Interview with Vatican

What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Mike sugars of the band Vatican over zoom video. Mike was born and raised in Indiana, and he talks about how he got into music around the time guitar hero came out. He started to get into more heavy, heavy sounding bands like evergreen terrace and as laid dying around the same time, he started going to his first like hardcore shows and immediately knew that's what he wanted to be doing. So when he'd get home from school in like 11th grade, he'd get home from school and go in his garage, just turn up some heavy music and try to sing along his loud. 1 (2m 1s): As he could. After doing that for a bedtime, he found some other guys and started his first band. He talked about the very first show they played. He eventually moved to Columbus, Ohio joined. Another band, did that for a while. And as that band was starting to dissolve around mid 2020, after the pandemic at hit, he thought he was going to just give up music and work a normal job. He ends up getting a call like two weeks later from Vatican asking him to join their band. They're already a bit established, but they needed a new singer. Mike went to Savannah, Georgia audition for the band and then became the new singer of Vatican. We talk about joining the band and how it was to play those initial shows, being the new singer, the new front guy, putting out the two song EAP they did in 2021 talked about the tour they're currently on and all about the new record, which is called ultra. 1 (2m 57s): You can watch the interview with Mike of on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It'd be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcasts, it would be amazing if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five star review. 4 (3m 20s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 1 (3m 26s): We're bringing it backwards with Vatican. Cool man. Awesome. Your, your mic, correct? 5 (3m 34s): Yes. Yes. And you are Adam 1 (3m 36s): You're just on Thomas's iPad. 5 (3m 39s): Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 1 (3m 40s): I was just making sure I'm like, that looks like him and, but sometimes yeah, I get myself confused. 5 (3m 45s): Yeah. We're we're on our way to the venue for our show tonight. And we're like kinda close, but it was just kinda like, I need a mobile option. That isn't my phone. So 1 (3m 57s): No, no, no. Cool, cool. Cool. I appreciate your time. Thank you 5 (4m 1s): Now. How are you? 1 (4m 2s): I'm great. I'm great. How are you? 5 (4m 4s): I'm doing pretty good. I woke up like an hour ago. We, we, our driver's side window of our van like fell last night just for no reason while I was driving. I was up till 5:00 AM trying to fix that. And I think it's just the motor for the electric window that just kind of went bad. So that's something we're going to have to take care of, 1 (4m 30s): Man. That's a bummer. 5 (4m 32s): Yeah, it is what it is. 1 (4m 36s): Wow. Where are you guys at right now? Like what city are you in? 5 (4m 39s): We are in Virginia Beach and tonight we play elevation 27. 1 (4m 44s): Oh, cool. Yeah. I'm seeing that now on your, on your tour schedule, that's rad. 5 (4m 48s): Yeah. I've never played the venue. So I'm still, I don't think I've been to Virginia Beach since like 2017, I think so I'm excited. 1 (4m 56s): Very cool, man. Very cool. Well, I'm, this is about you and your journey and music. And we'll talk about the band and the new record. 5 (5m 3s): Of course. Yeah. I, I am a, I don't know if I'm a wealth of information, but I definitely have info 1 (5m 10s): Rad. So the band started in Savannah, Georgia. Is that what I read? 5 (5m 15s): Yeah. Band started in Savannah, Georgia before I was ever in it. And that would be around like 2015 when the band started like first EPS and like for shows and stuff out of the way 1 (5m 28s): Here, did you end up joining the band? 5 (5m 30s): I ended up joining in the fall of 2020, and then like my first release with the band was in April of 2021. So I'm still, I'm still new to some people like even last night, whenever we were playing, we would. So we're on this tour with spite right now. And we did an off date headliner in south, South Carolina. And even there, I still had some people kind of like coming up to me and being, you know, like the old singer really liked him, but you know what I think I do like being in the band. I'm like, I've been here for a year and a half. 1 (6m 7s): No, that's I can imagine that being such a hard role to play, you know, you got to kind of come into a band that already had something going on a little bit and then you have to take the place. Not only you're new in this band, but you've got to be the front guy. Right. You gotta be the Saint, you're a sing. You gotta, you know, work the crowd. And if people are used to seeing someone else, they might be like, oh, well what, like what's going on? 5 (6m 28s): Right. Yeah. And you know, as with like any band, especially with the, with the front person of any band, it's always such like a big attachment thing for like the casual listener or people who are just diehards. So I was definitely nervous about that in particular. Like that's what, and I was very open about that with the other guys while I was doing it. I was just like, I hope people like me. I hope I don't. I hope I don't come in. And people are like, stewed ruined this band. You know, 1 (7m 3s): It's always going to be the back of your mind. 5 (7m 6s): I, 1 (7m 6s): I mean, not in any more, but when you first started, isn't what I meant. 