I don't know if American

949
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,520
Idols as popular as it used to be, but like, if you won that

950
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,240
or something. But it's tough then. And the marketplace is kind of

951
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,080
flooded with a million different things, so

952
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,360
it's hard for the consumer to know what's what.

953
01:01:29,770 --> 01:01:33,210
But it's tough. I. I think in one, in some regards, like I was saying,

954
01:01:33,210 --> 01:01:37,050
it's easier than it used to be. It. You, you know,

955
01:01:37,610 --> 01:01:41,330
it used. You have to. You used to have to go to a big expensive

956
01:01:41,330 --> 01:01:45,090
studio, so. And instruments used to cost a lot

957
01:01:45,090 --> 01:01:48,610
more than they used to, and things of that nature have

958
01:01:48,610 --> 01:01:51,850
changed to make it easier to do

959
01:01:51,850 --> 01:01:55,510
DIY stuff. But again, the marketplace is flooded

960
01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:59,110
and it's like, you know, we're in this

961
01:01:59,110 --> 01:02:02,630
like, scrolling culture where it's like, oh,

962
01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:05,750
shit, he put out a new record. And then you just scroll down and the

963
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:09,589
next thing is like, you know, my dog died. And then

964
01:02:09,589 --> 01:02:13,390
you scroll down and it's like Donald Trump. And

965
01:02:13,390 --> 01:02:17,150
you scroll down and it's like, you know, it's. It's

966
01:02:17,150 --> 01:02:20,960
just. You're just combined. Your life's projects

967
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,560
are just combined in with scrolling

968
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,160
to the next thing, and it just kind of becomes. Everything's these

969
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,760
short clips of like, you

970
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,600
know, like, I made a video for that Tom Petty

971
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,240
song I just put out. And the short,

972
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,880
you know, it was an interesting experiment to see. I put out a little short

973
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,370
clip of the video and that was

974
01:02:48,010 --> 01:02:51,130
viewed and more successful than the actual video,

975
01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:55,890
you know, so I'm like, so we're living in that culture

976
01:02:55,890 --> 01:02:59,370
where it's just. You're just

977
01:03:00,170 --> 01:03:03,970
part of everything else that everybody else is putting

978
01:03:03,970 --> 01:03:07,810
out. And it's just kind of, you know, it's more of

979
01:03:07,810 --> 01:03:10,810
a. You're a blip on the radar.

980
01:03:13,060 --> 01:03:16,660
But, you know, this is the world we live in. So I think it's harder

981
01:03:16,660 --> 01:03:20,340
in that regard to really punch through and, and really

982
01:03:20,340 --> 01:03:23,780
connect with people because there's just a million

983
01:03:23,940 --> 01:03:26,820
other things you're scrolling by. And

984
01:03:30,180 --> 01:03:32,580
I don't know, I hopefully all this political

985
01:03:33,940 --> 01:03:37,060
calms down at some point because it's just been like,

986
01:03:40,590 --> 01:03:43,310
what's it been? Like eight, nine years of just

987
01:03:44,430 --> 01:03:48,270
crazy. Like, you know, when we were kids, it was

988
01:03:48,270 --> 01:03:51,630
just like, you know, Ronald Reagan was president and

989
01:03:52,350 --> 01:03:55,630
it seemed fine. No one worried

990
01:03:56,350 --> 01:04:00,030
it was it right. Bill Clinton was president and there was a little

991
01:04:00,030 --> 01:04:03,830
bit of like, some stuff that people got jazzed

992
01:04:03,830 --> 01:04:07,550
up about, but it wasn't overwhelming. And it didn't like, have the sense

993
01:04:07,550 --> 01:04:11,360
of like, all is

994
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,960
unwell it. Back in the day, it was just like

995
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,280
the president was who he was and it was nothing crazy. It was

996
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,480
just kind of people went about their business and it wasn't

997
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,080
overwhelming and you weren't bombarded with all this stuff and

998
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,120
people and all this divisiveness and stuff. So, you know,

999
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,760
there's that. I don't know. Again, I think that just comes back to the music

1000
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,970
thing where it's like you're just kind of

1001
01:04:38,170 --> 01:04:41,610
feathered in with everything else that's going on in the world,

1002
01:04:41,770 --> 01:04:45,330
or you're feathered in with everybody

1003
01:04:45,330 --> 01:04:48,890
else's kind of posts about random stuff. And

1004
01:04:49,050 --> 01:04:52,770
so I think in that regard it's harder to punch through

1005
01:04:52,770 --> 01:04:55,370
unless you're kind of a bigger artist or

1006
01:04:56,010 --> 01:04:59,210
grandfathered in from back in the day where your

1007
01:04:59,610 --> 01:05:03,210
brand name means something to somebody, you know,

1008
01:05:09,220 --> 01:05:10,580
bringing it backward,

1009
01:05:14,420 --> 01:05:17,940
bringing it backward, bringing it backward,

1010
01:05:18,100 --> 01:05:21,620
bringing it backward, bringing it backward,

1011
01:05:21,780 --> 01:05:23,460
bring it backwards.