BiB: Joshua Aubrey Jackson (Make Sure) – From Bedroom Recordings to a Tooth & Nail Record Deal: His Unfiltered Journey

0:10 Bring it backwards. Bring it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Why, hello, it is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we hung out with Josh of the project make sure over Zoom Video. Josh was born and raised in Alabama and talks about how he got into music. He told us about some of the earlier projects he was in and then eventually starting his own solo project, which was called Something before he changed it into make sure. And he talks about that process and why it changed the name. We hear about the prior releases to this new album, how he was signed to Tooth and Nail Records and again, all about this new album which is called June, and how it was the first time he worked kind of directly with Tooth and Nail. The album prior was complete and he signed with Tooth and Nail, so this time he already had the label. And he talks about putting this new album together. So check that out. It's called June and you could check out the video version of the interview with Josh on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel on YouTube, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok

1:40 at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google podcasts, it would be amazing if you follow us there as well and hook us up with a five star review. We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It Backwards with Make sure. Hey, how's it going, Josh? Hey, how are you? I'm doing well. My name is Adam. It's nice to. To meet you. Thanks for doing this. Nice to meet you, Adam. Sweet. So this is a podcast about you and your journey in music. We'll talk about the album you have coming out next. Next week, I believe, right? Yes, on the 12th. Very exciting, man. Sweet. So you're originally from Alabama, Is that what I saw? Yeah, and I'm still here.

2:29 Opelika, Alabama, which is becoming more and more popular. I think Waxahachie just had a song come out and she referenced it. So. Okay. We're in Boston, Alabama. I'm. I just moved to Nashville like three. Oh no way and a half years ago. So yeah, all the way down to like Orange beach or whatever. But I don't sweet area as much. Yeah. Yeah. So Opelika is. Most people would associate it with Auburn University, which is where I went to college, since on my alma mater, but because most people know about football, so. Right. I was gonna say big, big football school there. And we've, We've. We live and breathe and bleed football over here.

3:14 So is it Tides. Is that somewhere else? Oh, Roll Tide is the. That's. That's the arch nemesis of Auburn University. That's. So that's Tuscaloosa, which would be the Alabama Crimson Tide. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Over here is Auburn University. Oh, okay. So I'm totally messed that up. I'm sorry. No, it's. You're. You're fine. I just knew Alabama and football. That's most people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's amazing. So what about music as far as. Do you come from a musical household or. How did you get into. To music originally? Yeah, we.

3:55 There really wasn't many instruments going on at my house. I think like, my sisters played in the marching band or something. But no one really. No one was really like a dedicated musician. But we always love to listen to records. And so I've like, music was something we all sort of shared an interest in, as in like my, you know, my older siblings. I was. I'm the youngest of four and so my older siblings would, you know, we would all burn each other's CDs and stuff and they would, you know, they would have stuff like the Cure or Oasis and Radiohead, whatever. And so I just had all these. My older siblings being like, this is the good stuff. You should listen to this. And it stuck. And so, man, once I got to be around like 12 or 13, I got a guitar and just started messing around with it and wanted to. It was more of a thing where it's like, I just want to know how to play songs. I want to know how to play the songs that I like to listen to. And so.

5:03 And then eventually that, that this kind of became my own thing. So. Yeah, but nobody really had a. My parents weren't musical. My dad's side of the family. It's funny, it's like his. He has brothers and stuff that are like in bands and they teach music. They're super devoted to it, but it like skipped my dad for some reason, but then like made its way over to me. I don't know. But that's cool though. But yeah, at least your. Your older siblings like good bands, right? They could have been down trashed you. Yeah, but I mean, Oasis and Radiohead and Cure and they had good taste. They did. They sure Did. Yeah. So I'm thankful for that too. So. Yeah, that's cool. So you said 12, 13. You got a guitar and what was that for? Like a birthday present or like, how did you get the guitar? I. Well, I think so. I think my parents got. Got it for me when I was 11 and I still have it around here somewhere, I think.