5 (7m 9s): Yeah, definitely. When we first, when we first started with me in the band, I was worried about that a lot. I'm not really anymore. Actually. We did see one comment on lamb go a couple of weeks ago, someone was like a new vocalist. Sounds like he does vocal covers in his bedroom. The cool days of this band are done. And I just thought it was hilarious. 1 (7m 33s): That's good. At least you can laugh at it. That's funny. 5 (7m 37s): Yeah. I, at this point now, like, you know, some good time into it, I, I feel like I have ownership of my role in the band. So I'm like, I'm not really worried about it as much anymore. Yeah, 1 (7m 48s): For sure. Well, are you originally from Georgia as well? Are you from a different spot of the 5 (7m 53s): Country? Midwest boy. 1 (7m 56s): Are you biased? 5 (7m 57s): Born and raised Indianapolis, Indiana. And then I'm kind of running a circuit on Midwestern main cities right now. So I lived in Indianapolis. Then I lived in Columbus, Ohio for like 5, 5, 6 years now. I live in St. Louis, Missouri. 1 (8m 15s): Oh, wow. Okay. 5 (8m 16s): Yeah. Oh no, you go ahead. 1 (8m 20s): I was just gonna say so we'll well, how long were you in Andy or how long were you in Indiana. And then when did you move to a Columbus? 5 (8m 31s): I was in Indiana until I was like 23. 1 (8m 34s): So you spend the majority of your life there then? 5 (8m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. 1 (8m 38s): Stay on that for a second. So born and raised there. Talk to me about that a little bit. And then how did you get a music? 6 (8m 45s): This is your summer. That means six flags in the taste of an ice cold Coca-Cola we're talking thrilling coasters, delicious burgers, real moments together. And this Koch is summer refreshment when you need it most. 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So you can hop on another ride or race down a slide at the water park. This is your summer six flags and Coca Cola. Come make it yours. Visit six flags.com/coke to save up to $20 on passes. 5 (10m 15s): So I grew up in a town. So I say born and raised in Indianapolis, but really I grew up drips 30 minutes south of it, but I grew up in a town called Martinsville and it's, it's like a little rural community, but it's still technically considered a city. There's still like 20 some thousand people that live there. But there are a lot of, there's a lot of like rural county just around the city. So I had a decently sized high school. I graduated with a class of like 300 people. So it's like pretty big comparatively to some people. 5 (10m 56s): And whenever I was like in middle school, you know, guitar hero was starting to come out and stuff like that. So like that definitely was starting to like have a bit of an influence on me and things like typical things like Tony Hawk's pro skater and stuff like that. Like those, those kinds of soundtracks, like I was getting into. But particularly I remember my freshman year, I had, I had a science class with this dude, James, that was one grade above me. So he's a sophomore. And he saw that I was like listening to like some songs I was hearing from like the guitar hero track. 5 (11m 36s): Like one was like six by all their remains. And, and I liked that song. I didn't know any other songs by them or almost any other artists that was like even adjacent to them or anything. And he was just like, let me show you some stuff. So he showed me stuff like evergreen terrorists as laid dying that was brought under oath. We just start moving down the list of like a lot of big hitters for like 2007. And yeah, and I just kind of took off from there as lay dying was like my thing for many years at the time. And so it was like, bring me the horizon. 5 (12m 16s): Like, you know, when they were still screaming and stuff, I still like, I still like new bring me a lot, but, but like, particularly back then, I was like, this is the best <inaudible> and yeah, I was also getting into like some death course stuff, like white chapel, despise daikon through the eyes of the dead, to the abyss, stuff like that. So I was a little all over the, the spectrum of heavy music at the time. And I was just talking to someone last night, actually about how I miss that feeling that I didn't even know I had at the time of just taking anything and everything. 5 (12m 57s): I have no preconceived notion about a band or anything. It's just either, is it dope or is it not? Do I like it or do I, or do I not? So that, that was a super fun time. And it felt like my whole, like, I don't know, my whole world was just like constantly like budding with like new stuff I was getting into. And it was awesome. But then of course, like I was, I was like, particularly with like some of those bands, I was just like, dude, I want to do like, so I started going to like some of my first shows. 