BiB: Gigi Perez – From Losing Her Record Deal to Going Viral Again (Her Wild Comeback Story!)

0:00 What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to catch up with Gigi Perez over Zoom Video. We had Gigi on over two years ago now. The first time we had her on, she didn't even have out the ep how to Catch a Falling Knife. I think Figurines maybe was the most. Recent single at the time, so she hadn't even announced the episode. So it's really cool to kind of. Catch up with Gigi. Really picked up where we left off. She talked a lot about that, that ep, how to Catch a Falling Knife, what it was like to lose her deal with the record label she was on at the time, and how that really pushed her to move back in with her parents and learn how to engineer and record herself, and that's what she's done for this new album. So Gigi talks to us about the process of this new album, obviously the success of the song Sailor, and really everything she's gone through over the past two and a half years. Now you can watch the interview with Gigi on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing. If you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Tik Tok at Bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google Podcasts, please rate and review the podcast. It helps us out tremendously. We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, we're Wherever you listen to podcasts. We'Re

1:31 Bringing It Backwards with Gigi Perez. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backward. Bringing it backward. Hi, Gigi. How are you? Good, how are you? Sorry, my wi fi in this hotel doesn't work at all. I don't know why. So I'm. I'm on the awesome iPhone camera. It looks great. How are you doing? I'm great. Thank you so much for doing this again. Of course. It's been so long.

2:15 I know. It's been a couple of years, I think. Yeah. I want to say, I think it was like November, just 2022 when we last spoke. I think Figurines was out. You didn't have the EP out. Nothing. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. So a lot to catch up on. I'm excited. Yes. Yes, for sure. Awesome. Well, you kind of know the drill. We got your backstory in the first interview, really about how you got into music and everything. But just. I'm going to recap it a little bit and then kind of pick up where we left off and obviously talk about the album and everything else. Awesome. Cool. So yeah, you're born in Jersey, but you moved to West Palm Beach, I think at six, Right.

2:59 Okay. And then you ended up attending Berkeley School of Music. But I didn't get the story on how you. I know like we were talking about. I think you said you were like 16, you went to the. The camp. Right. You went to the Berkeley's camp and. But how did you actually apply to the school? Did you have to do an audition process? Because I know a lot of people that went there that had do that. Yeah, some were like, yeah, they just let me in. Or some were like, oh man, it was the most intense thing ever. Oh my goodness. I get into. How did I get it? I lived for the process. It was so. Was very stressful. I mean like, you're like 17. You're like. Your life depends on this. I also knew I wasn't getting into other schools. I was like, I applied to, um. And I was like, I don't have the SAT score for that.

3:46 That's funny. I'm not going to get you. But you wanted to go for music, right? Just in. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, has this, this program called Frost that I was also interested in. Okay. But Berkeley was like the dream for me. I was like. When I went there when I was 16, it was. It was the first time I met, you know, young gays like me. So I was like, you know, losing my mind and of course the music. But the process, if I remember, it's like you prepare for an audition so you. I don't even think I needed like a resume or like a.

4:27 I don't think you need. What are those things? Like the college statements or whatever the heck they're called. Yeah, like a letter recommendation or something like that. Yeah. I think you do need letter of Rex. And then you. All you might need like to write your life story or you don't. It was optional. I definitely did it. I was like ready. Or like writing my life story. And then, you know, for the audition you have to. It's. There's a. There's a section that is like identifying intervals. That's one. So I had this app called Tenuto that I always did. And it's like you could just like identify intervals and all this stuff. I did so well in that audition that they placed me in ear Training, too, which was so bad, it was the worst thing. I told him, you got. You guys have the wrong girl. Like, I'm not supposed to be an ear. Training, too. I don't know how to read music. Don't put me in your training, too. I just know how to identify a perfect fifth. So it's.

