BiB: DIY Pop-Punk to LA Dreams: How Jonathon Fraser Kept Going When Others Gave Up

0:10 Bring it backwards Bring it backwards Bringing it backwards Bringing it backwards Bringing it backwards Bringing it backwards. Why, hello, it is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast where both listen legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode we had the opportunity to hang out with Jon, AKA Northbound or Northbound is Jon's solo project. We were able to chat with him over Zoom video. Jon, born and raised in South Florida, talks about how he got into music.

0:52 He told us about a babysitter he once had that was a huge fan of Newfound Glory, Newfound Glory group of the same area and they were a local band at the time, so he was really raised on that pop punk emo sound. Jon talks about the first band he was in in high school, how he then ended up going solo or just starting this, the solo project Northbound. He talked about getting signed to Animal Style Records and then later on Smart Punk Records, which he's currently signed to for his most recent album and the new album. He also talks to us about touring with Simple Plan and State Champs and all about his big move, his recent move to Los Angeles.

1:36 You can watch the interview with Northbound on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It would be amazing if you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Tick Tock at Bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google podcasts, it would be amazing if you follow us there as well and hook us up with a five star review. We'd appreciate your support if you follow and subscribe to our podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It Backwards with Northbound. What's going on? I'm Adam and this is about you and your journey in music and we can talk about the new album. Sweet. Hey, I'm Jon. Nice to meet you, Jon.

2:20 Born in. I'm sorry, sorry, one sec. I'm just going to. Let me just. I'll do this. I don't know if Zoom is on the thing. No, no, no, no, it's not. Okay, good. I'll. We'll build our. A lower third for you. That's, you know, not just. Okay, cool, cool. Yeah. So first off, born and raised in Florida. Is that what I read? Yes, yes. Born in South Florida, like the Fort Lauderdale area and lived there for the first 29 years of my life. Wow. Are you there now? I recently moved to Los Angeles within the last year. Oh, okay. What took you to la?

3:05 Music. Music friends needed to change all that sort of stuff. Interesting. You're one of the few people that went the opposite way. Yeah, I. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, why. Why did I go to la? But I like it a lot, honestly. It's. It's. It's a tougher city than people make it out to be, I think. Honestly. But. Oh, yeah, but I, like, I'm from San Diego. I moved to Nashville like, three years ago. But, yeah, dude, it's. Yeah, it's funny because everyone was moving east, right? Yeah. Florida, Tennessee, Texas. And you're one of the guys that went the auth. You went towards the. Everyone exiting. Yeah, that sounds like me. You said that it's a tougher city than people make it out to be. I think so.

3:59 Just because it's, like, hard to find your footing. And I'm still working on finding my footing and finding where I fit and all that. And just the amount of wealth out here is, like, some days it's, like, really inspiring, and some days it's really discouraging and the money and the power and, like, all of that, like, there's a romanticism to it for me. But depending on the day, I might be, you know, having a hard time because of that also. Right. I mean, you go out depending on where you are in la, the scale of wealth is definitely massive there. Right. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. Especially, like, where I live in the Valley, like in Sherman Oaks. Like, oh, damn, you're on Sherman Oaks. Okay. Yeah, I'm living well above my means and struggling, but, like, on one side of the. Of Ventura Boulevard, it's like the most wealth you've ever seen. And then you go a couple blocks past Ventura Boulevard, it's like, yeah, total. This is kind of scary. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah. I live on. I live. I live on the scary side. That's good.

5:08 Right on, dude. So originally from Florida, though. So you're in Florida, you said 29 years. What was it like growing up in the Fort Lauderdale area? There's some rad bands from out of there. Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff. Especially, like, when I was coming up and, like, starting bands and stuff like that. There was a lot of cool music happening out there. And I don't know, I think overall it was cool. I really liked it. I was like, when I was young, like, Newfound Glory was like, a local band. Yeah. Area. So I think that I credit to, like, the. The thing that, like, really kickstarted everything for me with that.