1 (13m 39s): Yeah. Who was it? I was going to ask you that. Go ahead. Sorry. As I cut you off, as you're answering the question, I was going to ask you, 5 (13m 48s): So one of the first big shows I ever saw in the genre, it was a mirror all shall perish wins a plague. I want to say suicide sound is on there, but I think that's wrong. I think I'm thinking of a suicide sounds barrier, dead tour, but the opener was the ghost inside on their first record. And I had no idea who they were or anything. So they, you know, they're playing fury in the fall and ones and I am just kind of like blown away. I'm like, whoa, what was that? And that was my first, like my first like core adjacent band and like the hardcore community that I would ever, that I had ever listened to. 5 (14m 34s): So from there I started like really digging in deeper and started finding things like misery signals, you know, other things that are adjacent to that even like shy, allude to list. I was already kind of there with evergreen terrace, but I just didn't know. So yeah, that was like my first big one. And at the time I was already way big into like, when's the plague all shall perish in the mirror. So I was like stoked and I just found this new band. And so, yeah, from there, I was like, you know what, I'm going to try this. I'm going to like, I guess I'm going to learn how to screen. And my dad had a separate garage unattached from our house. 5 (15m 15s): And in that garage, he, he really had it done up. It was a bar. It had like a surround sound entertainment system, all this stuff. And I would just go, I always had like an hour or two home alone after school. So I would close the garage stores. And I would just like put in music, like CDs that I own like, and it would be like things from like, as Lily dying to black Dalia to bring me the horizon a lot, a lot of just like seeing bands at the time. And I just taught myself how to scream. I started my first bands and then come like going into my junior year, the summer going between sophomore and junior years when I started started my first band and we played some shows, we were really bad. 5 (16m 10s): It was awesome. 1 (16m 13s): Really bad, but I must have burned it. Right. 5 (16m 18s): It was awesome. It was so cool. And I remember my first show is so funny. My first show I ever played, I played in front of like 300 people. It was this like, wow. It was, it was like a summer vacation has began like show of some sort that our guitar player Cole had a hand in putting on. And it was in the fairgrounds of the Martinsville. It was pretty close to the high school. So it was literally like everyone got out of school and the last day and just went to the fairgrounds. 1 (16m 54s): Oh, that's cool. 5 (16m 55s): Yeah, it was, it's kinda crazy. Like looking back because now, now that I know like how these things go and how hard it is to put people in a room just in general, I'm just like, how the fuck did you pull that off? Like, like, like you're a 17 year old kid and all of a sudden, like, you're just like, I'm just gonna do this thing. And like, hopefully people come and it's like a literal shit. Ton of people came and it was, and it was cool. Again, we were horrible. We were a bad band, but like there, there were other bands on it as well. And 1 (17m 34s): Or they like it as heavy as your band was or where you guys came at. Like, and then everyone else does not, is 5 (17m 41s): There was one a band that was like the kind of heavy along with us. But for the most part, it was like just some like typical like high school, like, I don't know, punk rock bands, you know, stuff like that. Also all, you know, probably pretty bad by comparison or whatever, but, but it was cool. Like, you know, my first show experience, I'm like, holy, is this, is this what it's like? And I'm like, no, that's not what it's like at all. 1 (18m 12s): So did you play in that band through high school? And then, like you said, at 23, you eventually moved to Columbus. Is that what was the reason? Or like, how did you get from then Indiana to Columbus and what was the reason behind that move? 5 (18m 25s): Right. So I played in that band for a little while. I probably played and played in it through my junior year. So like, I think it was just under a year. And from there I joined a different band and this was the, this was like the bands looking back from like, oh, this is the band that set me on the path kind of thing. I joined this band from Indianapolis called, they say Redeemer. And none of these guys went to my school. These were just people I had met through playing shows. So I joined this band, basically the team or I'm, or I'm replacing a singer and granted it's just local band thing, you know, whereas as it it's like, I replaced a band that had had experience on the road and stuff and already an established fan base, whereas locally it's just, you know, whatever. 5 (19m 18s): But 1 (19m 19s): Yeah, 5 (19m 20s): So I was in that band throughout my whole senior year, also pretty bad. But from there, the guys that were in that band with me went on to, it was called conquers, which then eventually became this called church town. And I mean, through all that, it's like where I got like my first like bits of touring experience, like doing like some Midwest stuff, some east coast stuff leave and did like a full us as conquers. 