5:24 There's that, you know, you do us. You do two songs of your choice, and then I think one classical piece. Did you do your own songs? I did, yes. I did this one song that I was obsessed with that I wrote my senior year called Questions. Okay. And then I sang Vienna by Billy Joel. And then I think a third thing. And then I think at one point I was singing Anything Worth Holding on to by Scott Allen. Okay. But that was like, I. So I do the audition. It was the best time of my life. You also do an interview, so they ask you and, you know, question. Like, I. I remember, like, I would answer the questions in the shower. Like, I was so, like, dead. Yes. Like, and it wasn't even so much like, I know. And I feel this way anytime I speak to anyone. Like, I don't know. I feel like I have a lot to say. And so it does feel like there is this just following the. The flow of, I guess the intuition. And I really love that because that was the first time I was really doing that. And I realized how much I liked talking about things, you know, to people. Like somebody asking me a question, like, oh, yes, let me.

6:38 You know. So that was me at, like, 18, and I loved it. And then I. You, like, sit in, like, this. This big kind of like cafe room thing. I don't know. I look back at the time, I was like, I feel like I'm so blessed. I've. I've seen a lot of things by the age of 25, and it blows my mind to think about how incredible and blessed I've been. And I think back to, like, me at 17, who. You know, I've seen, like, a lot of beaches, but, like, I haven't seen really the world, if that makes sense. Something like being in a. In a college room full of kids that are all, like, anxious and sweating because they want to get into their dream school. And, like, yeah, it was just. It was so exciting. It was so new, and I loved it. I. I remember leaving the audition be like, I got in, you know, like, just feeling like I got. I'm. I'm like, I got in. And then I think they send you. Like, a letter or something that you got in. Yeah.

7:47 That must have been a big day. Yeah, they did, they sent and I did early action. So I got. I was like one of the first. One of the first, I guess, batch of people that got in and that was also like. Yeah. So that happened. And then I ended up deferring for a year to save some money, get a job and you know, try to like not break the back of the financial break. Oh yeah, 100%. So I don't understand. It's so expensive. It's crazy. And so I deferred a year and then I had to re audition and I was like, okay. Yeah. And I was like, I'll do it again.

8:32 I definitely was like, damn, I have to re audition. But that, you know, I did better the second time. And then, you know, I went to Berkeley and that was that. Yeah, that's the audition process. And if anybody needs help getting into Berkeley, I got you. Yeah. Because I've heard so many different stories of it. That's so cool. I mean, the fact that you played. Did you go in as a songwriting major? Is that what you wanted to do? My, my. So you go in with like a focus of your instrument and mine was voice. And then I never made it to like actually doing the specialties because it was like eight months in. I also didn't know how to like declare my major.

9:12 It was so complicated. Like, I don't know, like I. Maybe it's just like natural selection, but like I did not know I would go into the college, you know, administration or something, the office. And I didn't know what to like. Yeah, I didn't feel like I had the. I don't know if it's that I had the guidance or that I didn't. Did I apply myself? I don't know. Sure. Well, I mean, you ended up. You got hit with COVID during your time there and then. Yeah. You had massive moments on Tick Tock and got signed to a major label. So it was like, that's kind of probably the goal when you graduate.

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12:17 But yeah, so last time we spoke, like I said we, you we, we, you know, we talked about, you know, Seline and the viral moment on that song and obviously you had another follow up moment with Sometimes and but you had just released Figurines so I don't know, you know, I kind of want to hear about. So you put out your first EP in 2023 and then obviously the new album. So going from there like just, I guess we'll just pick up with, with that ep. Like tell me, I don't even think you had announced the EP yet. I think you did after the fact. Yeah, so it's actually crazy because the EP came out I think two years ago yesterday. Oh my gosh. So it's like fully the anniversary and then my album came out like three days before that. Two years Friday.

13:08 Yeah. Yeah. So it's like none of this is planned, but it's definitely like a definite moment of feeling kind of a divine, good, divine kind of. It's very different, I think the whole entire process between making my first CP to yeah. I mean, it's just a different time in my life. I think that I, you know, struggled a lot in my first time around, my first project. Granted, there were a lot of incredible experiences that I was having, especially being new to the. The music scene in a more professional context. Like, I grew up very much like in the indie. In the indie scene. And getting signed was like, it was a big deal, you know. And I also told myself when I was like 19, I was like, I'm never going to do majorly, you know, I'm never selling out, you know, and now I'm just. I'm under different conditions and in terms.