5:58 But it was like a. It was a Washburn lion, basically like a Target guitar. And then you buy it for 100. Bucks and strap bag all that together. Yeah, the pack. Right on. Yeah. And I. I remember I took guitar lessons and the guy I was taking it from was a guy from church. And I'm not knocking this, but just as an 11 year old, I didn't really care about playing, you know, the 90s worship hits. And that was pretty much all he was trying to teach me. So that, that's why I made a point to say later on when it was like, it was like my idea for being like, yeah, but I want to know how to play 1979 by the smashing Pumpkins. And so I'm gonna look it up on Ultimate Guitar and figure that out and. Okay.

6:45 Yeah. Because usually with the teacher, they're either going to teach you what you want to learn or scales or. Yeah. You know, which is funny now because that's what I. That's what I do for a living now as I teach music. So I always like, I'm like with the kids or whatever, especially with guitar, I'm like, look, I don't want to. I don't want to like force you to learn this or that song. Like, you need to tell me what you want to learn so that you can have fun. And that way we actually both have fun. Because I'm watching their eyes light up because they figured out how to play their favorite song and stuff like that. So that's amazing. Yeah, that's the way to teach it. I was always thinking that, like with piano too, you hear about people going to piano lessons and it's just like such a drag like that, you know, sit up, then play the whatever. Yeah. Instead of like, I want to learn how to play whatever piano man like Billy Oller, you know, whatever it may be like, I want to learn something cool. I don't want to learn this song that I never heard or could care less about. All right. I figured like, that would be such a money maker to be like, all right, come in and I'll teach you any pop song or whatever you wanted to learn. So that's a cool way to do it. Yeah, it's a lot more fun that way. Yeah, I'm sure you get to learn some cool songs too that way that you. Maybe I do. It keeps me sharp. Keeps me sharp, man. There's especially the most fun is when you got these like metal head kids that will come in, they want to learn these insane like dream theater songs. And I'm just like, oh man, this is beyond what I'm really able to do. But I, I, I admire, you know, I admire that he's, that they're wanting to try that out. So yeah, I was gonna say if it's a new. A beginner and they hand you a dream

8:17 theater like riff. You're just like, this might be two months of lessons just to get the beginning of this piece down. But yeah. Hey, shoot, shoot high. Shoot for the skies. Right on. So you started to do that. I mean eventually learning how to play other people's songs. And when do you start writing your own songs? That would have been, gosh, probably like 14 or 15. So I started out with a, with a friend of mine named Thomas. And we've. And most of the time we were hanging out in high school making just goofy YouTube videos and stuff. But he also had garage band on his computer. So we, I was like, well maybe we can try and make some like really epic like instrumental music. We were really into Godspeed you, Black Emperor. And so they're this like post rock band, just really epic songs and stuff and that are like 30 minutes each. And so we as you know, 15 year olds were like, we can do that. And so there, there are records out there that probably you can find them on band camp or something. But in there are sort of experiments when we were in high school trying to come up with these really epic ambient, an instrumental, whatever. But there was also like a bunch of weird stuff. Like we would. We sample. I remember we sampled like a five minute like speech by like Ron Paul or something like that and put it in a. And put a song. We're

9:51 like, this is. We're saying something. I don't know what we're saying. We're saying something. And anyway I remember like we burned CDs we're like handing out to our friends and. But I. So then, but after like a year or two of doing the really weird stuff, I was like, which was fun and I'm glad that we did that. I remember thinking like, like I want to do, I want to do music that's not just soaked in reverb and a bunch of weird Effects and things I want to try and make like a folk record. And so I started a project named after an Andrew Bird song called Fiery Crash. And that was my project for a few years.

10:35 And I think the best, honestly the best record I think that came out of that project was, is called Practice Shots. And I'm still, I'm maybe 11 or 12 years removed from that one. And I'm still pretty proud of that project. There's some things I would change because I was like 17 when I made it, but. But I'm still pretty proud of that one and. But just you on those things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was kind of a solo thing. I just made it in my bedroom at my parents house and. And then eventually I, I kind of got tired of that name Fiery Crash because it was just. If you googled it, you would. You had to kind of dig to find my band camp and. Yeah, but before that, horrible news, horrible news. Articles about people dying and car crashes and stuff. So like page 5 of Google search like, yeah, oh, there he is. Yeah, so.