5 (20m 1s): I don't know if you're familiar with that band left behind, but we did like a full, like two months long us tour with them. And, and I was like, okay, okay, this is awesome. I'm like 21, 22. And then around 23. So moving to Ohio was kind of like an on the, on a whim decision because we like, a lot of us lived at our guitar player Nico's house. And like, we were just kind of chilling, but, and the way it works is basically everyone's getting raised split apart in this moving space. We're not going to live here anymore. Kind of thing. Our friend, Justin from Columbus comes over with Justin and my other friend, Jeff, they come over for a weekend just to casually kind of hang out. 5 (20m 49s): It's like a three hour drive. So like, you know, if you're down, you're down kind of thing. And Justin gets a call at maybe like 1130 at night. And basically the short of it is that five of these roommates are getting ready to move out. He has this essentially it's this house that is like band guy, frat house in a way 1 (21m 14s): That's 5 (21m 15s): Hand. And it's, and it's actually like a lot of the dudes from like the original attack attack lineup that were, that started this house. It's had a couple of rotations of different people that lived there. It was like dudes from attack attack, like Masa flames for today. Bear too. 1 (21m 35s): Yeah. 5 (21m 37s): Yeah. And, and it just kind of rotated over time until like, you know, guys stopped being broke or whatever the situation, 1 (21m 47s): If they started making a little money, they moved out and then another band type dude moved in. 5 (21m 53s): Yeah. The guys have moved on into the upper echelon. I can now afford more than $150 a month. Right. 1 (21m 60s): I got my own one, but I got my own studio air, one bedroom I'm outta here. 5 (22m 6s): Exactly. So like, you know, some guys are moving out and Justin comes back and see other room and he's just like, so I know you guys have like your own situation kind of going, and I know that's ending soon. Here's a thing that just happened. How do we feel about this? And just on a whim and like, you know, me and a couple other guys from church chunk, we moved over to Columbus, Ohio, and I loved it. And, you know, from there it was kinda like church Chung stopped being based in Indianapolis necessarily. 5 (22m 48s): Then he moved pretty close to Kentucky and everybody else was in Columbus. So from then on, we were just like, oh, we're church town from the Midwest. And you know, we went out and we toured as much as we could. And like, you know, we definitely like we're out there a lot. The band was never really big and we never really caught on with people. We were just trying to pretty much exist until people decided, okay, we're gonna care about them, but then pandemic hit. And during the pandemic, of course, you know, we're not doing anything. 5 (23m 28s): We're like prepping to like June of the release that we had just recorded in like 2019. And we're just that, and it took a little while for the record to actually come back to us. And during that time, Nico, he gets, he makes his way into a different band, a big time. So we're of course, like, dude, please go you've you've got your opportunity run with it. And I was like, okay, I think, I think I am out, you know, now I'm, you know, I'm older right now. 5 (24m 9s): I'm 29. So at the time I'm like 27, 28 and I'm like, okay, you got your shot. Like go like, and the rest of us will, we'll still play like when you, when we can, you know, but other than that, like I, I think, I think we've done our work here. So I was like, I'm just gonna get a job or something. And about two weeks later, that's when bad can reaches out to me. 1 (24m 37s): And 5 (24m 39s): Yeah. So it w it all lined up, you know, if they had reached out to me, you know, maybe even two or three weeks earlier, I may have been like, nah, we're still doing stuff. Just waiting on the next thing to come in, stuff like that. But it all just kinda, it just lined up perfectly. And then even whenever, like, I first like went down to Savannah to meet up with the band. It just clicked very much so. And it was like, yeah, we, we have a perfect fit here. Like, there's a, there's a great social dynamic. The songs sound cool with me on them. And you know, we were demoing new stuff at the same time too, which ended up becoming our EAP that came out last year, the little Tucson thing that we put out. 5 (25m 26s): And now, now it's now it's full. Like that'll, that'll come out in less than two weeks. 1 (25m 32s): Right? Yeah. That's incredible. Was it weird? Like, so when you joined the band, I mean, we talked a little bit about this in the beginning, like going in, and now you're the singer of a band that was already had some notoriety a little bit. What D where you seeing you having to sing those old songs in the beginning, or like invalid, do you have enough? You could probably weed out and just play your own music. And was it different? Like how, how does your style compare as far as writing style to the old singer? Or was that not even something you were thinking about? Just like, this is how I write songs and this is what they're going to sound like. 6 (26m 5s): Could we comply? This is your summer. That means six flags in the taste of an ice cold Coca-Cola, we're talking thrilling coasters, delicious burgers, real moments together. And this Coke is summer refreshment when you need it most. So you can hop on another ride or race down a slide at the waterpark, six flags, and Coca-Cola come make it yours. 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If you have the app, enjoy your free fries and drink. If you don't, you can't see me, but know that I'm shaking my head, but I'm at the time only at participating McDonald's by Lupin, temper, Davids, and McDonald's opera details, download and registration required. 