14:15 So it's like I don't. I. I haven't sold out, you know, I don't need to do it. I know, but. You know what I mean? But I think the first time, like, there's a song on my, my album that just came out called Sleeping and Sleeping is the second song. Part. Part of it is about the grief aspect of like, it's. It's basically like how people treat you when you're going through grief and like, also how you feel about yourself when you're going through grief, how you deal with others. So it's like how others deal with you, how you deal with others. And then it's also about. In. In the music business, how people deal with you when you're like, I don't know, in a lower moment or like there's nothing going on with you really, however you'll put it, like, just not your best. How others deal with you, perceive you, see you, and how you deal with them versus when you're doing really well and you're. And you're successful or, you know. So I think that it's like for me, there was a lot of resentments that I had, like feeling like I did, you know, I kind of entered a machine with no awareness of what a true, true awareness besides, like, what you're told to, like, be careful, you know, and like, you know, all the, all the things that they tell you about it.

15:45 But you never know until you really don't know, until you experience it for yourself. No matter how smart you think you are, no matter how. Who you have around you. Like, there are just things that just, like, happen so quick that only now that I've gone through these experiences am I able to see those things that, you know, I feel like I'm a much more confident and safe position in my life, which is amazing. But, yeah, sleeping is definitely about, like, that feeling of, like, feeling, like, exploited, you know, or just not really, like, understanding.

16:27 Not really understanding or unable to let go of the resentment that comes with just dealing, like, being in a position that people. That other people haven't been through, but they're looking at you. And so there's like, a lot of resentment. And so I think I was dealing with that, like, kind of resentment piece for a while at my first. My first go around, my first deal. And then, you know, I was released a fishy into the ocean and, you know, I.

17:08 I found my coral reef, you know. Sure. Well, it's. It's interesting what you're saying because it's like, yeah, you had. Coming from. You put a couple. You put your song. You put the song about your sister up or the beginning of it up on Tick Tock and then it's like, goes viral, like, instantly. Right. I mean, it was like, within minutes, I think you said it had, like 100. Yeah. Views. And then you follow that up with this. With sometimes. And that's explodes too. And I would imagine, because, you know, you're probably trying to, like, follow that, and then you have, like, people reaching out. You're new to it. And it's like, now all these big, big wigs in the industry are like, hey, we want to, you know, be a part of what you got going on. And I would imagine that's a lot of pressure going into your first ep, thinking, like, okay, is this also gonna. Is every song gonna hit that way? I mean, I. I mean, I don't know what you were thinking going into that. Yeah, a thought. I think that, like, I mean, for me, like, I've never.

18:12 There's the natural human desire, egos, urges, and then there's the purity that's in your heart and they both exist. But I think that what I know that I look for and what my purpose is has always been clear to me, even when I've been struggling a lot, I guess, with purpose in the last two years of what that means when I don't really know what I believe in and having a worldview, because I feel like a lot of things start there or in my life. Growing up, I felt that they did. I had a strong Sense of purpose. Until my sister passed away.

19:00 Sure. And. But when it comes to like, just, I guess, a smaller version of the purpose when it comes to music, I know that it's. For me, I enjoy connecting with others. That helps me feel less isolated. They feel less isolated. That goes down to the one person. So I'm here for the one person, not for, you know, the hundreds, thousands, millions. It's. The individual is. Is the most important thing. I think, of course, you necessarily can't. You can't, like, provide for yourself and, like, be able to sustain your life with, like, one person. So there's like, that kind of balance, like, of me knowing that what I really care about and then, yes, the.

19:53 The like, I hope that this can, you know, be consistent and those things, like, battling each other. And I think that was a lot of my first. My first time, you know, we had first. First project, we'll call it. It just was kind of valuing those things because I think, like, granted, I think if I just. And there's no going back and I would not change a thing about it, but if I just kept putting out music, you know, like, I didn't put out music for a year and a half, of course, like, nothing like, oh, really? Oh, you got. You know what I mean? Because of the situation, probably with the record deal and all the other things. Yes. But it's like, dude, why would you tell me that? Girl, tell me, go on my voicemail and post another one. It's not that deep. Like, it's literally not that serious. Like, I was a new artist. All you need to do is put one foot in front of the other. Like, I could be. I can be an artist manager. I could be a lawyer. Like, I'm not playing. Like, it's not even. Like, it's kind of crazy what I think about it. I was like, yeah, T didn't put out music for a year and a half. Like, that's crazy. Anyway, I didn't. And I think that, you know, outside of even that, when you go from like, yes, I had. I had my band, Wendy Lane in high school. And like, that was like our. Our indie dream pop thing that we did. Oh, okay. I don't think we talked about that last time. That's cool. Oh, yeah. So we were in high school.