11:30 And it just sucked telling like, like, you know, there'd be like older people at church or whatever. They'd be like, so I hear you make music. How do I find that? And I'd be like, well, just Google Fiery Crash. And, and it was just such an awkward conversation. So, and so eventually I was like, okay, let me think of something. So I eventually settled on this name called Make Sure. And that one just felt like it's kind of short, sweet, zippy. And it could be a lot of things, I think so, you know, and, and as with most band names, it's just like, why'd you pick it? Well, it wasn't taken, so I guess I just kind of go with that. But. Right. So there's not really like a deeper meaning behind it.

12:11 Maybe, maybe someday they're all think of one. But just make sure you check us out. Yeah. Hey, there you go. Yeah, a lot of people mishear me. They'll go mixture. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Make, make sure. And. But so that's the name of Worth now. And that's the project that got signed with Tooth and Nail. So I always tell people that because I get the record deal. I said, well, it's just kind of like anything with, you know, or how'd you get the girlfriend? How'd you get the. Whatever, you know, I'm like, well, it's just like shooting free throws in basketball. You just, just keep going, man. But the, the point of that is that you just kept trying, you know. Right.

12:53 So you miss 100, 100% of the shots you don't take. Was it like. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Fear of striking out keep you from playing the game. There you go. Yeah. I was going to ask you how you got the. The deal. So you started make sure. And was it similar to Fiery Crash or did you trying to change the sound up entirely? Yeah, yeah, I think make sure it's maybe a little more emo. Okay. Well. And as in like people would say was I like American Football or Death Cab for Cutie kind of that sort of stuff. I get that comparison the most People say I sound like Ben Gibbard, which I take it as a compliment because. That was a legend. Yeah, he's a legend. And with American Football that's a cool reference. Not that band doesn't get the respect they deserve, I don't think. Unless it's more in the indie scene. Dude, I've seen them live.

13:46 We got to. We played audio feed last year and that's up in Urbana I think which is really close to champagne. So we, we made the. The pilgrimage to the American Football house. That's on the. The album, their first album cover. And no way. They were so cool. I mean it's just a. It's just a dumpy old house at this point. But it's. It's really cool because I mean it's just like a college. Just like you would find in any town is kind of a. Just an old college dorm looking house. But. But it's. You know, it was so cool though. And they have in the. In the window they have like a little flag that has the. The. The first album cover on it. Do they still to this day.

14:26 Wow. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it was cool to see. And yeah, they put an album out a few years ago which was like pretty rad. I was like. I felt like I didn't you know, hear from them in a long time and I'm like, wait, what? American Football have a new album. They're still doing stuff. I. We could go on a tangent about that. I really like Owen, his Mike Cancella solo project and I think the reason that the. The so so called comeback records I guess of the American Football because they didn't, they didn't put out a record for long time and maybe. Yeah. And then they put that album out. Yeah. Not that long ago. To me it was just. It's still good because it was like Mike Kinsella was still doing music for for all those years, he didn't. I think with a lot of times those bands that will come back 20 years later and it's kind of like, what is this? It's not the same thing. But it was because he. He was consistent with his stuff.

15:21 And then it was like, well, this is not a big deal for me to just make another American football record. So I think that they. The fact that he was still in the game, you know, all those years later really helped out. And I think they're. They're great records, so. And you said, aren't you playing this year's audio? Yeah, yeah, we'll be there. Awesome. Yep. Yeah, it was a lot of fun last year and I. I'm looking forward to doing it again. Nice. Well, so, yeah. When do you decide to change the name to. To make sure. Was it a few years later? Were you in college at this point and did you go to college for music? I went to college for media studies, like communications and stuff, but neither here nor there. The. Yeah, it was in. It was in college, I think.

16:10 So I. I had this vision to make a record called Walk Home instead. And that was the first. That's the first make sure album. And the. I spent four or five years like demoing and doing stuff for that and it. Yeah, but that, that was during college. I decided to go with the name and put out that first record. Well, we put out an EP and that's called Town Runner and that one has more of that, like I said, sort of the emo indie rock flavor. There's kind of some mathy stuff going on and I guess. Yeah, I mean you would hope this with every project, but I make sure to me is like the most finely tuned. Like I'm gonna be the most perfectionistic I can be. And it needs to sound as like high quality as it can. Whereas a lot of the other stuff I did was kind of home recorded. Not as.