5:50 And, yeah, there's some cool artists like Dashboard Confessional also from Boca Raton, South Florida. Yeah, a lot of cool. He's a Nashville guy now. Yeah, that's what I hear and say. And I think Jordan from Newfound Glory is a San Diego guy. He's been living in San Diego forever. It's weird. Yeah, I think so. I don't know anyone in that band personally. Okay. But yeah, still, I mean, you grew up in the area and you'd see those people come up. Like, I mean, was. Were you seeing Newfound Gloria as a local band back then or. I don't, I don't think. I think I was too young to see them because I was like, they started in 97 and yeah, so I was just like, just old enough. I remember my babysitter like showed me them and was like, oh, this is my friend's brother's band. Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, stuff like that. But no, I never saw them as like a child or anything, but just knowing that they were around and then watching them explode, I was like, oh, this is exactly what I want to do. You know what I mean? Yeah.

6:57 No, 100%. And did you get into music? I mean, your babysitter shows you newfound glory, but like, were you raised in a musical household at all or were you in like band or how did you get into music originally? Aside from, you know, picking up bands you liked or hearing songs you like? Yeah, no, not, not from a musical family at all. My father, father is like an immigrant from South Africa. My mother is just like this very Italian, New Jersey Jew. And they're both just like never played an instrument ever. My dad was like, I didn't play an instrument. I had to go work. Like, what are you talking about? You know what I mean? They like music, I guess. But like, no, I, I didn't grow up in one of these homes where like my parents were showing me cool music and people were playing instruments around me. It just wasn't. I don't know what made me want to do it. It just kind of, I think it was kind of innate for me. My mom says that like when I was, you know, 2 years old and stuff, that there was, you know, at like birthday parties and stuff, those little blow up guitars and like little things like that. Like, I was always just like picking those up and picking up little drums and like doing things like that. So my, at least my parents, who are very biased, are convinced that it's like in my DNA, you know?

8:20 Yeah. So at what age did you start, like, was Guitar. The first instrument you started playing? Yeah, I started with guitar. I think I was, like, maybe 9 or 10 years old, and my mom got me this guitar from Toys R Us. It's, like, really cheap, like, little thing, and. Yeah, I just started kind of teaching myself and buying, like, those little tab books. I remember I bought, like, a Blink 182 tab, like, book and. Yeah. Yeah. Learning how to play punk rock music and stuff like that. That's awesome. And then do you start a band or anything like that once you get a little older? Like, in high school or in, like. Eighth grade high school, Like, I definitely have, like, bands, but I was, like, such a shy kid. I was, like, really afraid to play in front of people, and I was really afraid. Afraid to, like, sing or like.

9:11 I remember I got in a huge fight with my, like, high school band because they wanted to go record, and I was like, I don't want to record. That's too scary. Oh, wow. But, yeah, so it was, like, always something we did for fun and stuff like that. But it was really my senior year of high school. I started a band with some buddies, and that was, like, the first. Excuse me. My first experience, like, playing shows and stuff like that. We went on to, like, tour pretty consistently and all that and. Oh, wow. So you guys. Yeah. You were doing it then. We were doing it really young. Like, really young. Our Drummer was, like, 13 at the time. Oh, my. I was the oldest one at 17. How are you touring? Were your parents driving you guys around? So at first.

9:59 At first, we literally had to bring, like, our older friend Andre, who was, like our chaperone. He was, like, five or six years older than us, and he would. He would drive us around. Like that. Yeah. And, like, I was really lucky in the sense of my dad as a used car salesman and he had the. Deals on the vans or what. He hooked us up and just, like, would let us borrow, like, a Chevy Tahoe or a van or something like that, like, from his lot. Like, just do some highly illegal shit and, you know, make it look like I bought it on paper, like, you know. That's awesome. Yeah. Like, so we could get it insured for the. You know, for the month that we needed it. Yeah.

10:40 Literally. Yeah. Oh, man, that's hilarious. We started young. Started young. And then how do you then. Because Northbound is just you, right? It's just a solo project. Yeah. So it. I mean, I play with people and I collaborate with the same people a lot, like, in the studio. But I. I started. I started Northbound because My old band, it was called Sleep Patterns. It was like a hardcore type band. Everyone started graduating high school eventually and I wanted to keep touring and they wanted to go to college. And our drummer, Connor was always like, he was so young. He was the youngest one and he was. He's the guy. This kid is 13. Yeah, he started.

11:30 Yeah, yeah. He still has like so many years left of school. Yeah, yeah. But he actually like dropped out of high school because he. We toured with that band. I don't know if you remember this band being as an ocean. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've actually had them on one guy. He also has another project. I'm spacing on the name right now, but anyway. Yeah, maybe capsize one of those guys. I don't know. This was like 10 years ago. Look it up. But go ahead. But we, we toured with that band and then they kind of. They did a little bit of a poach on our drummer, Connor. They took him and he started touring full time with them and he actually stopped going to high school and then the other guys went to college and I was just like, I'm going to just start my own thing so I could keep touring. Oh, really? Wow.