21:26 Aiden, he worked on. He co produced on this project. And then Coco, who's shot the sailor song video, we were all in a band together called Wendy Lane. And it was very indie dream pop. Like, very kind of beach house inspired. Mac DeMarco team Impala. This is like 2017. So like we were, we were really cool, but like, we felt really cool, but, you know, we, we were really coming into like the wonders of music and, you know, creating and that kind of stuff. And so we had that going for us. It's just, you know, they were a year older than me, so they went off to school. It became a little harder. And so we never really, we never really got to like put together the album we wanted to, but we, we had, we definitely had a pretty big following. Like I. And I don't even know how it happened because I don't know how the Internet and discovery worked in 2016 or 2017 because I just wasn't thinking about that then. Sure.

22:36 So I don't know how discovery worked back then, but we, I think we had like, maybe like almost like 200,000 monthly listeners, you know, and we just like made that like. And I remember we were so excited, I think, because it would get picked up on like, like Reddit and like indie forums, band camp, that kind of stuff. So like there were. It was really, really awesome. But that was like, you know, a very, a different experience from like going into the, you know, the world of like, okay, we're sitting down with the major label, we're putting out this, this thing. And also there was just so much, just, there was so much of a learning as far as like, what did, what did my taste, my true taste as an artist sound like outside of like a band context, outside of anything. So I think it's just your project, right? I mean, you're not in a band. Yeah, they're really opinions and it's just you and what you want to be and sound like. Yeah. So there was just a lot of learning really that needed to. To happen. And you know, I think that it's one of those things that just takes the course of time for you to see and learn from, you know. So there's some things that you could say like, yeah, that was definitely just the music business being the music business.

24:09 But then there's another piece of it that's like, that was just a 20 year old being a 20 year old trying to figure out who they are, you know, in the wake of going through like the biggest heartbreak of grief, you know. So there were a lot of happening, different factors. Yeah. It was like your uncle, your grandparents, like your sister. Then you got broken up with. It was like you just were getting, then covet. It was left. Yeah. Just getting rushed. It was like, geez, I know It's. It's crazy. It's definitely crazy to look back on and then, like, I think with, like, everything now and, you know, I ended up moving back home after I was released from my record label. I was like. I was in London at the time. Oh, wow. I got the call, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm done.

25:01 I'm done for it. Yeah. Did you feel like your. The career was over at that point, or did you. Or was that not a part of that? I think it was in the sense of, like, the. The I. Whatever I thought that I was gonna experience, like, I was like, yeah, that's just like. I'm like, all of you are crazy. I'm getting out of here. Like, you know, I'm just gonna learn how to record and produce. That was my goal. I was like, I don't have. I was like. And truly, I still feel this way. I would rather sing in a box. Like, I literally would rather be at the cafe and I told myself this than, like, ever feel the way that I did before in the sense of, like, ever feel that constrained and ever feel that, like, disposable, you know, lack of value, whatever you want to phrase it. I think. I mean, it's different now because I spent a year kind of reconnecting completely with my. My family, my friends, my. My life. Like, my life. Not the life that I was, like, trying to.

26:20 Not the life that I was trying to. Trying to have. I don't know how to explain it. I think when I was younger, I just kind of had a lot of expectations of what it is to be an artist. You know what I mean? Like, I. I remember, like, if we're speaking, like, even backward times, like, I was. It. It really was. I struggled a lot with, you know, imposter syndrome and also embarrassment one, I think, because, you know, I just got out of the period of time where my sister passed away. And, you know, when my sister passed away, like, our family, like, we knew a lot of people, and it was like a giant flashlight shine on us. And, like, everybody feels bad for you, and everybody talks about you, and they just feel like that poor family, you know?