17:10 Not as sharp sounding, but so anyway. But yeah, I just wanted it to have the pretty. Pretty high quality stuff and. And that. That was. That's been the goal and still. Still is the goal with. With Make Sure. So was that first. Was that first CP recorded then. You. Did it like in a studio and everything wasn't like. Yeah, yeah. And the same guys I still work with today. Clubman Studios, it's in Blairsville, which is not. Not too far from Nashville, I guess, but a couple hours maybe, but up near where the Blue Ridge Mountains are. If you've ever been in that. That area, it's beautiful. Up there. And I have a buddy named Jimmy Smith. And it's half of this, it's half of his. His house, and the other half is the studio. And that's like one of my all time favorite places to go because you just. And the. In the. In these beautiful mountain ranges and you're making records and that's just. It's so much fun. I can get. I can get lost.

18:12 Lost in the weeds there. For sure. That's awesome. For sure. So then you. Yeah, you did your. Was Walk Home instead. Your first, like, full album. As make sure. Yeah, yeah, as make sure. And then that one you put out what, on your own before you got signed to. To the now? Yeah, yeah, that was an independent release. And then the next one was called Ninjutsu. That's where you and that did. You did that whole process of getting signed to them and then working on that album, releasing it, because that came out in 2021. Were you like, in the middle of the pandemic? Was that kind of an album that you've written during that time? And is that when you linked up with Tooth and Nail? Yeah, so it was.

18:57 I think. Well, pretty much the album was done. It was. We. I did it all through the pandemic. We were working remote, so I just had a whole bunch of time on my hands and yeah, just recorded it, finished it, got it mastered. And then I. The. The girl that sang a bunch of harmonies on that, her name's Marina. And she. By the time we finished it, she'd heard it. She's like, oh, you. Are you going to send this around? And I was like, well, I just figured I'd do what I usually do and just kind of throw it on the Internet. And there you go.

19:37 She's like, oh, you're. I think she. I think she was like, you're stupid if you don't, like, send this around to somebody. She's like. And also kind of like, we put a lot of work into this. So, yeah, she's like, let's just not on Spotify or Fan Camp and call it a day. So. So then I. Yeah. And again with the free throw thing, I was like, okay, I'm just going to come up with like as many record labels as I can think of that might take this. And yeah, so anyway, and I just was emailing people. I have a buddy that works for Secretly Canadian, the. That record label. And so I, I reached out to him. I was like, all right, if I'm actually going to send this around, what would I Do. And so he kind of gave me some pointers and stuff and. Yeah.

20:26 And so I. But eventually Tooth and Nail, they just. I got like a text one day or something and I thought it was one of my friends messing with me because I was like, this is. That's crazy. You know, there's a lot of bands and records I love from. From that. That label. Yeah, they have some huge, huge artist. I mean, there. So. So I feel. I was. I still kind of, you know, pinch myself. I'm like, this. This doesn't feel real sometimes. It's. But it's. It's awesome. I'm. I'm so happy it happened. So. Yeah, they. But it. But the record was already finished, so I just like sent it to them and it was basically just put it out. Yeah, I was like, do you like it? Check yes or no. And they. They checked yes, thankfully. And. And yeah.

21:14 And I. And then we just sort of coordinated with releasing it and stuff and. Awesome. Who. Who are you talking with? My neighbor is an ANR for Tooth and Nail. No way. Wait, who are they? His name's Brian Ortiz. Is that who assigned you? No way. Yeah. That's awesome. That's so cool. I gotta tell him that I chatted with you. He signed a couple other people I've spoke to going to the nail because I worked through Adam Splitter, but they do a lot of the PR for. For them. So. Yeah, I know He. He does that in the. The More. The full Christian side. What is it called, CBE or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

21:58 So that texted you and said, hey, yeah, let's do this. Yeah. He's like, hey, Brian from Tooth and Nail, can we. Can we talk? And I was like, yes, yes, we can. Yeah. He lives right down the road from me, and my son and his son are like, like best friends. Oh, that's awesome. So good. That's crazy. Cool, man. So then, yeah, so he gets you signed up, you. You guys put that record out and. And you're. And you just put out another. Or you're about to put out. That's right. Yeah. So tell me about this. This album. And since this would be the first time you technically were working with them as far as putting the album together, because before it was like, this is done. Do you want it? Right, Correct. Yeah. So this time around, it's.