5 (27m 37s): So I actually have a lot of fun singing the old songs. I think they're awesome songs. And, and that, that was like, one thing we talked about is like, you know, how much new stuff do we want to play? How much old stuff I was like, well, I actually want to play those. Cause I think those songs bang. And, 1 (27m 53s): And you said you enjoyed playing the old songs. Cause I said like, when you go into writing that, you know, the EAP, the couple of songs that you put out and the, the new record, like w when you're writing the songs or even having to sing the old songs, were you taking any of that? And like, can, like, I guess, were you even trying to where you just like, okay, these are my new songs, and these are the songs that this is how they're going to go. Like, not even really worrying about what the old guy did prior to that, or how, I guess how you fit within the band. 5 (28m 26s): Yeah. So going, yeah. Going in with any new songs, I, at first, like, was really like, concerned with like, like making the bands, like still feel like it had the same identity. So like, I think initially I was getting like a little scared and like, kind of writing like that, but then Jose and our drummer was like, Hey man, just do your thing. Like we picked you because we, like, you just don't like, he was like, treat this as a new band that never existed before you. And I was like, cool. 1 (29m 1s): So you kind of gave you like a co C kind of co-sign on the fact that you should just do what you did and they wanted you for a reason, obviously. 5 (29m 8s): Yeah. So I just took it and I ran with it and I did my own thing and that, you know, so whenever the EAP came out as like, yeah, I'm happy with this, this, this feels like me kind of thing. And especially on the new record, even like, I, like, I, I know my style and kind of like what I like and like, yeah, I definitely was pretty, like, just what's the word I'm looking for. I was pretty shameless and just being like fully myself and like what I had done before, but like with this band, but it's like a totally new coat of paint because this band doesn't sound like my old bands. 5 (29m 53s): And even that was like challenging. And like, I had to definitely kind of go in the trenches a little bit to make sure the songs came out like really good that my performance was good. All that stuff. 1 (30m 6s): When you're, when you're writing the record, like, it sounds like, okay, you were in a band and then that band was kind of, you know, dissolving so to speak. And then you joined this band, like in the midst of COVID, right. You joined the band in 2020. 5 (30m 19s): Yup. 1 (30m 19s): Was that kind of a weird place to be? And like, once you enter the band, like what, stuff's still kind of up in the air as far as like, when you're going to even be able to play shows and with that, do you, is that when you go right into writing the, the couple of songs that you put out last year? 5 (30m 36s): Yes. It w it was a little weird that, you know, I joined the band, you know, the world is still not having shows at the point. So I'm kind of joining, not necessarily knowing what I'm going to get myself into. It is a joining with the pretense that we will tour a lot in theory. Right. And, and from there, you know, we, we did the two songs and that was like, really just, I went down to Savannah, we tracked it with our friend, pat, who, the band that like already, like previously had a relationship. Like he tracks the last, like a couple of releases the band had done. 5 (31m 16s): And then we sent that off to our producer, Randy, who now has done our call full length. Like we went in and recorded it with him and everything. But at that point, even like, when we went and recorded the full length, I had never even played a show with the band. 1 (31m 31s): Oh, wow. 5 (31m 32s): So it's like, you know, the band gets a, a two song release with me on it. Can't go play shows with it at the time. And we're like, okay, judging by the internet. It seems like people like this, so we're gonna go do our full length. We go to the studio, we're there for a month. And even still, there were like, okay, we have shows books. And, and we also like, had, had our tour confirmed that we did, you know, back then this past November where like, things are booked in theory, we're going to show up and they're going to be shows that are played. 5 (32m 15s): So, but in a way, like, that's kind of, that was kind of freeing, at least for me. And like trying to store my head was that on writing everything. Cause I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna, like, I'm just gonna put my, my whole ass into it and like really try and make the best thing I think I possibly can right away, right away. I fear everything that flies. I'm sorry if it has wings. I, I just, not, for me, Birds flies floss. 5 (32m 56s): I'm good. But so I really just kind of put my whole self into it and was like, I don't know if I'll see any return on this. I don't know if anyone's going to care. I don't know if I'll ever get to play it live, but I'm going to do it. And I, I really think that like what came out because of that, I don't know necessarily what that mindset like made it like as awesome as I think for accurate is, but I D I definitely think it helped me cause everyone was pretty stressed. It's a very stressful time to trying to record a record and that, that, and that goes for like every member of the band, especially like, you know, like we, we write some like pretty technical stuff. 