27:21 And then you have, like, a moment of glitter, and it's like, everything looks really great. They're, like, all so excited. And then everything after that is just so underwhelming and anticlimactic. And, like, everybody's kind of like, oh, that's kind of, like, interesting. Like, you know, like, she doesn't, like, get engagement. It sounds stupid, but in, like, my 20 year old head, it was kind of like I felt this need to like, live out a dream. Not even for myself, but for my sister because she was an opera singer and she always wanted to do it. Like, she was very much like the, she's like very much the. Like.

28:14 Well, she was in like musical theater and everything. Right. That's what. Yeah, she like, had the personality of somebody that just like, would just love. It, you know, Want to be the star. Yeah. And I'd like, never really, like, felt that way. And like, I still don't like, I think that like, I, I'm always thinking about my relationship to myself and the environment that I'm in and how does that affect how I see others and, you know, see myself and very like, connected to this plane, you know, because I think that like a lot of our, the younger generation just got sold on like, a lot of things that just like, aren't real. Like. Well, yeah, you grew up in a world of Instagram and Tick Tock and everyone's life looks perfect all the time. It's like, yeah, you know, exactly. And it's. But it's like I've always just kind of been like.

29:18 Like when I was younger and I was a kid, like, yeah, there were artists that I looked up to that I definitely idolized. But I don't know, maybe it's just part of, you know, one, it's being the age that I am and, you know, maturing and then the second is like being in it where it's just feels like it's not good for society, you know, that's my take. I think it's also like, for like, you know, real people. Does that make sense? Like, yeah, I think, like, wanting. Wanting.

29:59 I don't know. I don't really know how to explain it that well, but. Yeah. Can you tell me, do you remember where, where I was? Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, again, I don't really ask a whole lot of questions. It's just kind of. We're talking. I think I said, like, how did you, like, once you got the news that you got lost, you know, that, that you had lost a deal with the label and you're in, in London and it's like, are you like, at that point, like, did you think you wanted to continue doing music? Like, did you know that this. Yeah, you still were gonna keep doing this and like, obviously it all worked out and you had another massive song, you know, after the fact. But like, at that point, were you kind of defeated or were you just like, I Just need to get out of here, get home and start over. I, I definitely was experiencing that, you know, defeat and heartbreak. There's a song in the Heights called, I think it's Breathe, but that's like, I listened to it right after I love in the Heights and it's exactly that song. I'm just feeling like, yeah, I had a lot of potential.

31:10 I just felt like I had a lot of potential and you know, it didn't, it didn't work out. And at the end of the day, like, I'm a, I'm a number, you know, And I think that really, really hurt to kind of really wake up and, and just realize like, you're, you're a number, you know, it was a business proposition and then didn't, you know, and it's like I, I, I gave some of my most vulnerable, like, stories and I don't know, it was, it was a lot, it was a lot to, to accept and I did. And when I started to it, you know, I came from moving back in with my parents and I taught myself how to record and produce. There was a lot of Reddit and YouTube and calling my friends. Like I called, you know, Jen sometimes who made the EP with me, and you know, she's incredible. She's like very like, you know, studio badass. I did everything in my bedroom, you know, and I talked to Aidan and I met Noah Weinman. There's a lot of different, like, key

32:40 people and my friend Eric, he was the first person actually that really helped me just wrap my mind around recording and producing. And so I, I had friends that I could call and I had a lot of nights alone just spent on YouTube and like looking at all the different, like, comparisons of, you know, different equipment and, you know, realizing I actually didn't need that, a lot of that equipment. I did everything on a sure microphone for the most part. And you could still make things sound really big. Like there's just so many things that I learned along the way that I didn't know. And I think that it was so nerve wracking because I really did not know what I was doing. Like, I truly like, yes, I know how to record my vocals and Ableton and click play and like pan, you know, but like, I didn't really understand how to make things sound good. And I was blown away at how quickly I started to. And it made sense because also I'm, I'm still in a way producing alongside other producers. I always have been, but, you know, I'm kind of like I wasn't doing it. I wasn't engineering things except for my vocals for the most part. But then getting involved on things like learning how to record guitars and the way that I. That I like to do them the whole entire. Like, this album