12:22 Yeah. Okay. So he, he actually got in the band and he played with them for a while. Yeah, he played with them for a while. He plays for Beartooth now. He's like, he's like a very, very sought after drummer in this world. That's amazing. That's. I mean. Yeah, that's amazing that he, you know, you were able to play with him and he kind of gained that, that thing. But so he leaves and then you're just like, okay, well, I should, you know, I just, I want to continue doing this and playing. So I'm going to tour on my own. Yeah, he leaves. Well, he doesn't like leave the band. He's just like much, much busier. And the other two guys wanted to go to college and they went to college and moved out of town and I was just like, all right, I got to do this on my own now. So was that difficult to like start just as, you know. Okay, were you writing the songs for the bands or you already had like experience with that or like the, the other. The band that we were in was like a totally different genre and it was like much more of. So Connor, the drummer and his brother Ryan, they were in the band and they wrote a lot of stuff together and then they would take it to us and whatever. I don't know why I'm talking about this. So Much because it's like ancient history. But, yeah, I did. I had some experience like. Like making shit with people or whatnot. And I kind of wrote songs for myself. But, yeah, when I started Northbound, I was like, oh, I'm going to.

13:49 I'm just going to do this. And it was weird at first, but I think I liked the fact that, like, no matter what happened, like, I would be able to do it no matter what. Yeah, right. There's. You're the only one. You're right. There's no one that has to, like, you don't need to ask people if they need. If they have time to practice or do this. It's like. It's just. You have all the time that you're just go, yeah. That you can put into it. For sure. Yeah. So, I mean, this is going to be your fourth album, right? Yeah. Wow. Man, that's a lot of music and a lot of songs, like. So when you first go into it, like, to continue to do this for such a long time. Did you have validation early on with this project or kind of tell me the arc of the. Of the. Of the, you know, of your project or band. I guess. Yeah. I think, you know, our band, like the first band, Sleep Patterns, we. We made some connections and some friends touring and all that. So I think I was lucky.

14:56 And it was, you know, it was pre TikTok. It was pre. The massive social media boom. So I don't know, I think I just, like, had a lot of word of mouth and, like, there were some people paying attention to what I was up to. So, like, I started Northbound and I mean, compared to, like, what is considered successful these days is it wasn't that successful, but I think I had a bit of a jump start, you know what I mean? Because I had some momentum going with touring and I had like, all these, like, heavier bands that I became friends with through touring with the hardcore bands. And like, my first ever Northbound tour was with a hardcore band like me, Social stick with a hardcore band. Just because, like, that's the connect that I had and we were all buddies and, like, they let me jump on, you know. So it's like it started in this, like, DIY kind of punk and hardcore thing and people were. People were cool, I guess.

16:00 I don't know, it was just like, very diy, but I kind of just hit the ground running. And right after high school, I was just. I was on tour constantly and I was like, doing some weird too. Like, a tour would end and then I would just like, Go busk a little bit and like, just meet people and kind of float around. And, you know, a lot of people were like, why are you just driving around the country? Like, what are you doing? I was like, I don't fucking know. But I'm like, I'm gonna figure it out, you know, and then it's easier. I'm sure it's easier to get shows if it's just you. Right? Like, and you don't have to go with a bunch of people and coordinate schedules or tell a bunch of equipment. I mean, you said you just get up there with an acoustic guitar. Yeah. Like, literally, like, I.

16:41 I remember I finished a tour in Savannah, Georgia, the first northbound tour. I finished the tour and then I, like, looked up venues in Savannah, Georgia, and I saw that there was a show happening. And I showed up to the show and I was like, can I play for 15 minutes before the show? You know, I don't want any money. Just. Just let me play. You know what I mean? It was like a lot of stuff that. Of just like stuff that feels kind of like you can't really do that anymore or like it might be laughed off now, but it was the right time and people were. I think people were more open and I don't know. So. Yeah, that's interesting because I was just trying to think about, you know, when I was growing up, you know, all those band, like, newfound glory and all those bands were just smaller and they were coming through and playing little clubs in San Diego. And there was a. There was a scene there of kids like that all they knew. There's a handful of bars and venues that you could play and, you know, friends book the shows and. And I don't know if that scene is really there anymore, but maybe it is. I'm just old, but, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like in. In that time period, at least when I was in San Diego, like, if you did that, if you were driving, you're like, hey, man, I'm from. I'm.