22:42 Let's work on an album. And yeah. Was that different? I mean, they basically were just like, we'll give you what you need for studio time. But I think one of the things I, I admire about the label is they don't, they're not, you know, they're not whipping me with, you know, mandates to say it's got to sound like this and you got to do this thing. And there has to be trap rap, hi hats in there somewhere. You know, they don't say any of that stuff. So I just kind of told. I remember I actually, I had a phone call with Brian maybe a year or two ago, and it was like, this is my vision for the record. And he goes, like, sounds great. Let's do it.

23:22 You know, it's just like. Like what? You know, he. No second thoughts for him. He was just like, okay, cool. Sounds good. And, but with that, I mean, I think there's just a lot of trust. Like, they, they're as in, they're kind of like, hey, look, kid, I think you're, you're probably perfectionistic enough anyway, so we'll just let you do your thing. Do what you want. That's cool. Yeah, but they, and I think that they have, like, if I needed a mastering engineer or anything, they would, they would provide that. I, I, I like to use Dave Wilton out in Colorado. He does, he's a friend of mine and he does really great work, and so he's mastered the last two records.

24:05 But with stuff like that, I think with anything, they, they would be happy to provide stuff if I needed it, but a lot of times it's, there's. I have enough local connections anyway that I'm able to put stuff together. So they're a little more hands off when it comes to those things. Yeah, they're, they're just, they're like, whatever, you know, you turn it in now. If I turn in, I, I feel like if I turn in, like a polka record or something, they'd be a little thrown off, you know, not that I would ever. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this doesn't sound. Let's reconsider what we're doing here. Yeah, yeah. So. But, you know, this. I, I think everybody's been happy with, with what I turned in, so. That's awesome, man. So tell me about the album then. Going to the album was the concept.

24:48 Yes. So the album's called June, and I wanted to make something that effectively is just, just a really immediate album, that it would be like the kind of thing you'd want to put on in the car and just go for a drive and. Because that's how I've been listening to music a lot in the last couple of years is, you know, what what music, what songs do I really like to just put on in the car? And it. And I just take a ride around town and, and just soak it in and enjoy it. But also things that study, things that I want to like, play over and over again. So whether that's the Goo Goo Dolls or Oasis or, you know, you name it. But, but I think that there's like, there are elements to be studied about that.

25:38 So there's. I studied a lot of like what makes up the skeleton of these songs that I have enjoyed since childhood. And as a 28 year old I'm still like listening to them over and over again. And so, yeah, I just did a whole lot of looking into it and, and trying to implement some of those strategies into my own writing with the songs I was making for the record and, and just basically I just make a really polished kind of alternative pop rock record. I think I was thinking, I was like, I want it. I want it to sound like it's this lost record from 1998 or something that it. And it. And it has resurfaced. It's like, oh, this was going to come out back then, but. But here it is now. You know, I don't know if it actually sounds like that, but I think it does. I was going to say it has that like, kind of tones to it. Yeah. And I got the first.

26:39 I think it's. Maybe it's the first song album, the piano ballad that kind of starts it and like just the guitars and like the other sounds in there kind of remind me of. Yeah, that 90s alternative kind of style. Well, good. I'm so glad you said that. That's reassuring. So we, My gosh, I mean, we reference so much stuff of just. I mean, my favorite era is going to be the 90s also. I love the 80s and 70s and 2000s and all that stuff. But in particular, I mean, there's like, there's just, you know, I don't know how nerdy we want to get, but there's, there's. There's like a way that like drums are mixed now like in 2024 that I hate. I don't like it because it's, it's like everything's like so. And this is my opinion, you know, so people, if they want, but like, it's like I'm not going to mix my record where the drums are just like slapping you in the face as hard as possible and they almost just sound like fake. There's this artifice to it that I don't like, but then you go back and listen to, like, the first Audio Slave record and it's. The drums are kicking your butt, but they're not overbearing.