34:12 at the beach, in every life is a science project. It's an experiment. Wow. Did you did a lot of those songs that you were starting off or, like, at your house, make like those original recordings made the album? Yeah, yeah. Most of them are the original recordings. Like, all of them. Wow. All of them, except for the chemistry was the only one that Aiden and I made that in his studio in la, part of it. And then we finished it in my house. That was like half and half, but in normalcy. Also, I made with eight with Noah and his. It's like his studio bedroom kind of thing. Like, similar setup to mine, maybe a little bit more robust. Wow. But everything in my bedroom, you know. So you got home.

35:01 Yeah, you got home and then started learning, right? Learning how to engineer, learning how to record. And then when you started writing your songs, did you, like, realize it was becoming an album? Like, how long did this process kind of take you? I wanted it to be an album, but I was kind of like. It was kind of like a time where, like, my team was like, you know, albums are really big deal, sweetie, you know, and, like, you're not there yet. And it's like, if I don't put out a damn album, I'm gonna lose my mind. But no, I definitely was like, this is coming to. This is coming to be something. We're just throwing. We're just doing singles right now. And I was having a lot of fun. Like, I like that I was taking my piece. I needed to, because what the hell am I waiting around for? Like, yeah, I'm gonna put out. And every and every artist has their own way of doing things that makes their. Their storytelling and their delivery feel what is best and right to them. So I totally respect and understand however people choose to roll out their music. I was in a case where, like, I can't just put out an album and expect everybody to, like, be like, that was great. Like, imagine if I put out an entire album, no one would have ever heard any of this music, most likely, you know, so it's like the process of, okay, I'm just gonna put one foot in front of the other as I go. Please be rude. Was an example

36:32 of, like, the joy. Like, the childlike joy that you can have is. Is incredible, you know, And I had. I Had lost that kind of that passion and that lust for music because I was just so. Like, I was not into. Let me get in this session. Let me get in a session. And like, it just was uninspiring to me. Even though I, like, made a lot of great friends through it, Even if we made a great song together, like, nothing. Like, it just. It wasn't my. That wasn't gonna be my full potential. That wasn't gonna be my. My highest form of creating, you know? And I only learned that by like pressing buttons, random buttons, until I realized what they meant, you know?

37:19 And like, it was so exciting. Like, I. I just. I remember being in my room at 2am and recording something and then hearing it back and being like, is this sound good? Like, does this sound good? It's like nothing like it. There's a sense of just like. It's like. It's a feeling of power, but it's like a healthy power, you know, it's like a feeling of like, I don't know, like my finger. Like my fingers are on fire. Like I could just run around the room. I don't know. Well, yeah, it must have been Phil. Pretty good though, to coming even with normalcy or Please, please be rude. Like, you put these songs out and they. And they do. Well, it wasn't like that. You know, you came back and no one care. It was like you had left the label and all that things. And then you still put these songs out and then it's still, you know, they do. Really? Yeah. Good numbers. That must have been pretty validating. For sure. I think it was like, also, I feel like all suspending your expectation and disbelief is someone can tell you to do that. But it's just one of the things that, like, there is a surrender that happens on your own body's accord.

38:38 And I think I had reached that moment of being like, yeah, I don't care. Like, I just don't. I don't. I don't care because I'm here to create. And I know that this entire time I've had a community that's really enjoyed my music. And I was so focused on the suits or whoever that I was dealing with constantly that I did not have a direct relationship with my community.

39:20 And when all that noise is gone, you see the beautiful. The beautiful gems and rubies in front of you. So I spent a lot of time just connecting with my community. And that was also something that was very healing and fulfilling to me. And of course, everything that's, you know, where things have Grown now is incredible to see. Sure. But I feel just as loved, you know, I really feel like I. Something in my perspective in what audience means to me and the connection that we have that was healed in the moment of. Away from all this stuff.