17:55 I'm from Florida. Like, I've been playing up the coast. Like, can I just play a few songs? 90% of the people would just be like, yeah, man, you can open. Just get up there and start playing. But, you know, whatever. Like, it wasn't even, like a thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, two drink tickets, go ahead if you want. Exactly, like. And I. I don't even think I was. I don't even know if I could legally drink at the time, you know. But you know what? I Mean, like, it wasn't. It's not. It wasn't like, oh, man, you know, the promoter. It just was always like some local guy that book the venue. Yeah. Wednesday nights or whatever that day. And you just go, hey, man, like, can we play? Or it's changed. At least the places that I used to go to, not many of them exist anymore in San Diego. But at the time that was stuff people did. They just rolled up and like, hey, yeah, yeah. It feels like it's really different now.

18:51 Maybe for better or for worse, you know, but it's just. I don't know which one, but it is just different. Sure. But so you're doing that and then you put out, what, your first album, how long after you've been touring around or did you have that before you started doing it so you had something to sell or. I. I started touring with one single that I like, recorded in my room and I burned a bunch of CDs of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I think like within the next six months or something, I recorded like an lp. Wow. And it was all acoustic and it was fun. And my. My buddy Logan from Florida had like this little DIY label and he helped me, like, it was like so DIY. Like, he helped me like burn a bunch of CDs and like, you know, screen printing the covers on the thing and like using stamps and like, just like very diy, you know, I think I just kept. I generated some buzz in Florida and then.

19:56 Yeah, I don't know, I think I just kept playing in Florida. And then eventually this label called Animal Style Records who's like, was based in la, like, approached me online or maybe we approached them. I had like a. A friendager situation. Like a, like a friend who was more connected than I was kind of quote unquote managing me. And I got this deal with Animal Style and then I went in and recorded like, things. Full band for the first time. Oh, wow. Animal Style Records. I've never heard of them, but I know that's a. That's a way to get your burger in and out, so it makes sense. They're from California. Yeah, they. And it was, it was cool.

20:37 It was affirming because they had like Animal Style did like the first transit stuff. The first, like some early man overboard, some early story so far. Dagger mouth, like, like stuff like that. Like, bad. Yeah, I'm looking at their label. That. That's awesome. Yeah, I just never had heard of them before. That's cool. Yeah, I mean, it's like an indie label. Yeah, it's no longer, but I. I just had never heard of it. But when you said Animal Style, the first thing I thought it was in and out. And then it was like, yeah, they're out of la. I'm like, okay, that makes sense. But yeah, so you get signed to them and then what? They. They are able to fund an album and put, you know, at least pay for the recording process of it and everything?

21:19 Yeah, yeah, they put some cash behind me. And that must have been a pretty validated moment, right, to be like, wow, like this. Yeah, we're gonna put money into what I'm doing. Yeah, it was really amazing and I really, like, fostered a really special relationship with the founder of the label. And like, I was literally texting him 0.2 seconds before I logged onto the Zoom, like, oh, really? No, really good friends. And it's cool we get to see each other now because we both live in la. But you're on it. You're on Smart Punk right now. I'm on Smart Punk now, yeah. Sorry. So, yeah. So how many albums you put out with. With Animals Out Records or all of them now?

22:01 I did a. I did a full length and I did an episode and then that. I think that was my whole deal with. With Animal Style. It was. It was the full length and the ep and then he. I'm sure we would have kept going, but I think he was kind of overdoing the label. And then I. I was independent for a little bit, but I don't think I put anything out independent. And then I think I maybe did one single or so. And then, yeah, Smart Punk approached me and I've been with them for this record and the one before it as well. Oh, is that. I mean, did that change getting signed to them? I mean, Smart Punks a well respected label, obviously, and like getting sent to them, did that. Was that different than the Animal Style records? Maybe they have a little bit bigger wallet, I don't know. Or like, are they putting you on tours with bigger bands or. Yeah, I think. I think the ethos and the energy is the same because it's just like, you know, with Animal Style and with smartpunk, it was just like dudes who care about music and are signing shit that they like and not necessarily shit that they think is gonna like, you. Know, be the next TikTok banger or something.