27:50 Yeah. It's even like the, you know, the earlier. The Nirvana album. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's like the, there's kind of some, like, for all of those 90s bands, really. There's, there's, like. It doesn't sound perfect. Like, the tones aren't perfect. Yeah. Which I think is cool. Yeah, yeah. There's. The newer drums are really, like. Because the EQ is perfect and everything can be like, like, you know, warped into this really perfect sound. Like the kick's gonna sound the same every single time. Or the, you know, like, I think there's something cool about having a little grit to, to those elements. Yeah. And, and it's not even that, like, I'm against using samples and stuff like that because that's on the record. I mean, there's, there's places where we use that. I, I, in fact, I love using a kick sample because I think that that helps a lot as well. What people don't know, maybe, is if you go back and listen to these records mixed by Andy Wallace and Butch Vig and stuff like that. It's funny now because with AI you can like, there's, there's all these videos now. You can find the isolated drums from Smells Like Teen Spirit or whatever, and you listen to this stuff and you're like, shoot, they were using a kick sample like that. A lot of these things are. They're more robotic than we thought. But at the same time, I'm like, as long as it was a real performance at one time. Right. I don't care.

29:12 Yeah. It's like if, but if I need to take a kick sample to replace my flubby sounding kick drum that I recorded that we just didn't get the tone right. But if I can fix that in post, but still maintain the, like, humanity of the performance, I'm going to do that. So I think what, what, what gets on my nerves is like, we joked a lot about, while we were mixing this album because Smashing Pumpkins was releasing their album Autumn, which is the most, like, most recent thing that they've done, and it is the most quantized, just compressed to high heaven, just, Just not, not. They lost the plot, you know, it's just not the same. They lost quite a while ago. Yeah, they did.

29:58 But, hey, if I met Billy Corgan today, I'd give him a high five and be like, dude, oh yeah. It's like one of the thank you so much. Writers of all time. But yeah, but it's either way quite a bit. Yeah, so. But yeah, listening to like, their, their records from the 90s and stuff, you're just like, this is some of the best mixed music I've ever heard in my life. And, and I, I now. So that to me is like the standard of, you know, their, their records from like 91 to 2000. I'm like, that's. That, that's the gold standard for me. It's what I want my albums to sound like. And so. But yeah, there's, there's just so many like, tricks and stuff. Like, I'm not, I'm not opposed to quantizing. I'm not opposed to using, using technology to, to fix mistakes and stuff like that.

30:46 I'm not even. I'm really not opposed to Auto Tune either. But all the stuff is just like, am I using these tricks to make it lifeless and, and sound like a robot made it, or am I doing it to just, you know, sand down the rough edges and, and polish it where it needs to be polished, but, but still have an intention to maintain the humanity of it all at the end of the day? Because there's some places where you need to leave the mistakes in. Because the mistakes, like you said, can be really cool and make it feel, make it feel human. Right, Right, right. No, I, I love it. It's. It's funny you brought up Auto. Have you heard like, TI sing normally?

31:28 Yeah. It's insane how good he is. It's like, why do you make your voice robotic all the time? Yeah, well, I think people, a lot of people don't realize there's a way to sing into. Like, if I think nowadays I sing, I'm like, I, I'm consciously aware that there's gonna be put on this at the, at the back end. Right Enough to. Where it's like, like, to me, I see Auto Tune as like if you go bowling and you have those little, like, safeguards up. Yeah, that's really all it's supposed to be bumpers. You know, it's like, okay, I was trying to hit that E at one point, but I fell a little shy of where I was supposed to go. But the, with the computer program, you can just. It just kind of nudges it in and fixes that.