40:10 So it's not like I feel. I'm. I'm not. There's nothing overpowering the real reason why we're here. And that's. That's really beautiful to me. And it was super important because I don't think I was mature enough. I wasn't ready for this chapter of my life. There was. I wasn't ready for it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I was gonna say. Because then you. Sailor Song is just. It's the biggest record you've put out. And that was after, like, you had already. It seems like you've already done the healing process and you reach. You got back with your community and you started to learn how to record your own songs. And then this next even bigger moment happens for you.

40:52 Yeah, it was. It's so crazy. I think it's like it's almost a year. I guess I don't have really a concept of time. We're entering summer, May, June, July. Okay, so it was July, like third. Something like that. I like, shared Sailor Song before. I had, like, done that little acoustic thing online too. I definitely did not have any. Anything of the sort, except for I love Sailor Song. I wrote it and when I recorded it, you know, send it to my friends, as I did with most of the songs at the time. Every time I was making things all the time, and I was like, just high. I was just high off of making music that I loved. And this was no different, you know, dancing and sending it to my friends and, you know, talking. I remember talking to my good friend Taimi about it, and we were just going back and forth about the song and they were like, just so in love with it, you know, and it's so amazing to be aware of something so special and, like, what it means to you and then for that to happen because it makes sense to me because it was so loved. But, like, I don't know. I would have. It would have just been. It would have been as fulfilling, you know, I think just like

42:24 my concept, I guess I'll fulfillment, like. And I think another piece of. It's like, I'm aware that it could go away, like, you know, as incredible and kind of the path that I believe I'm on is wonderful. And it's something that's. There's an opportunity to really Connect with others and impact others and you know, especially with things on, on, you know, heavier topics like grief. That means so much to me. But I also know that anything can happen and you know, life is unpredictable, it's short, you know, you don't, there's so many twists and turns of the business and I know ultimately that my, the thing that means the most to me is just knowing that I'm also loved by the people around me and my, my family and my friends and my dogs. And that's kind of like the last standing thing, I think. So it's, it's a different, it's a different world to be in now with this, you know. And it's also interesting too because like now I'm on tour a lot and so your world kind of becomes smaller in some sort of sense with the people that you are around. I'm grateful because my family travels with me, so that's amazing.

43:41 Yeah. So you know, they're very involved in my life but you know, it's like, it's important for me to one just like take care of my well being and my health and my sleep and all those different things. But also make sure that I'm staying in touch with the people that matter to me. Which it's, it's a lot to balance for sure. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, the album is amazing. I, I, I, it's crazy that you did it all kind of yourself. I mean that I would have never guessed that going into the conversation. That's so cool that you did that. I think Survivor's Guild is such a deep song. Like that was a very vulnerable one for you to put out. But yeah, yeah, I'm sure that was a rough one to write.

44:35 Yeah, I mean it came to me pretty, it was like right there, Aiden had come up with these chords, I had heard them. I was like, Aiden, what are those chords? It's like Gigi, like Aiden and he gave it to me. So. Thank you, Aiden. Well, I already wrote to it. I was like, I was like, by the way, I wrote to your chords because they're like very interesting chords. They're not, it's not just like a kind of, you know, a basic center for chords. Chord progression. It's a really cool chord progression. And he heard it, he was like, yeah, we gotta record this, you know, and it just, it flow, it just flowed. That one just flowed. I think it was like over time I've kind of seen and especially the year where I was away from the music world that's where I really started to see a lot of my, like, the deconstruction of Christianity and my upbringing and where that intersects with my grief. I don't know. It's like a big explosion. Yeah. And so I think.

45:49 I mean, a lot of the album is about that. And, like, there is that love factor, that very pure. That pure kind of love piece of it all where, like, I'm going through dealing with the grief and the deconstructed. Deconstructing. But then there's this pillar. It's just something I can hold on to throughout all of it. But, yeah, definitely. It was definitely a heavy one. Do you feel like it's therapeutic when you get these songs out like that? Oh, my gosh, yes. I remember when I wrote Fable, I was like, thank freaking God. I needed to get this one up because it's more so, like, I think with grief. Like, it's taken me years and years to understand or to see the way.