23:17 Exactly. But yeah, I mean, I'd say just like, as the project has grown, you know, it's maybe a bit less of a risk to invest a little Bit more money and maybe the. You know what I mean, like stuff like that. So yeah, I mean, I think with smartpunk the budgets got bigger, but also like the band got bigger and like we were doing some cool tours and yeah, I have no complaints about either label I've been on. Oh yeah? Yeah. I'm not looking for you to smash them. I was just curious like. Yeah, like when you. Because a lot of bands, they are looking to be like, oh, I, like, are you? You know, if I get signed, like that's the pinnacle, right?

23:59 Like that's what you're striving to do. Or maybe a little different now. When I was growing up, that was it. But. But you know, you do that, you succeed and then it's like are you able to as assigned artists? Like are they helping you book, you know, bigger tours and things like that? Yeah, I mean, I think it definitely helped with some stuff. Like, I don't know, I mean it's all kind of separate. Like any of the cooler tours that I have done. Like we did a tour with Simple Plan and with State Champs like that. That just comes from like having relationships with, with people. Like I did that tour without an agent, without a manager. But I've done other stuff like when I did have a manager and when I did have an agent, you know, and I.

24:49 Yeah, I don't think we would have been able to do the, the Simple Plan thing without Smart Punk because they definitely helped because we were kind of eating shit on that tour, you know what I mean? Like, we weren't. We were on this bus routed tour in a van, like 12 hour drive every night. Like just like really brutal. Like with respect and love to Simple Plan not getting paid well, you know, and smartpunk really helped us out financially on that tour for sure. Awesome. Well, that's what's crazy is that. Well, the fact I heard this from another artist recently that like, I mean, the fact that you're getting paid is huge. I mean in any sense.

25:32 Just because based off of what somebody told me that they were actually paying bigger artists to get on their tour. That's the thing. I never heard of that. This is like a recent thing that I've heard. I was like, wait, what? Like, yeah, like I paid so and so to open up for him on this many dates. And then, you know, then I got asked to do another tour that I didn't have to pay for. But it's like for Simple Plan. I mean they're gonna sell out majority of shows, right? They're Huge. I've had Pierre on here before, and State Champs are great guys. Had them on, and they're both big bands, and if you're trying to break through to that next level, and, I mean, being on Smart Punk, they're like, yeah, we'll kick you some money. I mean, that's pretty, pretty dope. But I had never heard of the Pay the Band thing recently. I was like, wait, what? Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing, and it's pretty unfortunate. And it's just like, they have all the leverage, you know, like a big band has the leverage.

26:26 Like, you're saying, like, whether or not a band like mine is on that tour, like, I mean, I might. There's probably no people who are going to come see Northbound and not also be interested in seeing State Champs in Simple Plan. So it's like, I'm not. Even if people are like, like, oh, they're coming. Yeah, they're coming for you. Right? But it's like. But I also really like Simple Planet Stage Champs. This is dope because I get to see three bands I like. Exactly. So it's like the overlap is like, you know, whether I'm on the tour or not, that tour is still selling the same way, you know, so, like, they have all this leverage. And, yeah, like, I, I, I do remember, I don't want to put anything on glass, but I've been in situations where it's like, oh, well, this band will do it for free. So, like, you know, we don't, you know, we can't pay you this much because it's, you know, whatever. Like, we're not gonna pay you because we can just get this other band that won't. We don't have to pay anything. Right?

27:26 Exactly. And then you got to negotiate. You know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, business. It's a business. And I understand, but it's. Yeah, you know, we didn't, you know, thankfully, we didn't. We didn't lose any money on the Simple Plan thing just because it was so long and. Yeah, that's just dope. I mean, to play all those shows. I mean, what an experience. I'm sure. Yeah, it was. It was amazing. And it was like, dude, we were putting out our, like, Smart Punk debut on that tour. Like, and then, like, immediately Covid happened, and it was like the. Oh, my God. It was like a huge momentum kill because it really kind of felt like things were. Because I've been doing this for a while, and it's like, I've had kind of ebbs and flows in my career and. But that was like. I was like, this is a pinnacle ass moment. Like, hell yeah. Biggest tour I've ever done. One of the longest tours I've ever done. I'm putting out an LP on the tour, like the stars are aligned. And then Covid happens and I'm just.