32:13 But if it's a thing where it's like, dude, you just can't sing, you have no idea what you're doing, then it becomes glaringly obvious. That auto tune was used because it's like over correcting and it's. Yeah, it sounds way robotic. Once you're. If you're totally off. If you're just saying something and had no clue what you're doing you. When it fixes it it just doesn't sound right. You're like yeah. And one, one thing do two. I used Melodyne to. Not on my voice but on. Because there's a lot of pedal steel in this record and pedal still. I'm like unless you are the most. I'm not saying this guy, the guy who. The session musician did an amazing job but pedal still is one of those things that it's. It can be a cent or two off and to my ears which are pretty sensitive. I'm like there's that needs to be fixed, you know. So I got, I got Melodyne where you can do like polyphonic tuning where there's. You can. You can scan in like all of the notes that occurred and whatever instrumental performance and you can like go in and like correct, you know, whatever notes. Need to be corrected. But as I was doing that and I'm like hearing back the corrected version of the, you know, the performance and stuff and then, and then you kind of realize like everybody be doing this.

33:34 Like everybody's doing this. All of the, you know. And now I'll listen to like you know, million dollar albums by this or that popular artist and I'm. And I'm like shoot, they're doing it. They're using Melodyne to you know. And so it's like if the pros are doing it then it's almost kind of silly to not. Not utilize the tools that, that they're using. But again if it's like, if it's just like a crappy performance altogether which this was not. That's like I said the and. And the. Because I think that there's. You can hear something getting overcorrected where it was like it was just really poor to begin with and we had to salvage it. But that was never the case I don't think with any of the. The performances with this record.

34:23 Jimmy Smith and, and Michael Minkoff, the guys I worked with, their philosophy is like we need to get it as good as we can going into the box so that we don't have to like you know, really 10 spend too much time polishing and overcorrecting on the back end and the post production stuff. So it's kind of this philosophy is like needs to be as good as possible when we record it so we're not having to play doctor at the. @ the end there. Right. And I think that this record really shows that. I mean, just listening back to it, I'm really happy with a lot of the tones we got and. Yeah. So I. I think I would confidently say at this point in my career that this is the.

35:12 This is the most, like, polished and clean sounding album, but at the same time, there's still these rough edges and stuff that are there intentionally. But I think that this is probably the best. Sonically, this is the best sounding album that I've. I've done so far and I'm really proud of. Proud of the work we did. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. The songs I've heard thus far are, Are killer, man. Yeah. Thank you. And then the album coming out in a week. Are you doing like a release show or. I know you're doing obviously the, the. The one festival again, but yeah, we're. We're gonna have like a. A party here in town and I. So one thing that's going on in my life right now is at the end of this month, I'm getting married. Wow.

36:01 Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. And so Catherine, my soon to be wife, is throwing. She's throwing a party for the album release. And so I'll probably play a couple of songs or whatever, but I think it's mostly she just. She's like, I don't want to stress you out, you know, like, we're just gonna have. We might listen through the record or it might be on in the background, but it's mostly just going to be kind of a. A celebration with friends and everybody to kind of just she. Because I mean, she's like. She's like, I know you better than anybody. I know that you've nearly driven yourself insane trying to finish this record. So we're gonna. We're gonna celebrate and, and just throw a little, little party with some friends to, to commemorate the occasion and all the hard work. Very, very cool.

36:49 Well, I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Josh, for doing this. Yeah, man. Yeah. It was just fun talking to you. Yeah. I do have one more question for you. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists. I would say just keep, keep working and keep, keep honing your craft. That might be kind of a boring answer, but I think, like, the best thing to be doing is to like, challenge yourself on, on songwriting and stuff like that. Always be thinking, what can I do better? And to. And to really, really study the songs that inspire you figure out. Don't. Don't be just saying I like this song because it sounds great. You know, Figure out what is it exactly about the songs that you enjoy? You know, I like it that this. This one song, it goes to a minor third at the bridge, and then I like the Corporation there. I think that really speaks to me. Then borrow it and try it in your own song, you know, and an experiment. So, yeah, learn the tricks that the guys that you really enjoy. Learn their tricks and then see if you can implement them in your own songs and experiment and just see what you get on the other side.

38:20 You bring it backward, bring it backward, bring it backward? Bring it back, bring it backward?