46:44 See who I would become. Because when my sister passed away, I remember this pastor was at my house, and he told me this thing, and I was so angry. I was like, I wanted this man out of my house. Like, get the hell out of my house. But he said, how you handle your grief right now will affect you for the rest of your life. It's going to affect you. Your relationships is going to affect, you know, your work. It's going to affect your future children. It's going to affect your spouse, everything. It's going to affect everything in your life.

47:26 So how you deal with it is so important. And I'm like, I literally. My sister died today. You know what I mean? And I'm like, you're that heavy thing. I was like, yes, this is great. This is exactly it. Like, I have more responsibility. Yes. And I feel like as much as it was, maybe he didn't even need to tell me that, like, in the grand scheme, because I would have figured it out, therapy and stuff, but I never forgot it. And I think that. I think about that as I've gone from the early 20s to now 25 to I'm sure when I'm 30, how my grief changes and how it affects how I approach life.

48:15 And it's very. It's very weird because it follows you and it changes and evolves. And, like, sometimes, like, I think, like, maybe I'm like, I won't. There's, like, that longing and that loss that exists, and then there's, like, the harrowing, dark side of it, and then there's, like, okay. I'm dealing with new concerns based upon my age. I'm dealing with new fears based upon my age. I. You know, it just does things to you. Like. Just like, anything. Like, I think, like, if it's, like, a physical trauma or you're like, you know, something crazy happens. And, like, those people who get, like, diseases year. Years later after, like, it's the progression of how a certain trauma changes you.

49:11 And, you know, I'm in therapy for that, but I think there's only so much you can do. And I think something like the writing process of it, like, I've seen the way the things that I write about have changed the way that I. There were things that I would have just never imagined or could have fathomed, and I. It had to be five years later to articulate it. Like, imagine, like, it's, like, pulling through. Like, if there was just, like, this big building that collapsed or something. You have to find every single piece of it, you know, or whatever they do. I don't know what they do, but it's like, I had to find it all. And there are things I still haven't found yet. And so there's a frustration of, like, the anticipatory grief that you haven't experienced yet. Like a wedding day, for example. Like, anybody who's lost their. Lost their parent, you know, no matter how old they are, they. They know that that day is going to come someday and that living in that purgatory is just a different kind of heartbreak. It's still a heartbreak versus them actually getting married on that day, and their parent is walking them down the aisle, you know, So I think it's, like, very.

50:36 Songwriting is the greatest gift that I've been given, one of the greatest gifts, I think, you know, people. And, like, my. The people in my life come first. But that is the. The personal gift of being able to understand things. Like, sometimes I understand things because I wrote about it, and I look back at what I wrote. I'm like, oh. And being able to also package it in a way that's satisfying to me because I just. That's how I am. And I love music, and I love hearing things in a way that's connected to the. The melody and the lyric and the rhyme. And, like, there's so many things that, like, make something that is so, like, such an annoyance to me and such a point of negativity and turning that into something beautiful and being like, yes. And then somebody else from the other side will be like, oh, my God.

51:38 Like, that was so satisfying to me as well. So it's a really big blessing to be able to have songwriting that helps me figure out what I'm feeling. It's the. It's the biggest relief. It's like a massage. I love it. Well, I think the album. Excuse me. I think the album is incredible. And I appreciate your time, Gigi, for coming back and doing this. You're. You're so fun to talk to. So thank you for your time today. I have one more question. I asked you this last time, but I'm gonna ask it again if you have any advice for aspiring artists. I remember when you asked me that. I wonder what it said.

52:20 I think it's just follow the thing that moves you and wherever you feel pulled to go there and find that. That reason that. That it means so much to you and, you know, do it for the love of it, you know? And if you feel like that's not kind of where you're at, I think it's important to evaluate maybe why, if it's a. If it's the circumstances, then. And there's nothing you can do about it than have grace for yourself. I think that having grace for yourself and knowing that things will fall as they're meant to is important. But most importantly, not every day is going to be a good day, and not every day is going to be a great creative day. But, you know, you're still an artist, and you still love it. Make as long as that. That the light can dim sometimes, but don't ever let it go out.

53:37 That's the goal. Backward, bring it backwards, bring it back, bring it back.