28:26 Like, were you in the middle of the tour when that happened? Did you guys get shut down? No, we didn't get shut down, but the tour ended in December 29th. Okay. March. March 2020. So it was like, you know, the whole follow up year of touring that we had planned and majority of booked just disappeared and the momentum was kind of lost. Yeah, you know, for sure. Because I think that was when they. When they put out like Simple Plan, put out that record with State Champs. I think that they had like a song out with. Yeah, that was. That the Kings. I think it was that tour. Right? Huh? Yeah, I do remember that.

29:07 Yeah, it was really funny because they had like, they were like shooting a music video for it and on the tour at some of the shows and I don't know if we're in there a little bit in that music video for that song. You could see some of us at times, and stuff. But it was just so funny because it was like, we're just not included in this song. It's hilarious. That's awesome. I have to rewatch. We shouldn't be, but I want to see now. That's cool. Right on. So. So that happens, then Covid happens and then. And that's obviously the momentum slows down and are you like, okay, now what do I do? Yeah, when do you start working on this new album? And like, after everything opens up. Did you. Were you. Was it. Was it hard to kind of get that, you know, that. That momentum back? Yeah, it's been hard. And it's something I think I'm like, still actively like working on. Cause it's like done a couple tours and festivals and stuff like that since then. But I haven't been consistently on the road since pre Covid and so, yeah, it's been hard. And during COVID is when I started working on the record and I wasn't necessarily trying to make a record and I was kind of discouraged and I was kind of just like, ah, this. This might be the last one. Like it's. It's my last. My last one on the contract and maybe I'll just. Maybe I'll just cleanse. Maybe I'll just fuck off for a little bit after that. Oh, wow. But

30:39 then, you know, I somehow made a record that I'm really happy with and then immediately moved to Los Angeles and like. Yeah. So you recorded that when you're still in Florida? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. What a 180. You're like, actually, I'm gonna go fully into this and move to la. This is my, my kind of like throwing everything at the wall and just being like, yeah, all right. Like, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've heard, I've heard a handful of. I mean, I like the songs because the full album isn't out yet, right? No, it's not. In July. That's what I thought. Okay. So I've heard a handful of the songs on the record. And I, Dude, I love, I love what you're doing because I love that style of music and just, it, it's cool, it's, it's fresh. And I'm stoked that you're gonna keep going. I think moving to LA was a good, good move, if that's what you, you know, just to go all in. It's like, why not? I'm here, we'll see what happens. Yeah, thank you, by the way. And I, I, I don't know. I'm just like.

31:46 I didn't necessarily move here with the intention of, like, okay, let's go to LA and try to be, like, a famous rocker. I'm gonna make it. No, it was more so, like, you know, it's time for something new. A lot of my friends moved here and like, one of my best friends who produced this record and the last one, he, like, made the jump to move to Los Angeles right after we did the album. And he kind of, he kind of imported me with him. He was like, just, just come out here. Like, we'll make music all the time. Like, we'll, we'll get, like, writing sessions going for you. Like, he, his name is Sam Guayana. He's been a bit of the closest thing I have to, like, a mentor or manager, you know what I mean? He's just like, he believes in the shit. And when we make the records, it's like it's him and I in a room and we're making songs together. So, yeah, he kind of imported me, as he says. Well, you said you didn't even know if you were going to write or not. Like, you were like, okay, I think I'm done. You're about to give up or stop for a while at least, right? And do you write a song or was one of the Songs on the album or something that sparked that. You're like, oh, wow, like, I love this. And then they just kept getting, you know, you kept putting them out or, like, how did it, how did you flip like that? Like, flip the, you know, switching your head to. I don't know.

33:10 I think it's, like, less of a choice than it appears to be because it's like, I, I, I don't know that I'm really good at other stuff. And I listened to the record when we firstly, like, we also. I had, like, the easiest time I've ever had making an album. Making this one. Like, it just came right out of me. And then I was listening to it, and I was like, I think this is really good. I'm really happy with it. And, like, you know, who would I be if I stopped? You know what I mean? I didn't know that I was gonna, like, quit music. I think I'll always, like, write music or whatever, but I think it was more of, like. I just think, like, the dream is not necessarily dead, but maybe the dream is changing, and maybe I've already accomplished a lot of things I never thought I'd be able to do. You know, when I was younger, I used to think, like, oh, if I get signed to a label, I'll have made it. Or, like, oh, if I tore overseas, I'll have made it. Or, oh, if I get to make a record in a real studio, I'll have made it. And it's like, those are all things that I'm fortunate enough to have done. And maybe that's just.