5 (33m 43s): And like when you're watching someone just try and nail this one little, little thing over and over and over again for hours, and it's just not happening. And you just, you're watching them have an internal melded on while trying to play cool. Like this sucks. 1 (34m 2s): Yeah. I can feel that for sure. For sure. I mean, the guy, as long as you guys have put out are awesome. I really like it. Yeah. No, it's really good. It's really, really good. And tell me about the record, like, were these lyrics and everything you had prior to going in and joining this band, are these songs that maybe would have landed somewhere else if you weren't asked to, to play with these guys or is it all fresh? 5 (34m 27s): A lot of it's pretty fresh. There's some things that are, I have, like, you know, in my notes app, I have just like random, like things I've jotted down over time. Sometimes something just kind of comes to me and I just write it down real quick. No idea what it's going to be for later, but I'm just like, I like this as it is on its own, we'll come back to it kind of thing. And it's always just like, like 10 words, tops, maybe. So like some, some things like that definitely made it in. And I was able to like, you know, really form like a fully thought out song from it. But for the most part, it was all pretty fresh. 5 (35m 9s): And at the time when we were ever, we were recording, I was also still working remote from my job at a car insurance company. So I was, yeah, I was waking up and working like 8:00 AM getting off at like four and then writing and then like vocal sessions. So it was kind of like, you know, just a fever dream. Cause like I'm working, working this, you know, horrible job. I hate blah, blah, blah, while really I'm committing time staff that I'm writing while I'm working. 5 (35m 49s): And then, you know, after that's over, I still continue writing. Then I go in for the vocal session and it's like, I'm doing this like every single day, one song at a time. And so there, there are some songs where it's like, yeah, maybe we finish half the song this day, come back in, we'll finish the other half tomorrow. Or sometimes I just get the whole song in one day and we're just like, all right, let's go for it. And we get it all done. And at the end of the night, you know, it's like 1:00 AM. And I'm like, how did I do all of this in one day? This sucks. 1 (36m 25s): So 5 (36m 25s): By the time it was over, I was like, oh my, oh my God. 1 (36m 29s): Yeah. It must have been a lie. I mean, to work a job of eight hours and then get off and then try to go in and track. But I mean, it sounds like it paid off and you guys are on the road now, which is huge. 5 (36m 40s): Yeah. Yeah. And this store is amazing. You know, this is easily the biggest and best tour that we've ever done. And you know, I'm very thankful to our headliner for being dope and, and bringing, you know, an awesome crowd because, you know, we come into this and like, we're, we still feel like we're like a pretty small band. And like we maybe account for like 10% of the attendance, you know what I mean? So to us, we're just like, wow, like where we're able to like really get in front of people who just wouldn't find us, you know, on their own, or maybe wouldn't find us right now on their own. 5 (37m 25s): So, and, and that's awesome. And it just, it works out for us too. Cause the records coming out while we're on the store, no, I'm just like, please buy it, you know? 1 (37m 37s): Yeah. Shameless plug, please buy it. 5 (37m 45s): Like if you care at all about this, like please, I would love to have some money. That'd be awesome. 1 (37m 54s): That's funny. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really, really appreciate your time. 5 (37m 60s): Yeah, of course. Thanks for, thanks for having me. 1 (38m 2s): Yeah, of course. I know you have a show later, but I'm curious. So I want to get, let you rest up, especially after staying up all night, trying to fix a window, but I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists. 5 (38m 17s): My biggest piece of advice, especially as someone who is edging 30 in this and only learning this. Now you should detach yourself from any kind of monetary expectation about what's going to happen with your band or your ability to make money with it. And really just go full in on trying to make something that you really, really care about. And really, really like. And even if that means just working on it for over a year and a half and not show showing to anyone or at least not showing everyone do that. 5 (38m 58s): Because I think now in my own current experience, I'm seeing we, the whole band, we're all seeing more return when we just let go of it. And now things are actually starting to work for us because it's just, it's just all of us and all of what we have and, and people have to take it or leave it. Right. But like, but it feels like we're seeing more return than we ever did when we just let go of wanting it so bad. So just care about what you make and really like it really, really liking it before you put it out and put, put your, put your heart in it. 5 (39m 43s): You know, it sounds kind of sounds kind of a cliche, but I guess it's cliche because it's true for so many people.