34:17 Maybe the young version of me can just be happy with what I've done already and then just like, stop putting so much pressure on it to, like, you know, break in some huge way. I don't know. No, I 100% agree with you. But then as like, a creative, I'm sure the bull. All that happens is the goalposts just keep getting pushed further back. Right. The Tarzan Method. Yeah. Next one. I heard Anthony. I had Anthony on from Bayside, and he told me the thing was, you know, when you. The bigger the band gets in, the more he just said, you never arrive. I was like, that's you. And I asked him about getting signed to a label, and he's like, basically, like, you know, you went from, you're the kid at the little kid's table at Thanksgiving dinner, now you're at the big table, and it's like, what are you gonna do?

35:09 Show it? And I felt that interesting. And then he just Kind of said, you never arrive, which is. I feel like that myself. I was on terrestrial radio for 15 years and I was doing this. And it's like, you always want to get bigger and better and more and you achieve the one thing that you thought you'd never have and you're like, okay, well that's great, but look at now, I need to get to this point. Yeah. And it always looks different once you get there too. Like, right, right. Like, I don't know, it's. The goalpost does keep moving. And yeah, I like that you don't ever arrive because it's like, unless you're like literally post Malone or something. Like, but he's probably like, I haven't arrived. Like, I've done all this stuff, but, like, there's got to be something now and is. It's like, how much bigger can you. I mean, I. Maybe Taylor Swift never has arrived. I mean, I don't know, like, if you're selling out, like five nights at a stadium. I don't know, but maybe that. She's like, no, but I need to play to. I don't know, like, it just keeps going. It's like endless. Yeah, it's futile in that way, like, having those types of goals. And I think, like, for me, especially coming out here, like, my number one goal is to just live a comfortable life, like financially through music.

36:31 Like, I. I've realized now, like, I don't need a big house, I don't need a fancy car. I don't need, like, I don't need any of that to be happy. But if I can just like sustain a happy and comfortable lifestyle through music, that's like my next goal. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to work other jobs. Like, I don't want to do other shit. And luckily in la, I. I do get to like do some co writing stuff and some production stuff with people and like, that's cool to make money that way through music, but I want to supplement my entire life through creating shit. And that's like the goal. You know what I mean? Oh, 100%. So, like, the goal, like, just changes, I think. Like, I don't need to be like, in the Foo Fighters, even though that would be incredibly dope. You know what I mean? Right, right. But then Dave Grohl is probably like, yeah, but I still need it, you know? I mean, like, even all those people are still shooting even further. Yeah, but no, that's awesome. Animal. And I can't wait to hear. Hear the album. I Know, I just looking at your website, you know how many shows but you hoping to tour, the album comes out. I'm hoping to, but like you know, on topic financially, like I, you know, just being a 30 year old guy, I need to, it needs to make sense financially. Like I don't need to make money, I just need to not lose money. Right, right. You know what I mean? Like this, this era cost me money. This era of like living at my parents house and like not caring if I lose money and you know what I mean, like that is kind

38:03 of over in my life. So I'm just, you know, I, I am looking for an agent right now and management. I'd like to get like that sort of thing going and I would love to get on the road. I don't have any tours right now, but I have some stuff like locally in Southern California and in la, like for the album release, like set up and all that and that. Cool. But yeah, I just like I did DIY touring for like 10 years. Like I simply, in the year of our good Lord 2024, I don't think that I can DIY tour anymore. Right. No, I, I feel you on that, dude. Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Jon, for doing this, man. I have one more quick question for you. I want to know if you have any advice to aspiring artists.

38:57 I would say when you're making stuff, if it's not coming out naturally, put the guitar down and try again another time. Like you cannot force it when you're creating stuff or else you are just gonna hate it. And you have to like it, you have to believe in it to push it. And also just like, I don't know, maybe I'm saying this out loud for my own affirmation, but don't stop. You know what I mean? If you have a dream, like you have to keep going and you know they say it takes like 10 years to become an overnight success, so.

39:39 Bringing it backward, bringing it backward, bringing it backward, bringing it backward, bringing it backward, bringing it backward.